Blaming TD for Bills not making playoffs

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Kelly, your making my point. They feel that QBs are a hit or miss proposition coming out of college, and ya just never know when your going to find the diamond in the rough.Lets not forget all the first rd busts of QBs. Also, 2nd string QBs that show just enough can bring a lot in a trade, ala RJ and AJ Feeley. Was Brady being as good as he is lucky, absolutely. That NE drafted him, no way is that luck.

 

It like the guy who combs a beach all day with a metal detector for five years with absolutely nothing to show for it, then one day finds a rare gold coin worth millions. We`all would say luck, he would say dedication to a philosphy.

 

What if this backup from USC proves to be the real deal, gonna call that luck as well. It is a phiosphy and they have stuck with since they have been in NE. Bill Walsh is the first who esposed this philosphy

391560[/snapback]

 

 

The phenomeal luck that Belichick had with the brady pick was not that he chose him, the dumb luck that BB had was that Lewis hit Bledsoe in a way which collapsed his lung and got Brady a chance to do what he did.

 

While BB and VP for player personnel Pioli deserve tons of credit for picking the right QB with their sixth round pick, one cannot seriously say that the genius strategy behind this choice was one where they were just waiting for the chance to get Brady into the line-up because they just knew (or quite frankly even guessed) that he would do all he did and accomplish all he did.

 

Geniuses do make their own luck and I am quite comfortable labeling BB a football genius, but right along with this has to come the realization that being good or even being a genius simply is not a guarantee of success or ironically even competent reslults on the part of an NFL HC.

 

The factual outcomes of BB accimplishments before the NE run are actually quite TD like. My recollection is that in 5 years running the team in Cleveland BB made the playoffs all of 1 time (I can't remember whether he won or loss the game.

 

He was a football genius then and is simply a more knowlegable football genius now.

 

Even worse, his next move is one which I do not know enough of the details to draw a dead-lock certain conclusion, but BB showed ever sign of a lack of character for running out on his word or at least exceedinly bad judgment for giving his word only to find out he pledged all he had for a bill of goods when he signed up as Jets HC and then quickly ran out on his pledge and took the NE job instead. Not a profile in competence anyway you cut it.

 

The dumb luck which joined with BB's football genius is that I simply doubt that NE would have won the SB in 2001 with Bledsoe at QB or even sniffed at making the playoffs (not that I think that Bledsoe is bad in all cases, but he at that point in his career already had declining talent as he got older but he still was trying to and was depended upon by his teammates and HCs to do things he was incapable of doing in terms of getting Ws.

 

Not only is it hard for me to imaging Bledsoe winning it all at point, it is even harder for me to imagine BB or any HC simply benching Bledsoe and starting a 2nd year 6th rounder in his place.

 

My guess (and if you have a better guess and the rational behind it) is that BB/Weis would have done the best they could with Bledsoe that year and missed the playoffs. The next year perhaps they would have attempted to replicate the job Parcells did of reining Bledsoe in to compete for the playoffs or replicated the job MM did this last year and run things well enough with Bledsoe that the team could win if the ST and D played well enough.

 

However, I think the irony here and the dumb luck is that if Lewis had not sidelined Bledsoe he could easily have failed once again to produce results in NE and may have entually had a second failed HC run and end his career as an HC as the genius who never made good.

 

Who knows as BB has made great things out of the reality that occured.

 

I think the relevance for this as far as TD is concerned is that his W/L is the ultimae thing I judge him on as a fan, but I can easily live with the judgment that he is a failed genius for the Bills (up until this point) because he has a record of failure in terms of W/L, but there are enough actions he seemed to have a prime role in that I would say are genius:

 

1. Having the faith and judgment to pick WM.

2. Turning PP whom we were owed nothing for at the end of his contract into the 1st that became WM by taking the unsuspected step by most pundits of transition tagging Peerless and using the market created by the dumb promises of Arthur Blank to extort this 1st. (btw the TH for a 3rd move does not qualify as genius but it once again is a case of his leading the way in turning a player beyond the term of his original contract into a draft choice for us, this episode does not qualify as genius but it was very good work which most GMs do not and cannot pull off).

