John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation.......
Mile High Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Good post. I'm going to be a little bit more critical and say he should be ready to go by the Houston game (evaluate that is). Home opener, Throwbacks the whole nine yards. He will be ready.
gregkash Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Good post. I'm going to be a little bit more critical and say he should be ready to go by the Houston game (evaluate that is). Home opener, Throwbacks the whole nine yards. He will be ready. 401133[/snapback] I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf.
Brandon Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Actually, when you consider that Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions as a rookie, a final evaluation of Losman is probably won't be possible for a couple of years. No one wants to hear that, but its the truth.
Mile High Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf. 401135[/snapback] Ryan Leaf lol.. Remember that dude yelling at the reporter in the locker romm with Seau breaking it up. "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE ALRIGHT"! What a weiner. I think that JP will be fine and the thing with preseason is that we only see about 1/10000 th of the playbook and I'm sure they have plenty up their sleeves. I think JP is tough mentally, physically and emotionally things that alot of people overlook. He just has to find his comfort level, that's all.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I think you meant Woodbury, not Goldsberry. But good points otherwise.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] I also think you mean Woodbury not Goldsberry, but outside of this I agree with your assessment. I also agree that it will probably take the preseason and maybe 3 regular season games to draw some conclusion to be acted upon (unless injury dictates action for us). Yet my conclusion may differ from yours in while I agree that JP is cetainly the Bills QB of the future. in terms of the game the future is now for me. If (and I mean IF) TC/MM make a judgment that we have a better chance getting a W sitting JP down and going with Holcomb at some point I say do this. In the end if JP is such a weak personality that he is going to fold up an lose confidence if he gets benched then he does in fact have the depth and personality (or lack tehreof) of A Ryan Leaf and the quicker we move on the better. I think he took well to some attitude adjustment which MM did last year. he admitted that he was not prepared to play when MM suddenly threw him to the sharks mopping up against NE and he took the lesson that he must prepare and that anytime you put on the uniform you must be prepared to play. I hope the Bills manage JPs development with even more success than Pitts achieved with RoboQB last year. However, though JP is going to need time to learn the game. results are the ultimate measure. If we start out as badly as last year we have seem that even with an 0-4 start its not to late to be in the hunt for a playoff spot in game 16. The thing which most speaks in JPs favor is that one can achieve this even with adequate (at best) QB play, but if the situation dictates it I'm fine with JP sitting down and learning if we feel Holcomb provides a better shot at a W.
John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2005 Author Posted August 7, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it......
bb63 Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it...... 401185[/snapback] I think your comments are right on the mark. To expect JP to come out on fire and burn the barn down right away is not reallistic and unlikely. I saw some good things out of JP in friday nights scrimmage, and some not so good.That what I expected. I think that he showed enough that he will eventually be able to bring the barn down with fire and brimestone.
richNjoisy Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 good post John What I want to see is steady improvement. The fun part of this is, IMO, JP is already doing better than I expected he would. Last yr, vs Denver, and in his VERY few appearances, he was able to move the team (not every time but BETTER than every other time). Friday, he had way more good moments than bad and was able to turn several 3rd downs into 1st downs with his arm. Next up: The colts. Steady improvement JP, Steady. -RnJ
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) 401131[/snapback] I have no idea if that would have been completed or not had Evans not been held. I could not possibly tell from watching it on TV what would have happened. You could also pose the question: if the defender had held on to that pick JP threw and went the distance as clearly he would have but for the drop, would the evening have been a disaster for JP? Back to the Evans play, there were referees there and the hold looked obvious and yet was not called. Why? Two possibilities: 1. They flat out missed the call. 2. The ball was so badly overthrown that the ref, rightly or wrongly, determined it to be "uncatchable". From my vantage point on the couch, I couldn't tell. I can't see alternative realities very well either so I can't say the pass would have been on the money, short, high, left, right or dropped. I do know the hold wasn't dramatic, just the typical back arm around the waist. Lee wasn't even able to get a hand on the ball. Does that mean it was way off? Don't know but by the same token, there is just as little evidence that the pass would have been completed but for the hold. The fate of that play, I'm afraid, will remain a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. He had a decent outing, nothing to rave about or to weep about. It was neither the best of times, nor the worst of times.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I have no idea if that would have been completed or not had Evans not been held. I could not possibly tell from watching it on TV what would have happened. You could also pose the question: if the defender had held on to that pick JP threw and went the distance as clearly he would have but for the drop, would the evening have been a disaster for JP? Back to the Evans play, there were referees there and the hold looked obvious and yet was not called. Why? Two possibilities: 1. They flat out missed the call. 2. The ball was so badly overthrown that the ref, rightly or wrongly, determined it to be "uncatchable". From my vantage point on the couch, I couldn't tell. I can't see alternative realities very well either so I can't say the pass would have been on the money, short, high, left, right or dropped. I do know the hold wasn't dramatic, just the typical back arm around the waist. Lee wasn't even able to get a hand on the ball. Does that mean it was way off? Don't know but by the same token, there is just as little evidence that the pass would have been completed but for the hold. The fate of that play, I'm afraid, will remain a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. He had a decent outing, nothing to rave about or to weep about. It was neither the best of times, nor the worst of times. That play was at the very least holding, which is 5 yards, 1st down, and no charged incompletion. Probably wouldn't have been called PI because the holding slowed Lee down and thus made him getting to the ball less likely. But the point with calling it an "almost TD" is to counter those who said he "almost" had an INT. We'll never know, but there WAS illegal contact on that play.
