TheMadCap Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Did you guys hear about the video of debris from today's launch? It doesn't appera to be anything serious, but experts will review the video frame by frame... 391026[/snapback] Supposedly a piece of tile from the belly of the craft. Looks like that patch kit is going to get a real in-the-field trial by fire.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Supposedly a piece of tile from the belly of the craft. Looks like that patch kit is going to get a real in-the-field trial by fire.... 391153[/snapback] Saw 2-3 chunks fall off, they also hit a bird. PETA will be calling soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Supposedly a piece of tile from the belly of the craft. Looks like that patch kit is going to get a real in-the-field trial by fire.... 391153[/snapback] From the nose, is what I heard. The nose isn't too critical, it doesn't get quite as hot (and it's happened before). Even money bet that they just let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Ditto...particularly over the past two-plus years. I eagerly await the day when we once again have a decent manned space program with actual concrete goals to achieve, rather than yet another mismanaged government program. 390783[/snapback] I completely agree with you and TheMadCap, you feces tossing simian! That is kinda scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Un. !@#$ing. Believable. NASA's grounded the shuttle because, with the foam that's still coming off the external tank (after 2 years of "fixing" it), it's not safe to fly. Gee, that's great...perchance you may have waited to ground it until all the orbiters were actually ON THE GROUND, you idiots!!!! How do you "ground" a vehicle that's CURRENTLY IN ORBIT???? I can only imagine what the astronauts are feeling up there right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Un. !@#$ing. Believable. NASA's grounded the shuttle because, with the foam that's still coming off the external tank (after 2 years of "fixing" it), it's not safe to fly. Gee, that's great...perchance you may have waited to ground it until all the orbiters were actually ON THE GROUND, you idiots!!!! How do you "ground" a vehicle that's CURRENTLY IN ORBIT???? I can only imagine what the astronauts are feeling up there right now. 391822[/snapback] Did you ever think that the only reason they've found so much foam falling off is because they now have a billion cameras setup to look for it? Who's to say that this hasn't happened on EVERY shuttle mission, but without all the cameras, they havn't seen it yet. And I'm sure the astronauts know the risks. Is it any different than someone enlisting in the military? They know that it's dangerous, but they do it anyway. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I can only imagine what the astronauts are feeling up there right now. 391822[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I wonder if grounding Columbia at this point would do any good? At least I know it couldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Did you ever think that the only reason they've found so much foam falling off is because they now have a billion cameras setup to look for it? Who's to say that this hasn't happened on EVERY shuttle mission, but without all the cameras, they havn't seen it yet. And I'm sure the astronauts know the risks. Is it any different than someone enlisting in the military? They know that it's dangerous, but they do it anyway. CW 391826[/snapback] I've never seen any footage from any launch that hasn't featured stuff falling off a launch vehicle. That's what happens when you launch a vehicle. sh-- falls off. I'm sure it's happened before... ...but that's not the point. The point is that NASA's BS excuse for management acts as though it's something so widely out of normal that they have to ground the fleet - with a vehicle in orbit! How stupid is that? They've basically told their astronauts that their orbiter is unsafe to fly (which is not necessarily true), and in the event of their orbiter being unsafe to fly there will be no rescue mission (despite plans and requirements to the contrary) as all the other orbiters are unsafe to fly... And that's despite the obvious fact that they grounded the fleet based on woefully incomplete data, as their best source of data on shuttle performance is inaccessible as it's still in orbit. How is that possibly smart management technique? As for the astronauts knowing the risk...I'm sure they're aware of and accept that a certain risk is involved in strapping your ass to four million pounds of explosive rocket fuel and launching it straight up into orbit. I'm certain they're aware of it, as Sally Ride's comment after Challenger demonstrates: "Perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." Most people with a modicum of brain cells even remotely rooted in reality are aware of it. I do NOT think, however, that signing up to be an astronaut implicitly carries with it the risk of being hung out to dry by a bunch of managers who collectively couldn't be trusted to run a McDonalds franchise, let alone a manned space program. The issues I have with the shuttle program aren't technical, and they aren't mired in some immature belief that everything in the world should be perfect at all times. It's that the shuttle program management should at least occasionally show something approaching a hint of knowing what the hell they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 The issues I have with the shuttle program aren't technical, and they aren't mired in some immature belief that everything in the world should be perfect at all times. It's that the shuttle program management should at least occasionally show something approaching a hint of knowing what the hell they're doing. 