If you think "The Documents" are real

[IUBillsFan]

You believe that a National Guard Unit in Texas had a full fledged cold-type, type-setting machine, to slow and complicated for most normal every-day office needs, and which cost between $16,000 and $22,000 in 2004 Dollars.

 

You believe that a LTC had someone type up something called a “Memo to file” which of course doesn’t exist anywhere in the military and which no clerk would ever place in an official file because it in no way conforms to the anal protocols which military paperwork insists on.

 

Furthermore, you believe that whoever typed these memos was more anally retentive than a NASA engineer because they insisted on producing centered headlines which were correct to the millimeter. That means they would have had to type out the contents of the headline, measure each line with a ruler (in millimetres mind you, inches would not have sufficed). Then they painstakingly measured the exact mid point of the paper (for all three lines) and then again painstakingly reversed the carrier to exactly the pre-measured point to achieve an exactness which would normally only be achievable by computers some twenty years in the future.

 

Oh yeah, a year later they did exactly the same thing and amazingly to such an exact degree that both documents headers matched each other perfectly. Halleluja Mommy, the statue is bleeding tears.

 

Not to mention the fact that this NG unit is in possession of the only typewriter in the World which is capable of kerning. No other typewriter on the face of the Earth can do this and IBM is kind of curious why one of their’s starting doing it back in ’72.

 

At least to the extent of the reaseach I have done...You won't hurt my feelings to disagree B)

[SilverNRed]

How dare you question Dan Rather? Don't you know he's DAN F###ing RATHER?!?!

 

It was on 60 Minutes and they have never been wrong. When you think they're wrong, it just means they've blown your mind to the point where you can't even comprehend what they're trying to tell you. And those few times when they were wrong? Well, even those times, they were right AND wrong. Somehow.

 

Nod your head and obey.

 

[/Dan Rather's Defense So Far]

[Tux of Borg]

The national guard gets nothing but the best hand-me-down equipment from active duty. Which they happen to get from the lowest bidder.

[DC Tom]

I just have one question...

 

WHY ON EARTH IS THIS OF ANY IMPORTANCE IN THE ELECTION?????

 

It says a lot about our perfection as a nation that the issues that face us are so minor that our most pressing story is about typesetting. Edward R. Murrow, where are you when we need you?

[Alaska Darin]

The national guard gets nothing but the best hand-me-down equipment from active duty.  Which they happen to get from the lowest bidder.

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B.S. The Guard in Alaska has the best new equipment money can buy. I can't tell you how annoying it was to sit across the street from them seeing all the new equipment roll in, while they had almost no one qualified to use it.

 

Everything: Trucks, tactical comm gear, backhoes, snowmobiles, ATVs, etc. Meanwhile we're still using deuces from '77, borrowing and piecemealing gear.

 

This is such a non-story it doesn't even matter. Just another successful attempt by these 2 groups of clowns to keep the focus from their actual ineptitude.

[IUBillsFan]

I just have one question...

 

WHY ON EARTH IS THIS OF ANY IMPORTANCE IN THE ELECTION?????

 

It says a lot about our perfection as a nation that the issues that face us are so minor that our most pressing story is about typesetting.  Edward R. Murrow, where are you when we need you? 

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I don't think it that simple. I think it shows that the Dems thought enough of this to get it on 60 minutes and you have a major news figure trying IMO to determine the outcome of an election.

[Mickey]

You believe that a National Guard Unit in Texas had a full fledged cold-type, type-setting machine, to slow and complicated for most normal every-day office needs, and which cost between $16,000 and $22,000 in 2004 Dollars.

 

You believe that a LTC had someone type up something called a “Memo to file” which of course doesn’t exist anywhere in the military and which no clerk would ever place in an official file because it in no way conforms to the anal protocols which military paperwork insists on.

 

Furthermore, you believe that whoever typed these memos was more anally retentive than a NASA engineer because they insisted on producing centered headlines which were correct to the millimeter. That means they would have had to type out the contents of the headline, measure each line with a ruler (in millimetres mind you, inches would not have sufficed). Then they painstakingly measured the exact mid point of the paper (for all three lines) and then again painstakingly reversed the carrier to exactly the pre-measured point to achieve an exactness which would normally only be achievable by computers some twenty years in the future.

 

Oh yeah, a year later they did exactly the same thing and amazingly to such an exact degree that both documents headers matched each other perfectly. Halleluja Mommy, the statue is bleeding tears.

