Reuben Gant Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Plain Dealer is reporting that the 14 Marines were in an amphibious vehicle. Plain Dealer I am shaking my head, and also looking for a list of casualties names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 It's quite simple if you have an honest desire to understand it: A) The welfare states of the Middle East have been breeding idle youth for many years, few of whom even consider a "career" or "vocation". Instead these oil welfare states bring in foreigners who do most of the actual work performed in these countries.The idle instead sit around listening to the radical Wahabi brainwashing that says they have forever been the red-headed stepchildren o fthe world and only through a strictly Wahabi interpretation of Islam can they ever rise to the level of grreatness they deserve. B) The Wahabs are able to play out their fantasy world in much of Saudi Arabia and after the Soviet abandonment of Afghanistan they get to play Wahabi full time and subjugate all women in a return to the 7th Century, wiping out the huge gains even Afghani women had made against the Koran over the course of history. C) Gaining full control of Saudi Arabia would require getting rid of other military presence in the region, hence the Wahabs adopt the "all infidels must leave or soil", simply a necessity in their quest to conquer the Saudi Royal family. D) Wahabs attack us on our own soil in order to convince the weakest members of our society that we should "leave the Middle East" to appease the Wahabs. E) Our administration moves the fight from our soil and citizens to the Middle East. F) The weakest in our society buy into the Wahabi con. And history repeats itself just as it did when Hitler conned the weakest in the West before his run at the same goal the Wahabs have- imposing their rule upon their neighbors and then beyond. 397922[/snapback] Administration policy on Iraq as it relates to the GWOT is to fight the Wahhabists? Thanks for demonstrating so conclusively that it's possible to support the invasion of Iraq and still not have a !@#$ing clue as to why it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 What a fun thread! Sure your are haven't been bit by this bug? This is a classic example... I live amongst this virus daily: Federal bureaucrat virus: Divides your hard disk into hundreds of little units, each of which do practically nothing, but all of which claim to be the most important part of the computer. 397926[/snapback] Isn't it? Nope, haven't been bitten by the bug, but daily deal with many who have. I'm unfortunately sitting in a spot where a lot of this stuff comes together - much like a train wreck. We have to sort through the hundreds of little units. And make a complete picture out of them. So, don't have the luxury of being compartmentalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Not that I can't appreciate the Village Idiot approach, but to come into a string without a single fact and spouting off a completely unsupported opinion is a lot easier to digest if the topic is something inane like football- it's a lot less palatable when it's about our country, something others of us still respect. 397918[/snapback] Are you out of your mind? It's a well known fact that BiB works in this arena on a daily basis - it's how he puts food on the table and we're damn lucky to have HIM doing it as well as sharing his insight. Jesus Kurt, get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I fully understand that GhBib and that is what I don't like. Like waves crashing on the beach you can always create order out of what appears to be disorder. Is it ALL REALLY necessary? And... I am just poking fun at you above... Don't take it personal. 397927[/snapback] Something is necessary, EII. Unfortunately the world has become a pretty complicated place. He who wields influence, one way or the other has shifted dramatically over the last 15 years. We're about the only ones left from back then who still does. People forget, for example, that not only we and the USSR but the entire world was aligned in some form or fashion according to the cold war. When the Soviet Union collapsed, it created many voids and opportunities - and also made the world tremendously more complex. How many of our fellow PPP policy experts understand where certain middle eastern policies are effected, more or less as a compromise, with the PRC in mind? How many have a clue whatsoever as to the effects that the collapse of the USSR had on Africa? What are the geo-political significances right now of relations with both north and south Korea in 2005 as opposed to 1985? How does that affect our relationships with our European allies? Concentrating on Europe, for a moment, what was the percentage of Muslim imigrants amongst the populations in 1990 vs the percentages today? Where did they go? Where did they come from? How does this affect the internal processes of those countries? The list goes on and on. Somewhere, somehow all these questions and what ifs need to be balanced, thought about, analyzed and acted upon. Sometimes the solution sets are not very attractive - and don't play well in a media geared for sensationalism over rationality. Even sticking with national security, here on the home front, the same issues and problems are ever at play. Acceptable risk must be balanced against public perceptions and further balanced against what the nation can withstand and what it can not. Decisions are made accordingly, and there are never any made without one hell of a dog fight. then, to compound and complicate matters, the logical, practical