3. Aggressively pulling off some nice draft work for the Bills. I think that those who label TD a bad drafter simply overlook the fact that in 5 drafts his record of first day hits is very good with Pro Bowler choices to his credit and folks like WM and Evans being promising, his record of first day busts is limited by his most failed choices like MW still having a chance, and showing not much phemomenal on the second day but most players are actually contributors on this team and McGee was a great day 2 pick. Add to the outward measures of success, his general attitude were he has turned tradin future picks into current benefits (Bledsoe sucked overall, but trading nothing of value in 2002 for the Pro Bowl reserve accomplishments of Bledsoe that year was a clear immediate benefit and the relative value of trading the 2005 pick to draft a QB of the future in 2004 when it appears now there was little QB value the Bills could have gotten in 2005 is simply very good or even great GM work if WM plays like it looks like he will and JP plays like he might.

4. His work getting FAs to a city deemed not a star center like a big media town includes many assessments and gets of players like Spikes, Adams and Fletcher at amazing prices and great output.

 

Its hard impossible for me to call TD a genius with his failed record in W/L but looking at some of things he has done extraordinarily well only to see them overwhelmed by bad choice he made at HC and not being willing to simply recognize that one good year and one bad year of Bledsoe with the first rounder traded for him replaced by his trade of PP he should not have made the mistake or restructing his deal, I do recognize that since genius BB might well have a similar failed record if not for the dumb luck of Lewis, I find it hard to be too harsh on the future prospects for the Bills under TD.

[drnykterstein]

(Not that I fault TD for bringing in Bledsoe, in fact I'm glad he did)....

With Bledsoe out of this town, now we'll really find out what a team that TD has built is capable of. Bledsoe was part of the bad luck that he's had. So he erased that and now we move on.

[Bill from NYC]

I agree.  Maybe we should call the "left tackle fairy" [j/k]

 

My point is just that I think it's hard to say TD could have done better with the pick and the knowledge he and the scouts had at the time.

391681[/snapback]

 

Do you excuse every GM for every poor draft selection, or is this an honor reserved strictly for TD?

In my post, I heaped lots of praise upon the man, but I cannot be enough of a homer to rationalize away every poor move he makes. It makes for poor football talk.

TD is a GM. It is his job to guess right with the #4 draft selection. Is it an exact science? Of course not, but it is an important part of running a football team. This is why owners pay GMs the big bucks.

TD used the #4 to opt for a RT. Please tell me the last time a RT was selected in the top 5? Next, let me know when a RT was even selected in the top 10; and one with a weight problem to boot. MW is not imo a character risk. Moreover, he seems like a really nice kid, but he did also arrive with an issue or two.

The above tells me that he was not such a good choice. Again, if you read my post, I praised TD and expressed happiness that he was extended. Overall, he has done a good job imo, but I don't think that this mandates posters to sing remakes of "Til There Was You," nor other loves songs in every sentence of every post about the man.

I think that he could have done better with a different pick, and that the mistake was very costly. If you feel otherwise, so be it.

[pkwwjd]

This was not luck drafting Brady. The Pats have an organiztional philosphy of drafting a QB every year, or close to it. Look at this year, they have Brady, Fluite as a backup, Rohan Davey(who looks pretty good by all accounts) and they still draft the backup to Leinhart with the last pick in the draft. If this kid turns out to be the next Brady, would you consider that luck? I woudn't. That is having a plan and sticking to it.

391515[/snapback]

 

Not to equate the Patsies with a blind squirrel, but ...

 

even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

[34-78-83]

Do you excuse every GM for every poor draft selection, or is this an honor reserved strictly for TD?

In my post, I heaped lots of praise upon the man, but I cannot be enough of a homer to rationalize away every poor move he makes. It makes for poor football talk.

TD is a GM. It is his job to guess right with the #4 draft selection. Is it an exact science? Of course not, but it is an important part of running a football team. This is why owners pay GMs the big bucks.

TD used the #4 to opt for a RT. Please tell me the last time a RT was selected in the top 5? Next, let me know when a RT was even selected in the top 10; and one with a weight problem to boot. MW is not imo a character risk. Moreover, he seems like a really nice kid, but he did also arrive with an issue or two.