391838[/snapback] I think that it sounds typical of CYA management style anywhere. When everyone plays Cover Your Ass, this is the weird shite that comes out of the institutional brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I've never seen any footage from any launch that hasn't featured stuff falling off a launch vehicle. That's what happens when you launch a vehicle. sh-- falls off. I'm sure it's happened before... ...but that's not the point. The point is that NASA's BS excuse for management acts as though it's something so widely out of normal that they have to ground the fleet - with a vehicle in orbit! How stupid is that? They've basically told their astronauts that their orbiter is unsafe to fly (which is not necessarily true), and in the event of their orbiter being unsafe to fly there will be no rescue mission (despite plans and requirements to the contrary) as all the other orbiters are unsafe to fly... And that's despite the obvious fact that they grounded the fleet based on woefully incomplete data, as their best source of data on shuttle performance is inaccessible as it's still in orbit. How is that possibly smart management technique? As for the astronauts knowing the risk...I'm sure they're aware of and accept that a certain risk is involved in strapping your ass to four million pounds of explosive rocket fuel and launching it straight up into orbit. I'm certain they're aware of it, as Sally Ride's comment after Challenger demonstrates: "Perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." Most people with a modicum of brain cells even remotely rooted in reality are aware of it. I do NOT think, however, that signing up to be an astronaut implicitly carries with it the risk of being hung out to dry by a bunch of managers who collectively couldn't be trusted to run a McDonalds franchise, let alone a manned space program. The issues I have with the shuttle program aren't technical, and they aren't mired in some immature belief that everything in the world should be perfect at all times. It's that the shuttle program management should at least occasionally show something approaching a hint of knowing what the hell they're doing. 391838[/snapback] I suppose designing a new orbiter is out of the question...i mean i know there have been prototypes throughout the years, but maybe now the asswipes heading up the space program will decide to spend the necessary $$ to actually put some of them to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I suppose designing a new orbiter is out of the question...i mean i know there have been prototypes throughout the years, but maybe now the asswipes heading up the space program will decide to spend the necessary $$ to actually put some of them to use? 391843[/snapback] They're supposed to be designing one...the CEV, it's called. Crew Expedition Vehicle or something similar. Supposed to launch in 2010, when the shuttle's finally retired. Most of the concepts I've seen for the CEV are good ones - it'll be a reusable vehicle designed to do one thing and one thing only: put people in orbit (as opposed to the shuttle, which was designed to put people in orbit, keep them alive for 21 days, carry 20 tons of cargo, launch every damned sattelite that anyone wanted launched...basically, be all things to everyone). The only problem with it is that the same managers that are mucking up the shuttle program will ultimately be the ones responsible for the CEV...which means the real problem, the administrators that ignore objective physical realities of engineering when crafting bogus policy and statements, will still exist. In fact, judging by the trend of more oversight and less accountability to reality that accellerated from Challenger to Columbia, I'd wager that the CEV will be a technological success doomed to ultimate mission failure because the cloying attention of management will further stifle the application of actual engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 They're supposed to be designing one...the CEV, it's called. Crew Expedition Vehicle or something similar. Supposed to launch in 2010, when the shuttle's finally retired. Most of the concepts I've seen for the CEV are good ones - it'll be a reusable vehicle designed to do one thing and one thing only: put people in orbit (as opposed to the shuttle, which was designed to put people in orbit, keep