34-78-83 Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I just got through watching the 1st 3 series on Offense and I gotta say I'm very happy with how JP played. He got rid of the ball ontime, made plays on 3rd down, used his feet to get out of trouble, and threw the ball well for the most part. As someone else already stated somewhere I can see 2 facets of QB play that didn't even exist here since since Flutie (sans the weak arm). Play design is going to be so much more wide open now and defenses are really going to have to stay honest because JP can break contain. To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game.
KRT88 Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I'd be shocked if people actual expect JP to be great right away. Like so many young QB, we have to face the fact that he is gonna play like crap from time to time. he will throw the ball where he shouldn't, and make dump mistakes. It's part of learning how to play that position against players faster than we can imagine. However, we need to look and see if he is not repeating the same mistakes. If he can progress, week to week and learn from his mistakes then we should stick with him, winning or losing. I think we do him more damage if we pull him but that why the coach make tons of money. Furthermore, the season's success doesn't rest on his shoulders, it rests in the hands of everyone working together as a team.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game. It largely depends on your preconceptions of JP. Those who don't/didn't like him, will focus more on the negative. But looking at objective measures like a 60% completion percentage, no sacks, moving well in the pocket, and a few mental mistakes that didn't end up hurting the team and are learning points, you can't say he "struggled" or "looked bad." Sure there's room for improvement since he missed 4 passes and almost got picked, but at this early stage, that's like expecting him to be Montana right out of the gate.
Zona Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] How DARE you be an optimist! You cant come in here and talk about giving a guy a chance. What are you thinking? For the record, I am willing to give the guy a couple years to learn the job. before making a decision. However, I think we will know well before that. I am on record here, making big predictions about JP's future in Buffalo.
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 That play was at the very least holding, which is 5 yards, 1st down, and no charged incompletion. Probably wouldn't have been called PI because the holding slowed Lee down and thus made him getting to the ball less likely. But the point with calling it an "almost TD" is to counter those who said he "almost" had an INT. We'll never know, but there WAS illegal contact on that play. 401264[/snapback] Sure there was illegal contact but I don't see that as evidence of JP's coming greatness anymore than I see that pick he almost threw as reason enough to cancel my season tickets. I think its holding if it occurs before the ball is thrown and if the contact happens while it is in the air, it is PI. This occurred while the ball was in the air so my understanding is that it would be PI unless it was uncatchable or contact that was "incidental" though I think they have moved away from that "incidental" distinction in recent years.
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 It largely depends on your preconceptions of JP. Those who don't/didn't like him, will focus more on the negative. But looking at objective measures like a 60% completion percentage, no sacks, moving well in the pocket, and a few mental mistakes that didn't end up hurting the team and are learning points, you can't say he "struggled" or "looked bad." Sure there's room for improvement since he missed 4 passes and almost got picked, but at this early stage, that's like expecting him to be Montana right out of the gate. 401271[/snapback] I wouldn't give him credit for "making no mistakes that hurt the team" based on a defender dropping an easy pick that would have been six points the other way.
eventualchamps Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I just got through watching the 1st 3 series on Offense and I gotta say I'm very happy with how JP played. He got rid of the ball ontime, made plays on 3rd down, used his feet to get out of trouble, and threw the ball well for the most part. As someone else already stated somewhere I can see 2 facets of QB play that didn't even exist here since since Flutie (sans the weak arm). Play design is going to be so much more wide open now and defenses are really going to have to stay honest because JP can break contain. To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game. 401265[/snapback] I couldn't agree more. I just watched his play again and he did not miss a single pass in that first series. His only misques that I saw were: 1 underthrown pass, 1 overthrown pass and a pass that almost got picked. He did have one incompletion that would have been pass interference (the GB defender was draped all over him - although the announcer said that it was OK because he wasn't holding his jersey ). The pass where he tried to hit Josh in the endzone - guaranteed that if it was a regular season game and he saw that much green open in front of him....he would have ran it in. His play fakes were excellent as well. Sorry to the naysayers but his performance was good to very good. As a matter of fact, if we are going to look at the other QB performances in preseason so far, he's doing better than Peyton and Michael Vick. If he improves even slightly in the next few games, he will be more than ready for the season.
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