Coy Wire?

[stevewin]

Nice posting, but I don't see too many Coy Wire fans around here at all. Most everyone agrees that he sucks.

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More likely that they've been beat into submission

 

Believe me - there's still plenty out there - although I do think many who used to take a position contrary to mine as recently as last year have had a change of heart. Before that it was hard to find anyone willing to say anything negative about him. Thus my 'comprehensive' reply - I learned long ago that there was always some reply with another excuse. I've debated this since he was a rookie - out of habit now I feel compelled to try and leave no excuse unturned.

[ThePebble19]

Actually, his natural position is Running Back...He was a RB in High School and the first two years of college before they switched him to LB...but its kind of a moot point. I like Coy a lot, I think he is a great athlete, and a good football player, not to mention a hell of a guy away from the game, 1 on 1. But, I also agree with most everything that has been posted here. He has been a Bill for 3 years, going on 4 years and has not improved. He still continues to make key mistakes at the wrong times, and at this point, I just don't see him getting off of special teams.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

FFS - points taken, but we still can agree to disagree on the motivation of the Bills brass drafting Wire and their intentions of how to use him.  IMO he was drafted *absolutely* to be a safety - they honestly thought he could make the transition from linebacker to saftey a la Archleta.  It was simply a failed experiment.  I don't think there's any way in the world that you draft someone in the 3rd round to be nothing but a ST player!  True they may not have planned on putting him in as a starter right away - and being pressed into the role of a starter for an entire rookie season (which you want to characterize as 'mismanagement') may help explain some of his putrid performance that year (which I still contend was based more on lack of ability than 'unfamiliar position' - it does boil down to running and tackling after all) - if anything it should have made him a *better* player!!!  What better way to become a better player and learn a position than playing the position as a starter for an entire year?  But he simply never became a good player!  Even after sitting behind Milloy and benefitting from his tutelage for *another* year he still couldn't make plays!  What more preparation/experience/'managment' does a player need??  That is why I think it is a cop out to blame it on a new position or coaching - he had years of various exposure and unbelievable opportunity to show he could play and he never did.  Because - IMO - it is not about coaching or position - it is simply about his physical ability (lack thereof) to perform at this level.

 

And sorry - you will *never* convince me that the complete failure to properly execute that blocked kick in the CINN game is anyone's fault than his own.  Please - they teach that in high school.  And it is made even more incredulous when people want to paint him to be a ST ace - and yet you want me to believe that he is so ignorant of ST fundamentals he has no clue what to do when told to block a kick?  I can guarantee you if it was Chris Watson who made the same stupid play no one would be blaming GW for it now.

I never have faulted him for not being Tasker - I fault those who have tried to build him up into being another Tasker - when he is far from it -  never has been, never will be.

 

I guess the net of it is that my strong feelings on this - the thing that drives me crazy - are so many people saying for so long how good he was - when I, week after week after week, saw with my own eyes the exact opposite.  I have nothing personal against him, like I said originally - I just have never seen a player who was so bad get such a free pass for so long.  It is truly an aberration unlike anything I've ever seen as a Bills fan.

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First many of your points are well taken as i agree with them. I am not arguing that Wire was a deadlock certainty to become even an adequate player.

 

Before we agree to disagree lets at least agree about what we are disagreeing about.

 

I never argued Wire waI sm merely arguing that right from the start (and even a bit before as I think I advocated that an ST focus was the most likely avenue toward him being a contributor) I thought an ST focus was the best bet for a player with his skill set. He was certainly no stone cold certainty to be an ST great. In fact, i felt that for Wire to become even remotely as valuable as Tasker, he needed to develop some value to the return team which Tasker provided with the ball skills he developed as a WR. I auggested something like developing his skills to try to become some blocker extraordinaire. He never was remotely used in this manner. I don't think anyone could argue he had any ST achivements or demonstrated ability because he did not, Merely that this was his best shot at being a contributor was if he has an ST focus, Anyone who argued that safety play was the best course for him was obviously wrong. I don't remember anyone declaring him a bust right from the start or even much of a reach as a 3rd round choicewhen he was drafted. Did you? I'm not arguing that he was a good pick to become a safety

[jarthur31]

He is there and has added more bulk to the upper half of his body.

He is still a good Special teams guy.

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That's not enough to keep a guy on the roster when you could have somebody else do the same and play a whole lot better.