The above tells me that he was not such a good choice. Again, if you read my post, I praised TD and expressed happiness that he was extended. Overall, he has done a good job imo, but I don't think that this mandates posters to sing remakes of "Til There Was You," nor other loves songs in every sentence of every post about the man.

I think that he could have done better with a different pick, and that the mistake was very costly. If you feel otherwise, so be it. 

392498[/snapback]

 

In another perspective, one might consider the RT position in the Bills to be atleast as important as the left considering the power running game utilizing the TE along with JP often rolling to his right by design on passing plays. With that said I would expect MW to continue his improvements made from last season (from about game 5 on) and be a real force out there as a #4 pick. LT is certainly going to be a concern this year w/ Gandy but I don't see it as more of a concern than RT.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

In general I think that many of the top 10 picks in the draft are bad picks because the slotting the take down is such that few players can produce to compensate at a level that makes up for the hit on the team's cap.

 

I really learned alot from looking at the impacts of Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning on the teams which drafted them, It isn't possible or funny to compare how much better a player Manning is than Leaf, but it says a lot that despite Manning being a lot more fun to watch than checking out Ryan at some bar which is probably his biggest interaction with Pro football, the two racked up the same number of playoff wins for the teams which drafted them until Manning finally sprung ahead of Leaf in the 2003 season.

 

If one can fault TD for anything regarding MW it was not being able to trade down or trade away the pick, but then you need a partner to make a trade so the blame is not so purely given on this failure.

 

My estimation of MW is this:

 

1. Draft summary- If a team is going to take an OL player (which I think the Bills had to based on some poor OL investing in the final Butler years) then taking MW was the right thing to do with a top 10 pick (where a reach for Levi Jones provided a better value in retrospect). Despite some overall disappoinment he still strikes me as a better choice or prospect that McKinnie. I have no probs with him having been an RT because I think the more important thing he got in college is that he had and took responsibility for the left-handed QBs blindside. His weight and size I also judge and judged to be a plus for him because he demonstrated very good agility and athletcism with the big body in his college play and at the Combine with shuttle run results and other teats. Likewise as a pro, agility has not been the issue I have seen that have been the cause of MW problems, as he DCs do not seem to pick on him with the outside rush. Instead he totally failed to coordinate well with Pacillo his second year and struggled at times with Sullivan at RG his rookie year until things stabilized with Villarial at RG last year which indicates that the assessent of his having reasonable agility as a graduate was fine.

 

2. 1st Year- He had a good year and was a productive blocker in a productive offese. He showed better capability as a run blocker than I expected as Henry was productive across the board and did not have to favor running left behind Reben as I expected he would. MWs pass pro had some issues, but these were more on the inside with coordinating with Sullivan than they were with speed rushers from what I saw. Having an imobile QB did not help either in terms of covering up some of his failings, but the prospects were bright for him from my view.

 

3. 2nd year- He had some big problems as he simply was not enough of a vet to carry Pacillo and they both suffered as a resukt. The good news is that he was still relatively effective as a run blocker and I also though coordinated well with Campbell (you did not have to always keep the TE in to cover for him and I actually felt better about his work when he had lone outside responsibility because Campbell was going into the route than I did as far as him picking up the stunts if the DT and RDE were weaving. The lameness of our O attack in 2003 essentially made this a lost season in terms of development as far as MW was concerned fron my view. He did not digress, but as I had figured the plan was to flip him to blindside duty as soon as we could the lack of progress was troubling.

 

4. 3rd year- The wheels fell off in OTA and for the first time I begin to wonder if he was going to be bust as a pick. He did not take the death of the grandmother who raised him like a professional. He not only missed the OTA's but let his weight and body go down the tubes. I think it really hurt him that Ruben was gone and Teague had not taken over as spiritual leader of the OL as Kent Hull had been. MW really needed someone to either support him through the family trauma and actually stay focused on being a professional and lose himself in his work if losing his Grammy was too painful. Instead, amidst the transition to JMac and with no real internal leadership on the OL MW did not show the individual character to keep his eye on the prize.

