bartshan-83 Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 I think he should get paid. This is not a TO "I'm in the 2nd year of a 6 year contract" situation. He has one year left and he is making 1.66 mill. The Steelers say they won't negotiate with him if he is not in camp, but I wonder if they will crack. I'm sure they can imagine how much less effective that running game will be when defenses only have to worry about Randel-El in the passing game. Ward
scribo Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 I bet Ward gives in first. I say that cause I don't think Cower will back down. I think Ward will go to camp and get a raise. But...I really hope he holds out for the whole season!
R. Rich Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 ...I really hope he holds out for the whole season! 395561[/snapback] I don't, for numerous reasons.
Like A Mofo Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 I don't, for numerous reasons. 395565[/snapback] Fantasy reasons?
Simon Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 This falls in the "You didn't hear it from me" category: Hines Ward has a degenerative condition in one of his knees and as a result is likely facing a significantly shortened career. Both the Stillers and Ward are aware of it and it is a factor in contract negotiations. I love Hines but holding out is probably not the right tack to take with the Stillers, as they are rather hard-nosed in how they deal with their players. It is also worth noting that they are historically unwilling to pay players for past performance when contract time rolls around. If you don't believe me, you can ask Lambert, Joe Greene, Rod Woodson, etc.
kegtapr Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 I think he should get paid. 395393[/snapback] I don't think a player should ever hold out. You signed a contract, you honor the contract. Wish I could not go to work and end up getting more money.
lawnboy1977 Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 I don't think a player should ever hold out. You signed a contract, you honor the contract. Wish I could not go to work and end up getting more money. 395706[/snapback] Thats my thought on all of these holdouts. For instance in my current job I am subject to review every 6 months, as I'm sure is quite common in corporate life. What if I didn't like the way the review went and as a result I "held out" until a new review was completed. I would think I'd get fired! I wish I could just quit my job at any time if I don't like the review or the way the job goes, but alas I can't. Of course the good old American way is if you don't like your job, you don't quit. You just go in and do it half ass everyday. Well, at least according to Homer Simpson. Thanks Homer!!
MDH Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 I don't think a player should ever hold out. You signed a contract, you honor the contract. Wish I could not go to work and end up getting more money. 395706[/snapback] You seem to be under the impression that player's contracts are guaranteed. The day teams don't cut guys that aren't producing like they should (or hell, who ARE producing but cost too much) is the day I don't think a player should have the right to hold out to get his market value. Its a two way street. TO signed a deal last year. When he signed the deal he was one of the top 2 WRs in the league. That's still the same today. Hence, I think his demands are ridiculous. Ward, however, has played the good soldier and outplayed his contract year in and year out. Going into the final year of his contract he wants some security from the team he's played his guts out for. I don't blame him. Pittsburgh should pay up and thank Ward for the job he's done for them for way under market value.
Simon Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Pittsburgh should pay up and thank Ward for the job he's done for them for way under market value. I agree with the sentiment, MD. But the reality doesn't seem quite so simple. If you cough up big change to Ward for what he's done in the past, knowing that his future is not nearly as bright, you're hurting your current team by minimizing your ability to make it better with limited salary cap space. Weakening your team to pay for the past performance of one guy isn't fair to 50 other guys who want the Stillers administration to do everything they can to help them win "this" year. It's a tough situation for everybody and I think the Stillers should have dealt with it 3 years ago without Ward having to say a word about it. Cya
bartshan-83 Posted August 2, 2005 Author Posted August 2, 2005 I don't think a player should ever hold out. You signed a contract, you honor the contract. Wish I could not go to work and end up getting more money. 395706[/snapback] Well, IMO, it's not so cut-n-dry. As another poster mentioned, his deal is not guaranteed. When a team signs a player to a contract, aren't they then obligated to pay him every dollar they agreed to? Shouldn't they be required to honor the contract in it's entirety? I assume you think it's okay for a team to cut a player whom they feel is overpaid and therefore not honor whatever remains on his "contract." To me, that is not fair, but NO one complains about that. There is never any debate on ESPN on whether or not it was okay that a GM cut a certain player. If contracts were guaranteed, then holding out would be ridiculous, IMO. You don't see a lot of NBA players holding out, do you? And to address you point of comparing it your job, again, I do not see a similarity. I'm sure at your current job, you did not agree to work for your employer for a set amount of years. Would I be correct in assuming that if you received a better offer from another company that you would be free to leave your current job and take that offer? If that is the case, then you have freedoms that these players do not. Sadly, sometimes the only leverage they have is to refuse to give their services until they feel they are being adaquately compensated.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 This falls in the "You didn't hear it from me" category:Hines Ward has a degenerative condition in one of his knees and as a result is likely facing a significantly shortened career. Both the Stillers and Ward are aware of it and it is a factor in contract negotiations. 395704[/snapback] But I did hear it from you. You're the only one I heard it from. In fact, there are 5 billion people I didn't hear it from and only one that I did. Could you please tell me where I heard it from then, because I could have sworn it was you.