and best courses of action almost NEVER look good in a 30 second soundbite, and could probably be torn to shreds by being misrepresented on your average "credible news magazine", whether it be on TV or in print. Then, once again you have a government in reacton mode when they should be spending their time addressing the problems. Oh, people continue to march and continue to address the problems. There are literally thousands of people who do the work as best they can no matter who is in charge, but when it comes time to the "big decisions", the leadership is too busy weighing what needs to get done vs. what will be accepted by all parties listed above to make a timely call. I'm not talking about issues that need to be addressed in a matter of moments or hours, I'm referring to the ones that once the call is made, take months or years to effect. If it takes a year to make the call, then by the time one sees the results, the situation has probably changed again. So, I understand and agree with those who are frustrated by what they view as inactions. I understand and agree with those who view things as the wrong actions. I understand and agree with those who view things as the right actions. But, when it comes to matters as serious as this, one should take pause, if not a deep breath, and think about it. And I'm not exagerating when I say the ultimate survival of our civilization and way of life (emphasis on way of life, as that is what concerns the average American or European) depends on our true understanding of things and in making the right decisions for our collective future. We have in part, created our own monster and at the same time have had monsters we never thought about show up at the door. Either way, we have to deal with the monsters. How they got there is pretty well immaterial. But, that would require all sides of the argument to learn about the other sides, and actually attempt to understand the situations at hand. Sadly, that ain't going to happen here, nor is it likely to happen anywhere. Hell, you're own Congress works against you every day. Kumbaya is never going to happen. Never has, never will. Check out the last 3,000 years of human history. Get along with who you can now, make the compromises you have to, make the enemies you need to. But, bottom line, if you want to have what you have now - this country is going to have to do some unpopular and often pretty ugly things. That's just the way it is. Sorry for the FFS plus post, but if anyone actually read this far - I just felt like saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 It's a well known fact that BiB works in this arena on a daily basis - it's how he puts food on the table and we're damn lucky to have HIM doing it as well as sharing his insight. 398345[/snapback] Yum. I smell grouper sammiches. BTW, do we know if Tenny survive his dioxin laden trip to Kiev? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Yum. I smell grouper sammiches. BTW, do we know if Tenny survive his dioxin laden trip to Kiev? 398746[/snapback] He seems to have lost his grip on email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Something is necessary, EII. Unfortunately the world has become a pretty complicated place. He who wields influence, one way or the other has shifted dramatically over the last 15 years. We're about the only ones left from back then who still does. People forget, for example, that not only we and the USSR but the entire world was aligned in some form or fashion according to the cold war. When the Soviet Union collapsed, it created many voids and opportunities - and also made the world tremendously more complex. How many of our fellow PPP policy experts understand where certain middle eastern policies are effected, more or less as a compromise, with the PRC in mind? How many have a clue whatsoever as to the effects that the collapse of the USSR had on Africa? What are the geo-political significances right now of relations with both north and south Korea in 2005 as opposed to 1985? How does that affect our relationships with our European allies? Concentrating on Europe, for a moment, what was the percentage of Muslim imigrants amongst the populations in 1990 vs the percentages today? Where did they go? Where did they come from? How does this affect the internal processes of those countries? The list goes on and on. Somewhere, somehow all these questions and what ifs need to be balanced, thought about, analyzed and acted upon. Sometimes the solution sets are not very attractive - and don't play well in a media geared for sensationalism over rationality. Even sticking with national security, here on the home front, the same issues and problems are ever at play. Acceptable risk must be balanced against public perceptions and further balanced against what the nation can withstand and what it can not. Decisions are made accordingly, and there are never any made without one hell of a dog fight. then, to compound and complicate matters, the logical, practical and best courses of action almost NEVER look good in a 30 second soundbite, and could probably be torn to shreds by being misrepresented on your average "credible news magazine", whether it be on TV or in print. Then, once again you have a government in reacton mode when they should be spending their time addressing the problems. Oh, people continue to march and continue to address the problems. There are literally thousands of people who do the work as best they can no matter who is in charge, but when it comes time to the "big decisions", the leadership is too busy weighing what needs to get done vs. what will be accepted