 

The good news is tat MW turned it around pretty quickly once JMac got in place an took over. It was worrisome when almost right out of the box in his rehab, MW hurt himself and had to focus on conditioning on a bike rather than playing on the field to get back to par. In fact, that he was able to turnaround hs performance so quickly (he needed and got threats for JMac to move him to Guard early on) that he played well enough to merit a gameball by mid-season.

 

By the end of the season bouyed by the strong performance of WM and working quite well with the stable Villarial MW even began to pancake some opponents as the season went on. We still lost a year or even two as I had hoped and he showed some signs that if Vinky and Ruel had been on their game he would be ready to flip to LT today, but that isn't in the cards yet and Gandy is the likely placegholder this year.

 

05 camp- This will be interesting as the Bills have tons of options to put together a good to very good OL, but none of them seems to be a winning option right biw. While theoretically it is not an unreasonable thing to visualize doing the flip of MW now, i think the Bills have correctly not gone that way as MW is still not far enough removed awat from his near meltdown and it will be a better easier move if it comes off of a good 05 RT performance. i expect that will happen because he will only get better after his first second straight year with the same G beside him.

 

I expect MW to have a quality year at RT and maybe possibly raise the noion of making the switch earlier to LT later this season though I hope that is not something we will want or have to do,

 

4.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Do you excuse every GM for every poor draft selection, or is this an honor reserved strictly for TD?

In my post, I heaped lots of praise upon the man, but I cannot be enough of a homer to rationalize away every poor move he makes. It makes for poor football talk.

TD is a GM. It is his job to guess right with the #4 draft selection. Is it an exact science? Of course not, but it is an important part of running a football team. This is why owners pay GMs the big bucks.

TD used the #4 to opt for a RT. Please tell me the last time a RT was selected in the top 5? Next, let me know when a RT was even selected in the top 10; and one with a weight problem to boot. MW is not imo a character risk. Moreover, he seems like a really nice kid, but he did also arrive with an issue or two.

The above tells me that he was not such a good choice. Again, if you read my post, I praised TD and expressed happiness that he was extended. Overall, he has done a good job imo, but I don't think that this mandates posters to sing remakes of "Til There Was You," nor other loves songs in every sentence of every post about the man.

I think that he could have done better with a different pick, and that the mistake was very costly. If you feel otherwise, so be it. 

392498[/snapback]

Bill, I see your points completely, and I would also warn against any homerism. I think TD certainly has made his share of mistakes. Mistake No. 1: Gregg Williams.

 

However, since you feel the way you do, and I'll even grant you the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, tell me whom you would have drafted, given the Bills' needs at the time, at No. 4 (no moving down). Be honest.

 

EDIT: Part of my point was, how good of a draft was this in sum? Reflection shows it wasn't that great. If we have our right tackle for the decade and he is rock-solid, I have no problem with that pick at No. 4.

[San-O]

Do you excuse every GM for every poor draft selection, or is this an honor reserved strictly for TD?

In my post, I heaped lots of praise upon the man, but I cannot be enough of a homer to rationalize away every poor move he makes. It makes for poor football talk.

TD is a GM. It is his job to guess right with the #4 draft selection. Is it an exact science? Of course not, but it is an important part of running a football team. This is why owners pay GMs the big bucks.

TD used the #4 to opt for a RT. Please tell me the last time a RT was selected in the top 5? Next, let me know when a RT was even selected in the top 10; and one with a weight problem to boot. MW is not imo a character risk. Moreover, he seems like a really nice kid, but he did also arrive with an issue or two.

The above tells me that he was not such a good choice. Again, if you read my post, I praised TD and expressed happiness that he was extended. Overall, he has done a good job imo, but I don't think that this mandates posters to sing remakes of "Til There Was You," nor other loves songs in every sentence of every post about the man.

I think that he could have done better with a different pick, and that the mistake was very costly. If you feel otherwise, so be it. 

392498[/snapback]

 

Hasn't happened going back over the last 10 years I believe.

 

Just happen to know this because I checked it out a couple of weeks back

during a flame-out discussing O-line and MW.