Simon Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Could you please tell me where I heard it from then, because I could have sworn it was you. You heard it from R. Rich's wife. Although I refuse to speculate how she could have found out.
MDH Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 I agree with the sentiment, MD. But the reality doesn't seem quite so simple. If you cough up big change to Ward for what he's done in the past, knowing that his future is not nearly as bright, you're hurting your current team by minimizing your ability to make it better with limited salary cap space. 395739[/snapback] And this is exactly why players should hold out. Because by the time their contracts are up the teams can say, "thanks for what you've done for us, but your best years are behind you!" I hope your info on Ward is incorrect, he's one of the guys in the league I admire the most.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Hines ward the last 3 seasons has made the money of the 15th, 34th, and now 37th highest paid wr in the league. Name me 36 wr's better than Hines Ward. Ward deserves a new contract.
Simon Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 I hope your info on Ward is incorrect, he's one of the guys in the league I admire the most. It would be irresponsible to say where it came from, but unless the team intends to subtly disseminate misinformation to gain public opinion leverage in their contract negotiations with Ward, then chances are that considering the source the information is is accurate. I too hope it's not true as Ward has become the only WR to make his way onto my list of all-time favorite Top10 players. Cya
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 If he holds out, the Steelers' passing game goes into the toilet. As it stood, they had just Ward and Randle el and not much else besides promising rookie TE Heath Miller. Without Ward and an aging Bettis, it's NOT going to be pretty.
EndZoneCrew Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 I don't, for numerous reasons. 395565[/snapback] don't worry Psycho will let you buy her another jersey
R. Rich Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Fantasy reasons? 395606[/snapback] Well, he is one of the guys I kept on my keeper league fantasy football team.
R. Rich Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 don't worry Psycho will let you buy her another jersey 395900[/snapback] Probably so, to go along w/: the Greg Lloyd reversable jersey I bought her for her birthday 8 years ago, or... the Lee Flowers jersey she bought after we got married 6 years ago, or... the Roethlisberger jersey she got as a Christmas gift from Mommy last year.
plenzmd1 Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Well, IMO, it's not so cut-n-dry. As another poster mentioned, his deal is not guaranteed. When a team signs a player to a contract, aren't they then obligated to pay him every dollar they agreed to? Shouldn't they be required to honor the contract in it's entirety? I assume you think it's okay for a team to cut a player whom they feel is overpaid and therefore not honor whatever remains on his "contract." To me, that is not fair, but NO one complains about that. There is never any debate on ESPN on whether or not it was okay that a GM cut a certain player. If contracts were guaranteed, then holding out would be ridiculous, IMO. You don't see a lot of NBA players holding out, do you? And to address you point of comparing it your job, again, I do not see a similarity. I'm sure at your current job, you did not agree to work for your employer for a set amount of years. Would I be correct in assuming that if you received a better offer from another company that you would be free to leave your current job and take that offer? If that is the case, then you have freedoms that these players do not. Sadly, sometimes the only leverage they have is to refuse to give their services until they feel they are being adaquately compensated. 395797[/snapback] Here is my take on the contracts. Rookie deals (except for first 10 picks of fisrt round) can really suck, thats why teams covet them so much) really hinder a guy in making the money he is worth. Thats why when I see guys like Walker and Boldin and I think Ward want to get paid like the top players they are, with the prospect of getting injured with no guaranteed contracts, I can accept their holdouts. However, once a guy is onto his second contract, he then has just as much leverage as the team. He accepts a SIGNING bonus inliu of a guaranteed contract. However, the teams leverage is that by agreeing to this signing bonus, you will also play far me at this salry for the next X years. Like in any negotitiation, both sides must get something . out of the deal. The players absolutely understand when they sign the deal the only thing promised is the signing bonus.That bonus can NEVER be taken back for lack of performance! Now, I think some of these players are starting to realize that the bonus thats reported in the media is not always what is actually guaranteed in the contract, but the agent likes to leak that so he looks better. From what I hear, MCCallister contract was reported as $12M bonus, but only six of that is signing, the other part he will probably never see, just like TO. Howevah, you signed that deal when you had the options, not when you where tied by the draft to a certain team. So therefore, in my opinion, deal with and live up to it. Cant help if your agent sucked, thats just life, you threw in with the wrong guy. Look at Arrington, his dolt agent never` read the contract before he approved it and had Lavar sign it. Whos fault is that. Kinda like going to a brokerage house and saying i want my money back cause I lost money in stocks you recommended. On their secong contract, these guys know the risks they are taking, so live with it
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