them alive for 21 days, carry 20 tons of cargo, launch every damned sattelite that anyone wanted launched...basically, be all things to everyone). The only problem with it is that the same managers that are mucking up the shuttle program will ultimately be the ones responsible for the CEV...which means the real problem, the administrators that ignore objective physical realities of engineering when crafting bogus policy and statements, will still exist. In fact, judging by the trend of more oversight and less accountability to reality that accellerated from Challenger to Columbia, I'd wager that the CEV will be a technological success doomed to ultimate mission failure because the cloying attention of management will further stifle the application of actual engineering. 391851[/snapback] Or, it could go the way of the VentureStar. BILLIONS flushed down the crapper because the design they spent 10 years on didn't work. To be honest, I don't really see any reason at present to have a manned program at all. What would our guys be doing up there anyways? Until NASA gets a clue and decides to actually try and accomplish some manner of long term goal, let them focus on probes. I will state the fact that the assclowns at NASA know, have known about forever, and will not admit: The shuttle is a flying death-trap with a flawed design that just isn't economically worth what we get out of it. Take a look at the damage to the ET. THis was taken right after ET separation: http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/...BjEyRH9k3yGmg-- But this comedy gets even better fellow taxpayers: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/63756main_PAL_FACT_SHEET.pdf "The External Tank Project Office has re-evaluated the existing design of the tank’s protuberance air load ramps -- known as PAL ramps – because the ramps, which consist of thick, manually sprayed layers of foam, could, if liberated, become a source of debris... NASA plans to fly the next tank, ET 120, with the current design configuration. Three redesign options under consideration for future flights include elimination of the ramps; reducing the ramps to “mini” ramps, about one-third the size of the present ramps; or building a trailing edge “fence” on the back side of the cable tray." So in effect, what this says is, even though they lost one orbiter due to the faulty design of this ET, they decided to let it ride, came within a breath of destroying Discovery, and they just decided to fix it later. Nice. They will NEVER solve the foam problem. And yes, it has happened many times: http://www.floridatoday.com/columbia/colum...ory2A44772A.htm The only way to do it is to not use the insulation. However, they wouldn't be able to launch the shuttle in it's present configuration, it's too heavy. Because it is designed to lift satalites into high -velocity orbit, the shuttle requires the thrust of both those nasty boosters and that huge bomb called the ET. The point is, without spending millions on redesigning the ET, YET AGAIN, the shuttle will never be safe enough to fly. We don't even need it, we can hitch a ride to the ISS from the Russians, and use our other rockets to launch satalites. Hell, I'd rather see them spend the dough to commit to the shuttle C heavy lift vehicle at this point. BUt you see, the shuttle needs to fly to support it's bastard child, the ISS and vice-versa. Oh one more thing. The folks who build the ET, you know, the ONLY friggin company in the world who can, is building the cores for the next generation heavy lifter. As an added bonus for that lovely orange nightmare, they were promised by head assclown M. Giffen the rights to build the crew capsule for the new CEV. Good job fellas!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ok, time for all you NASA experts to let us know again how utterly important NASA is to mankind and to start defending the space administration yet again. They spent "hundreds of millions of dollars" to fix this problem and not a damn thing changed. They just got lucky that this time it is "believed" that the piece that broke off didn't actually hit the ship. "KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, Florida (CNN) -- NASA has grounded its space shuttles until engineers solve the recurring problem of falling debris, NASA's mission managers said Wednesday. Pieces of debris tore away from the shuttle Discovery during liftoff Tuesday -- despite NASA spending hundreds of millions of dollars trying to prevent a repeat of the problem that caused the 2003 Columbia disaster. A piece of insulating foam falling from the external fuel tank during Columbia's launch was blamed for the deaths of its seven crew. NASA officials say they do not believe falling foam actually hit Discovery." http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/07/28/s...ttle/index.html I'd say it's time to hand the reigns over to the X-Prize guys... seem they have their heads at least somewhat less deep in their asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 114 launches and we lost 2. Following are some examples of shuttle-based technologies: 