 

Not to mention the fact that this NG unit is in possession of the only typewriter in the World which is capable of kerning. No other typewriter on the face of the Earth can do this and IBM is kind of curious why one of their’s starting doing it back in ’72.

 

At least to the extent of the reaseach I have done...You won't hurt my feelings to disagree  B)

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The whole forgery argument has been pretty effectively debunked and in fact, the expert originally quoted as the source for proving they were forgeries has recanted his opinion (Expert Recants):

 

Philip D. Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe yesterday that after further study, he now believes the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, ''th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing which varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was alloted the same space.

 

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised ''th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record that the White House made public earlier this year.

 

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had dismissed the Bush documents in an interview with The New York Times because the letters and formatting of the Bush memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Bouffard yesterday said that he had not considered one of the machines whose type is not logged in his database: the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the Bush memos to Selectric Composer samples obtained from Interpol, the international police agency, Bouffard said his view shifted.

 

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Bouffard yesterday provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 -- three years before the dates of the CBS memos -- the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

 

As for the raised ''th" that appears in the Bush memos -- to refer, for example, to units such as the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron -- Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s, and that the military could have ordered such custom balls from IBM.

 

For a pretty detailed analysis, with links galore, of the forgery romp see:

 

Forgery Follies Part I

Forgery Follies Part II

 

I can only hope there will not be a Forgery Follies Part III. I am not optimistic.

[MichFan]

IUBillsFan brings up the practical. Mickey brings up the theoretical.

 

The idea that Killian not only had an IBM Selectric Composer, but also had the technical competency/patience to type the memos with perfect centering on the header and to swap out typing heads to superscript the "th", seems ridiculous given the commentary from his family, friends, and coworkers. The debate has quickly shifted from people charging that they could be forgeries to people defending that they could still be authentic. Seems pretty clear where this issue is heading.

[IUBillsFan]

The whole forgery argument has been pretty effectively debunked and in fact, the expert originally quoted as the source for proving they were forgeries has recanted his opinion (Expert Recants):

 

Philip D. Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe yesterday that after further study, he now believes the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, ''th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing which varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was alloted the same space.

 

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised ''th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record that the White House made public earlier this year.

 

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had dismissed the Bush documents in an interview with The New York Times because the letters and formatting of the Bush memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Bouffard yesterday said that he had not considered one of the machines whose type is not logged in his database: the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the Bush memos to Selectric Composer samples obtained from Interpol, the international police agency, Bouffard said his view shifted.

 

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Bouffard yesterday provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 -- three years before the dates of the CBS memos -- the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

 

As for the raised ''th" that appears in the Bush memos -- to refer, for example, to units such as the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron -- Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s, and that the military could have ordered such custom balls from IBM.

 

For a pretty detailed analysis, with links galore, of the forgery romp see:

 

Forgery Follies Part I

Forgery Follies Part II

 

I can only hope there will not be a Forgery Follies Part III.  I am not optimistic.

29523[/snapback]

 

I read that but it still doesn't change the fact that the guy's widow said he didn't type or the fact that his son said that wasn't how his dad would have acted. I still think it is about 50-50. Bufford uses a lot of could have's in the article.

 

For me it doesn't answer the centering on the header, I remember typing papers on typewritters for school and it was not easy to get things centered and I don't remember being able to justify the lines.

 

As for this being a campaign issue for me it's a non-issue it is more a media integrity issue.

[SilverNRed]

The whole forgery argument has been pretty effectively debunked and in fact, the expert originally quoted as the source for proving they were forgeries has recanted his opinion (Expert Recants):

 

Philip D. Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe yesterday that after further study, he now believes the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, ''th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing which varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was alloted the same space.

 

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised ''th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record that the White House made public earlier this year.

 

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had dismissed the Bush documents in an interview with The New York Times because the letters and formatting of the Bush memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Bouffard yesterday said that he had not considered one of the machines whose type is not logged in his database: the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the Bush memos to Selectric Composer samples obtained from Interpol, the international police agency, Bouffard said his view shifted.

 

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Bouffard yesterday provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 -- three years before the dates of the CBS memos -- the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

 

As for the raised ''th" that appears in the Bush memos -- to refer, for example, to units such as the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron -- Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s, and that the military could have ordered such custom balls from IBM.

 

For a pretty detailed analysis, with links galore, of the forgery romp see:

 

Forgery Follies Part I

Forgery Follies Part II

 

I can only hope there will not be a Forgery Follies Part III.  I am not optimistic.