[San-O]

In another perspective, one might consider the RT position in the Bills to be atleast as important as the left considering the power running game utilizing the TE along with JP often rolling to his right by design on passing plays. With that said I would expect MW to continue his improvements made from last season (from about game 5 on) and be a real force out there as a #4 pick. LT is certainly going to be a concern this year w/ Gandy but I don't see it as more of a concern than RT.

392574[/snapback]

 

That is not perspective, it's myopia.

 

No others teams in the league run to the right and use a tight-end?

 

RT's are paid less everywhere.

[34-78-83]

That is not perspective, it's myopia.

 

No others teams in the league run to the right and use a tight-end?

 

RT's are paid less everywhere.

392746[/snapback]

 

This feels like Deja-vu somehow but I'll say anyway ..... now is the time where I bring up stellar De's playing on the left side or atleast switching back and forth such as Peppers, Strahan, Taylor, etc....

 

You may also want to check out MW's impressive effectiveness in the running game and think about how a Tight End Seal as a bonus on a run to the right makes a most dubious situation for most any defense.

[jarthur31]

Support or dispute.

 

I've always held that the buck doesn't stop here with the GM. He has a specific job to do. The teams that have been most successful have been a combination of the GM acquiring players and coaches, the coaches living up to their potential and making all the right moves, AND the players living up to their potential and making all the right moves, all happening at the same time. All three things have to work together, with equal importance. The Pats have shown that the players Pioli has acquired and signed were the kind of players that can excel when their great coach puts them in a great position and then those guys, many of whom who are not stars, make plays at the right time. Granted, Belichick has a hand in a lot of player moves but without Pioli, they simply would not have won, without BB they simply would not have won, and without Brady they simply would not have won.

 

The Ravens and the Rams and other teams that have won the Super Bowl in the last few years have had everything come together for them at the same time. It wasn't just because of the GM's brilliance, otherwise they would be there year after year after year.

391270[/snapback]

 

He has a hand in whether the team wins or loses but it doesn't start there as many here would love to believe.

 

1. Players have to play. If they can't, bench them, dock them pay, release them. If they don't want to play here, remove the cancer.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, I see your points completely, and I would also warn against any homerism.  I think TD certainly has made his share of mistakes.  Mistake No. 1: Gregg Williams.

 

However, since you feel the way you do, and I'll even grant you the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, tell me whom you would have drafted, given the Bills' needs at the time, at No. 4 (no moving down).  Be honest.

 

EDIT: Part of my point was, how good of a draft was this in sum?  Reflection shows it wasn't that great.  If we have our right tackle for the decade and he is rock-solid, I have no problem with that pick at No. 4.

392715[/snapback]

 

I was on this board screaming for months for McKinnie before that draft. I know that there are a few "old-timers" still here that can verify this.

I knew that MW played in front of a left handed qb (protecting the blind side), but still saw no sense in drafting a plodding RT when a LT who wiped out Freeney in a college match-up and had never allowed a sack was available. After the pick, there was no choice but to support MW, TD and his decision. Looking back, I would still rather have McKinnie than Big Mike, but the difference between their progress at this time does appear to be slight.

 

Having said all this, imo, this is not the issue. Remember, I am the guy who would have happily accepted a 5th in a weak draft for Henry. Actually, this serves to make my point. I am not the GM. I'm just a middle aged guy who loves the Bills and the state of NY. TD has, and is paid well for having the responsibility for bringing talent to our beloved Bills on draft day. Because of the salary that accompanies a #4, MW, imo, was a big setback for the Bills and Bills fanatics like us.

 

In summary, I am thinking that Mike Williams is the highest paid RT in the history of football. If he plays like the best, or even one of the best of all time RTs (Bob Brown, Erik Allen, etc.), then he will be worth the investment. As of today, I have not seen any indication that he will do so. Not a bad player mind you, but I fail to see the hall of Fame ability for the Hall of Fame salary.

If TD turns out to be right about Losman, he will have carved a legend of success, because he DID provide JP with a fairly good supporting cast and very good coaching. If not, there should be negative consequenses.

Jmo.

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!