3-D Biotechnology Developed for Space Shuttle medical research, a rotating cell-culture device simulates the microgravity of space. This allows researchers to grow cells in three dimensions. The device may one day help researchers find cures for dangerous infectious diseases and offer alternatives to patients who need organ transplant surgery. Artificial Heart Technology used in Space Shuttle fuel pumps led to the development of a miniaturized ventricular-assist pump by NASA and renowned heart surgeon Dr. Michael DeBakey. The tiny pump, a mere two inches long, one inch in diameter, and weighing less than four ounces, is currently undergoing clinical trials in Europe, where it has been successfully implanted into more than 20 people. Blood Serum Research An astronaut's body, once free of gravity's pull, experiences a redistribution of body fluids that can lead to a decrease in the number of red blood cells and produce a form of space anemia. Monitoring and evaluating blood serum was required to understand these phenomena. However, existing blood-analysis technology required the use of a centrifugation technology that was not practical in space. NASA developed new technologies for the collection and real-time analysis of blood as well as other bodily fluids without the need for centrifugation. Artificial Limbs Responding to a request from the orthopedic-appliance industry, NASA recommended that the foam insulation used to protect the Shuttle's external tank replace the heavy, fragile plaster used to produce master molds for prosthetics. The new material is light, virtually indestructible, and easy to ship and store. Lifesaving Light Special lighting technology developed for plant-growth experiments on Space Shuttle missions is now used to treat brain tumors in children. Doctors at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee use light-emitting diodes in a treatment called photodynamic therapy, a form of chemotherapy, to kill cancerous tumors. Taking Temperatures Infrared sensors developed to remotely measure the temperature of distant stars and planets for the Space Shuttle program led to the development of the hand-held optical sensor thermometer. Placed inside the ear canal, the thermometer provides an accurate reading in two seconds or less. Better Balance Devices built to measure the equilibrium of Space Shuttle astronauts when they return from space are now widely used by major medical centers to diagnose and treat patients suffering head injury, stroke, chronic dizziness and disorders of the central nervous system. Faster Diagnostics NASA technology was used to create a compact laboratory instrument for hospitals and doctor offices. This device quickly analyzes blood, accomplishing in 30 seconds what once took 20 minutes with conventional equipment. Land Mine Removal The same rocket fuel that helps launch the Space Shuttle is now being used to save lives -- by destroying land mines. A flare device, using leftover fuel donated by NASA, is placed next to the uncovered land mine and is ignited from a safe distance using a battery-triggered electric match. The explosive burns away, disabling the mine and rendering it harmless. Tracking Vehicles on Earth Tracking information originally used for Space Shuttle missions now helps track vehicles here on the ground. This commercial spin-off allows vehicles to transmit a signal back to a home base. Many cities today use the software to track and reassign emergency and public works vehicles. The technology also is used by vehicle fleet operations, such as taxis, armored cars and vehicles carrying hazardous cargo. Rescue 911 Rescue squads have a new extrication tool to help remove accident victims from wrecked vehicles. The hand-held device requires no auxiliary power systems or cumbersome hoses and is 70 percent cheaper than previous rescue equipment. The cutter uses a miniature version of the explosive charges that separate devices on the Space Shuttle. Byte Out of Crime Image-processing technology used to analyze Space Shuttle launch videos and to study meteorological images also helps law enforcement agencies improve crime-solving videos. The technology removes defects due to image jitter, image rotation and image zoom in video sequences. The technology also may be useful for medical imaging, scientific applications and home video. Gas Gauges A gas leak-detection system, originally developed to monitor the Shuttle's hydrogen propulsion system, is now being used by the Ford Motor Company in the production of a natural gas-powered car. Product Labeling NASA needs to identify, track, and keep records on each of the thousands of heat-shield tiles on the Space Shuttle. This required a labeling system that could be put on ceramic material and withstand the rigors of space travel to be readable after a flight. NASA developed high data-density, two-dimensional, machine-readable symbol technology used to mark individual tiles. This novel method of labeling products with invisible and virtually indestructible markings can be used on electronic parts, pharmaceuticals and livestock -- in fact on