29523[/snapback]

 

Actually, no. The Boston Globe misquoted the guy and he's actually pretty PO'ed about it.

 

Boston Globe-orama

 

I just interviewed Dr. Bouffard again, and he's angry that the Globe has misrepresented him. He's been getting hate mail and nasty phone calls since last night's story was posted, and he wants me to correct the record. He did not change his mind, and he and his colleagues are becoming more certain that these documents are forgeries.

 

[bouffard said:] "I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

 

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"

 

"What I said to them was, I got new information about possible Selectric fonts and [Air Force] documents that indicated a Selectric machine could have been available, and I needed to do more analysis and consider it."

 

"But the more information we get and the more my colleagues look at this, we're more convinced that there are significant differences between the type of the [iBM] Composer that was available and the questionable document."

 

"The [new Selectric] typefaces sent to me invalidated the theory about the foot on the four [originally reported to INDC], but after looking at this more, there are still many more things that say this is bogus."

 

"... there are so many things that are not right; 's crossings,' 'downstrokes' ..."

 

"More things were looked into; more things about IBM options. Even if you bought special [superscripting] keys, it's not right. There are all kinds of things that say that this is not a typewriter."

 

"Any form of kerning may be critical [he hasn't rendered a definitive verdict if there is a form of kerning yet]. If there is any type of kerning, it obviously isn't a typewriter or it's definitely a typeset document."

 

On the Globe and others:

 

"You talk to someone on the phone and it comes out different than you said!"

 

Gotta love that Globe. Yeah, they're *very* reliable in these matters.

 

USA Today has a nice article today about how likely it is that the memoes are forgeries.

[SilverNRed]

Here's another expert who calls the memoes forgeries.

 

Analysis

 

Gotta love how CBS saw absolutely nothing odd about these memoes while they were waiting to 'break' the story at a time when it would have maximum political effect.

 

To date, the experts who support their authenticity are:

1. A handwriting expert who has previously been quoted as saying that all photocopies should not be considered credible.

2. A misquoted expert in the Boston Globe who actually *doesn't* think they are real.

[Mickey]

I read that but it still doesn't change the fact that the guy's widow said he didn't type or the fact that his son said that wasn't how his dad would have acted.  I still think it is about 50-50.  Bufford uses a lot of could have's in the article. 

 

For me it doesn't answer the centering on the header, I remember typing papers on typewritters for school and it was not easy to get things centered and I don't remember being able to justify the lines.

 

As for this being a campaign issue for me it's a non-issue it is more a media integrity issue.

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He didn't type? I guess secretaries hadn't been invented yet.

[GG]

He didn't type?  I guess secretaries hadn't been invented yet.

30303[/snapback]

 

Maybe that was part of the mesozoic period where they evolved into administrative assistants, and didn't have to type anymore.

[SilverNRed]

Poor CBS, now their expert says he didn't authenticate the memoes.

 

Washington Post

 

Expert Cited by CBS Says He Didn't Authenticate Papers

 

By Michael Dobbs and Howard Kurtz

Washington Post Staff Writers

Tuesday, September 14, 2004; Page A08

 

The lead expert retained by CBS News to examine disputed memos from President Bush's former squadron commander in the National Guard said yesterday that he examined only the late officer's signature and made no attempt to authenticate the documents themselves.

 

"There's no way that I, as a document expert, can authenticate them," Marcel Matley said in a telephone interview from San Francisco. The main reason, he said, is that they are "copies" that are "far removed" from the originals.

 

Matley's comments came amid growing evidence challenging the authenticity of the documents aired Wednesday on CBS's "60 Minutes." The program was part of an investigation asserting that Bush benefited from political favoritism in getting out of commitments to the Texas Air National Guard. On last night's "CBS Evening News," anchor Dan Rather said again that the network "believes the documents are authentic."

 

A detailed comparison by The Washington Post of memos obtained by CBS News with authenticated documents on Bush's National Guard service reveals dozens of inconsistencies, ranging from conflicting military terminology to different word-processing techniques.

 

The analysis shows that half a dozen Killian memos released earlier by the military were written with a standard typewriter using different formatting techniques from those characteristic of computer-generated documents. CBS's Killian memos bear numerous signs that are more consistent with modern-day word-processing programs, particularly Microsoft Word.

 

"I am personally 100 percent sure that they are fake," said Joseph M. Newcomer, author of several books on Windows programming, who worked on electronic typesetting techniques in the early 1970s. Newcomer said he had produced virtually exact replicas of the CBS documents using Microsoft Word formatting and the Times New Roman font.