by all parties listed above to make a timely call. I'm not talking about issues that need to be addressed in a matter of moments or hours, I'm referring to the ones that once the call is made, take months or years to effect. If it takes a year to make the call, then by the time one sees the results, the situation has probably changed again. So, I understand and agree with those who are frustrated by what they view as inactions. I understand and agree with those who view things as the wrong actions. I understand and agree with those who view things as the right actions. But, when it comes to matters as serious as this, one should take pause, if not a deep breath, and think about it. And I'm not exagerating when I say the ultimate survival of our civilization and way of life (emphasis on way of life, as that is what concerns the average American or European) depends on our true understanding of things and in making the right decisions for our collective future. We have in part, created our own monster and at the same time have had monsters we never thought about show up at the door. Either way, we have to deal with the monsters. How they got there is pretty well immaterial. But, that would require all sides of the argument to learn about the other sides, and actually attempt to understand the situations at hand. Sadly, that ain't going to happen here, nor is it likely to happen anywhere. Hell, you're own Congress works against you every day. Kumbaya is never going to happen. Never has, never will. Check out the last 3,000 years of human history. Get along with who you can now, make the compromises you have to, make the enemies you need to. But, bottom line, if you want to have what you have now - this country is going to have to do some unpopular and often pretty ugly things. That's just the way it is. Sorry for the FFS plus post, but if anyone actually read this far - I just felt like saying it. 398738[/snapback] Remember, man, that you are dust, and unto dust you shall return. (as if you'd forget). I guess what we all argue and fight over is HOW we return to dust. But in the end it makes not one iota of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 [i I just felt like saying it. 398738[/snapback] I'm glad you did. Thanks for the reading tips as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Remember, man, that you are dust, and unto dust you shall return. (as if you'd forget). I guess what we all argue and fight over is HOW we return to dust. But in the end it makes not one iota of difference. 398927[/snapback] Probably not for us, Debbie. Maybe for someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Probably not for us, Debbie. Maybe for someone else? 398943[/snapback] ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ME. 398960[/snapback] You're so funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Well, THIS is certainly interesting. Always nice to get these perspectives. As the stoic Marcus Aurelius said, "The opinions of 10,000 men are worthless if none of them know anything about the subject". Carry on. 397773[/snapback] BiB probably knows more about this subject than anybody. Man, I'm only 24. I'm scared to see how this country is going to be in 20 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 BiB probably knows more about this subject than anybody. Man, I'm only 24. I'm scared to see how this country is going to be in 20 years... 399057[/snapback] As long as plans in the fire stay on track, I believe things will be a lot better off. Of course a new admin gets in who listens to the squeaky wheel may undermine all of the efforts made to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 As long as plans in the fire stay on track, I believe things will be a lot better off. Of course a new admin gets in who listens to the squeaky wheel may undermine all of the efforts made to this point. 399092[/snapback] And squeaky wheel is what they will run on, whoever it is, just to get elected. And, they probably will. This is my concern as well. Hopefully, enough will be going on by then that they can't stop much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 As long as plans in the fire stay on track, I believe things will be a lot better off. Of course a new admin gets in who listens to the squeaky wheel may undermine all of the efforts made to this point. 399092[/snapback] Well, that's what I fear. The majority of people around me just don't seem to get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Are you out of your mind? It's a well known fact that BiB works in this arena on a daily basis - it's how he puts food on the table and we're damn lucky to have HIM doing it as well as sharing his insight. Jesus Kurt, get a grip. 398345[/snapback] I didn't realize this board attracted such a large number of abaya salesmen who hope to breath some serious life into their businesses by licking a little Al Queda butt ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I didn't realize this board attracted such a large number of abaya salesmen who hope to breath some serious life into their businesses by licking a little Al Queda butt ;-) 399352[/snapback] Give it a rest. You're the one in way over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Give it a rest. You're the one in way over your head. 399375[/snapback] Is there an echo in here- or is that just your head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Is there an echo in here- or is that just your head? 399464[/snapback] Wow, that's very mature. What are you 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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