just about anything. Keep Cool Under Fire Materials from the Space Shuttle thermal protection system are used on NASCAR racing cars to protect drivers from the extreme heat generated by the engines. This same material is also used to protect firefighters. Fire Resistant Foam A unique foam developed for Space Shuttle thermal insulation and packing is now being used as thermal and acoustical insulation in aerospace, marine and industrial products. Since it's also fire resistant, it's being used as well for fire barriers, packaging and other applications requiring either high-temperature or very low-temperature insulation in critical environments. For example, use of these foam products by airframe manufacturers such as Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, and Airbus provides major weight savings, while retaining good thermal and acoustical properties in the various products. Fire Sighting A sensitive, gas infrared camera, used by NASA observers to monitor the blazing plumes from the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters is also capable of scanning for fires. Firefighters use this hand-held camera to pinpoint the hotspots of wildfires that rage out of control. Jeweler's Gem Jewelers no longer have to worry about inhaling dangerous asbestos fibers from the blocks they use as soldering bases. Space Shuttle heat-shield tiles offer jewelers a safer soldering base with temperature resistance far beyond the 1,400 degrees Fahrenheit generated by the jeweler's torch. Jet Stripping NASA developed a tool that uses powerful jet streams of water to strip paint and primer from the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters. A commercial version of this water jet is now used to treat turbine-engine components, airframe components, large aerospace hardware, ships and other mechanical devices, using only pure water. No hazardous chemicals are needed. Quick Fit Fasteners Fastening items in space is a difficult task. A Virginia company developed a fastener that can be pushed on, rather than turned. These quick-connect fasteners are flexible and strong, and have been used by NASA astronauts since 1989. The product is now in use by firefighters and nuclear power-plant repair technicians, and has other commercial applications. Computer Joysticks Computer games can now be played with all the precision and sensitivity needed for a safe and soft Space Shuttle touchdown. A game-controlling joystick for personal computer-based entertainment systems was modeled after controls used in shuttle simulators. Astronauts used the joystick to practice runway landings and orbit maneuvering. Toys for Tots Already successful with its Nerf toy products, Hasbro, Inc. wanted to design a toy glider that a child could fly. Benefiting from NASA wind-tunnel and aerodynamic expertise used in the Space Shuttle program, Hasbro improved the flying distances and loop-to-loop stunts of its toy gliders. Slick Products A lubricant used on the transporter that carries a Space Shuttle to the launch pad has resulted in a commercial penetrating-spray lube, which is used for rust prevention and loosening corroded nuts. It's also a cleaner and lubricant for guns and fishing reels, and can be used to reduce engine friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 114 launches and we lost 1. 392071[/snapback] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 did you know the spae shuttle hit a bird on takeoff?? how could they. where is PETA? i dont think they simply spent the money on fixing a piecve of foam. they probubly did other things to make sure nothing goes wrong. maybe they increased there standards for certain pieces of equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 How 'bout we not use styrofoam next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 where is PETA? 392094[/snapback] Killing puppies at a higher clip than government shelters and tossing the remains in dumpsters. Bad PETA. BAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 So ... let me get this straight ... We need to either stop manned flight or take it away from NASA because it's a waste of resources and NASA managers couldn't run a McDonald's? Right ... Even with the problems that NASA has encountered (some of them their own fault because of bloated beauracracy) they have still done more in 40 years than most of us could hope to do. You can question the need to slam a probe into a comet, but to pull it off is impressive. I know many of your comments are hyperbole, but let's give some credit to work that has been accomplished. SpaceShipOne, though impressive for a privately funded operation, still pales in comparison to what NASA has accomplished. Also remember that SS1 built upon the foundation of what NASA did. As far as the shuttles being all things to all groups, it wasn't up to them. It was from political pressure to include all the different needs in the design of the shuttle. It was a phenomenal engineering feat in its day. Thanks for being impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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