 

I just wonder what "Stanford" he went to becuz he looks very lost out there on the field.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

First many of your points are well taken as i agree with them. I am not arguing that Wire was a deadlock certainty to become even an adequate player.

 

Before we agree to disagree lets at least agree about what we are disagreeing about. 

 

I never argued Wire waI sm merely arguing that right from the start (and even a bit before as I think I advocated that an ST focus was the most likely avenue toward him being a contributor) I thought an ST focus was the best bet for a player with his skill set. He was certainly no stone cold certainty to be an ST great. In fact, i felt that for Wire to become even remotely as valuable as Tasker, he needed to develop some value to the return team which Tasker provided with the ball skills he developed as a WR.  I auggested something like developing his skills to try to become some blocker extraordinaire. He never was remotely used in this manner.  I don't think anyone could argue he had any ST achivements or demonstrated ability because he did not, Merely that this was his best shot at being a contributor was if he has an ST focus,  Anyone who argued that safety play was the best course for him was obviously wrong. I don't remember anyone declaring him a bust right from the start or even much of a reach as a 3rd round choicewhen he was drafted. Did you? I'm not arguing that he was a good pick to become a safety

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Sorry I chopped this off hitting the wrong key.

 

The basic points are:

 

1. I think the best shot to contribute Wire had was on ST because he never struck me as a good safety. I think we agree on this so I'm not sure where we agree to disagree.

 

2. we do seem to disagree on the value of ST to the team. I can't see how anyone can have witnessed the career of Steve Tasker and used the phrase "just" am ST player. Clearly no one has ever been as good as the best ST player, but I think a player if he made half the contribution to a team Tasker made to the Bills I would be pleased to have him. If one looks at the positive contribution that McGee made to this team last year or the negative impacts of the ST failures of Lindell and I do simply disagree with you if you feel good ST play and players are not flat out essential to a team.

 

As one of the biggest proponents on TSW that Wire was improperly managed to try to put him into a position he could not play well and not that he was great at ST but he had a better shot there than at safety I'm not sure where we disagree.

 

Perhaps you want to say and argue that Wire was a completely flawed choice in round 3 or at all. I certainly am no defender of GW and would not defend him on this point though I do not remember you or others stridently making this point at the time or using anything more than 20/20 hindsight.

 

As far as the punt. Wire screwed up big time i do not argue he did not, However we dod disagree if you feel that Wire screwing up also absolves the ST coordinator from making an unnecesary call asking Wire to block a punt when we had a seven point lead. The penalty gave the Bengals the ball in Bills territory and they scored to put it in OT. It was an unecesary call and GW should have overuled the coordinator when he asked if we should go for it. I don;t see why you want to let the coaching staff completely off the hook on this one for the call even if you want to blame Wire for not doing something you feel he should have learned in HS.

 

The coaches blew the call and like it or not they need to make calls their players can perform and teach them how to do it of they can't. Is Wire an ST stud? No Would he have been a better player with April teaching him instead of GWs buddy? Yes. Would Wire have become an ST stud with better teaching? Maybe I do not know.

[stevewin]

FFS - I simply think the Bills drafted him to be a safety - and he never panned out there. I don't fault the pick - but I think if a pick doesn't work out you have to move on.

 

I do not put the same emphasis on his potential ST contributions as you do. I don't think it is realistic to think that coaching staffs look at 3rd round draft picks and say "Well - he sucks at the position we drafted him to play - but if we put a lot of time and effort into him and manage his career carefully we can make him a good ST player!". I think if you are drafted that high - you are expected to be able to play in the offense/defense. But if you can't cut it on offense/defense you are not kept around for 3 years to mold into a decent ST player. I think most ST studs are late round picks or UFAs anyway who just have that innate ability and attitude to be a monster on STs - they are not carefully molded/managed for years to become that.

 

This actually is where we differ. Maybe he could have been a better ST player if more time was spent with him on that - but I could care less. I don't think he could have been 'Tasker-like' even if that was done - so for me it's a moot point. With more starters playing on STs why do we need one dimensional ST players anyway? My emphasis is on his play at safety, not ST. If he can't play safety - then bring in someone who can contribute on STs AND play competently on offense/defense. Any benefit from Wire's contribution on ST does not neutralize his liability at safety IMO.

 

And for the punt thing - bad call or not - players on the field have to execute - regardless of what the play is that is sent in.