 

Newcomer drew an analogy with an art expert trying to determine whether a painting of unknown provenance was painted by Leonardo Da Vinci. "If I was looking for a Da Vinci, I would look for characteristic brush strokes," he said. "If I found something that was painted with a modern synthetic brush, I would know that I have a forgery."

 

Meanwhile, Laura Bush became the first person from the White House to say the documents are likely forgeries. "You know they are probably altered," she told Radio Iowa in Des Moines yesterday. "And they probably are forgeries, and I think that's terrible, really."

 

Citing confidentiality issues, CBS News has declined to reveal the source of the disputed documents -- which have been in the network's possession for more than a month -- or to explain how they came to light after more than three decades. Yesterday, USA Today said that it had independently obtained copies of the documents "from a person with knowledge of Texas Air National Guard operations" who declined to be named "for fear of retaliation."

 

It was unclear whether the same person supplied the documents to both media outlets. USA Today said it had obtained its copies of the CBS documents Wednesday night "soon after" the "60 Minutes" broadcast, as well as another two purported Killian memos that had not been made public.

 

A detailed examination of the CBS documents beside authenticated Killian memos and other documents generated by Bush's 147th Fighter Interceptor Group suggests at least three areas of difference that are difficult to reconcile:

 

• Word-processing techniques. Of more than 100 records made available by the 147th Group and the Texas Air National Guard, none used the proportional spacing techniques characteristic of the CBS documents. Nor did they use a superscripted "th" in expressions such as "147th Group" and or "111th Fighter Intercept Squadron."

 

In a CBS News broadcast Friday night rebutting allegations that the documents had been forged, Rather displayed an authenticated Bush document from 1968 that included a small "th" next to the numbers "111" as proof that Guard typewriters were capable of producing superscripts. In fact, say Newcomer and other experts, the document aired by CBS News does not contain a superscript, because the top of the "th" character is at the same level as the rest of the type. Superscripts rise above the level of the type.

 

• Factual problems. A CBS document purportedly from Killian ordering Bush to report for his annual physical, dated May 4, 1972, gives Bush's address as "5000 Longmont #8, Houston." This address was used for many years by Bush's father, George H.W. Bush. National Guard documents suggest that the younger Bush stopped using that address in 1970 when he moved into an apartment, and did not use it again until late 1973 or 1974, when he moved to Cambridge, Mass., to attend Harvard Business School.

 

One CBS memo cites pressure allegedly being put on Killian by "Staudt," a reference to Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, one of Bush's early commanders. But the memo is dated Aug. 18, 1973, nearly a year and a half after Staudt retired from the Guard. Questioned about the discrepancy over the weekend, CBS officials said that Staudt was a "mythic figure" in the Guard who exercised influence from behind the scenes even after his retirement.

 

• Stylistic differences. To outsiders, how an officer wrote his name and rank or referred to his military unit may seem arcane and unimportant. Within the military, however, such details are regulated by rules and tradition, and can be of great significance. The CBS memos contain several stylistic examples at odds with standard Guard procedures, as reflected in authenticated documents.

 

In memos previously released by the Pentagon or the White House, Killian signed his rank "Lt Col" or "Lt Colonel, TexANG," in a single line after his name without periods. In the CBS memos, the "Lt Colonel" is on the next line, sometimes with a period but without the customary reference to TexANG, for Texas Air National Guard.

 

An ex-Guard commander, retired Col. Bobby W. Hodges, whom CBS originally cited as a key source in authenticating its documents, pointed to discrepancies in military abbreviations as evidence that the CBS memos are forgeries. The Guard, he said, never used the abbreviation "grp" for "group" or "OETR" for an officer evaluation review, as in the CBS documents. The correct terminology, he said, is "gp" and "OER."

 

In its broadcast last night, CBS News produced a new expert, Bill Glennon, an information technology consultant. He said that IBM electric typewriters in use in 1972 could produce superscripts and proportional spacing similar to those used in the disputed documents.

 

Any argument to the contrary is "an out-and-out lie," Glennon said in a telephone interview. But Glennon said he is not a document expert, could not vouch for the memos' authenticity and only examined them online because CBS did not give him copies when asked to visit the network's offices.

 

Thomas Phinney, program manager for fonts for the Adobe company in Seattle, which helped to develop the modern Times New Roman font, disputed Glennon's statement to CBS. He said "fairly extensive testing" had convinced him that the fonts and formatting used in the CBS documents could not have been produced by the most sophisticated IBM typewriters in use in 1972, including the Selectric and the Executive. He said the two systems used fonts of different widths.

 

On last night's "CBS Evening News," Rather said "60 Minutes" had done a "content analysis" of the memos and found, for example, that the date that Bush was suspended from flying -- Aug. 1, 1972 -- matched information in the documents. He also noted that USA Today had separately obtained another memo from 1972 in which Killian asked to be updated on Bush's flight certification status.

 

CBS executives have pointed to Matley as their lead expert on whether the memos are genuine, and included him in a "CBS Evening News" defense of the story Friday. Matley said he spent five to eight hours examining the memos. "I knew I could not prove them authentic just from my expertise," he said. "I can't say either way from my expertise, the narrow, narrow little field of my expertise."

 

In looking at the photocopies, he said, "I really felt we could not definitively say which font this is." But, he said, "I didn't see anything that would definitively tell me these are not authentic."

 

Asked about Matley's comments, CBS spokeswoman Sandy Genelius said: "In the end, the gist is that it's inconclusive. People are coming down on both sides, which is to be expected when you're dealing with copies of documents."

 

Questions about the CBS documents have grown to the point that they overshadow the allegations of favorable treatment toward Bush.

 

Prominent conservatives such as Rush Limbaugh are insisting the documents are forged. New York Times columnist William Safire said yesterday that CBS should agree to an independent investigation. Brent Bozell, president of the Media Research Center, called on the network to apologize, saying: "The CBS story is a hoax and a fraud, and a cheap and sloppy one at that. It boggles the mind that Dan Rather and CBS continue to defend it."

 

Staff reporters James V. Grimaldi and Mike Allen and researcher Alice Crites contributed to this report.

 

 

 

Oh, that's a shame.

[Alaska Darin]

Poor CBS, now their expert says he didn't authenticate the memoes.

 

Washington Post

Oh, that's a shame.

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I finally saw Dan Rather tonight. He looks like he's circling the drain.

 

CBS should send a message and fire his sorry ass. His explanation on how the story is more important that the truth shows what a sad state network "news" has fallen to.

[_BiB_]

I finally saw Dan Rather tonight.  He looks like he's circling the drain.

 

CBS should send a message and fire his sorry ass.  His explanation on how the story is more important that the truth shows what a sad state network "news" has fallen to.

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Anyone ever read "Airframe" by Michael Chricton? Although it's a novel, it gives a pretty accurate depiction of what a show like 60 minutes is really all about. They absolutely don't care who they destroy with slanted or innaccurate information as long as they get a rating point or two for the 10 minute segment. I've read non-fiction on this as well. I've also had a 60 minutes experience myself. Back in the late 70's, Mike Wallace came to Germany to do a segment on how poorly prepared we were to fight on a chemical battlefield. This wasn't true, but they sure made it look that way. He and crew were shucking and jiving having beers with us the night before and came on to the same folks he tipped a few with the next day like they were axe murderers. I lost any respect I ever had for that medium at that point. They make stuff look the way they want it to look. Not the way it is.

[gmac17]

don't you guys know that "The whole forgery argument has been pretty effectively debunked "?????

[SD Jarhead]

Anyone ever read "Airframe" by Michael Chricton? Although it's a novel, it gives a pretty accurate depiction of what a show like 60 minutes is really all about. They absolutely don't care who they destroy with slanted or innaccurate information as long as they get a rating point or two for the 10 minute segment. I've read non-fiction on this as well. I've also had a 60 minutes experience myself. Back in the late 70's, Mike Wallace came to Germany to do a segment on how poorly prepared we were to fight on a chemical battlefield. This wasn't true, but they sure made it look that way. He and crew were shucking and jiving having beers with us the night before and came on to the same folks he tipped a few with the next day like they were axe murderers. I lost any respect I ever had for that medium at that point. They make stuff look the way they want it to look. Not the way it is.

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If any of you are interested, PM me and I'll send you a letter that was sent out to military women soliciting them for an upcoming 60 minutes hit piece on the military and how we "allow" women to be raped and do nothing about it.

 

The letter says it all...the producer clearly has an adgenda and is looking to smear the military. I'd post a link, but I've got the letter in acrobat format. It's just another example of how the Leftists at CBS are trying to smear good Americans.

[BuffaloBorn1960]

don't you guys know that "The whole forgery argument has been pretty effectively debunked "?????

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of course that depends on what your definition of forgery is... and that may depend on what your definition of is...is..