What 4 DE's Do We Keep?

[Astrobot]

I assume that Schobel, Kelsay, and (begrudgingly) Denney probably have their spots iced up. If you are keeping 4 or 5 DE's, here are a few thoughts:

 

Ritzmann ( 6-3, 254) Year 2 Tennessee -- Extremely fast. Light, and possible liability vs, the run. Has bulked up from these numbers, I'm told.Scroll down to the 2003 Tennessee-Fresno St Game Highlight of His Sack

 

Gause (6-4 275) Rookie UnDrafted South Carolina -- Tied with Kelsay as the biggest DE. Bigger than Schobel by 13 lbs. A sacking machine for the Gamecocks. Surprised he wasn't picked up early on Day Two of the draft, and I was very excited to see us sign him.

 

Osunde (6-3 255) Year 1 Connecticut -- Did not pass Cleve Browns' physical last year and was placed on their PUP list. He was an undrafted free agent. Supposed to be better in a 3-4, may be a Corey Moore Tweener type. Surprised we picked him up.

 

I'd like to see us carry an extra DT than an extra DE. I'd give Gause the seasoning on the PS and keep Ritzmann on the list of 53, using Ritzmann in obvious pass situations.

[TigerJ]

Ritzman did not test out that fast last year. I don't know whether he was at the combine or it was just an on campus workout. He is also relatively new to the game of football. I'm not sure that even having had the benefit of a year with Buffalo that he's really the most seasoned guy in this group.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I actually have no problem keeping Denney and feel no need to qualify it with grugingly keeping him.

 

Deeny flat-out sucked as a rookie as he apparently had issues lining up his body when playing to have the leverage to hold his own and even a a non-vet player could put him in a position where he was easily thrown aside.

 

Many fans found this particularly disappointing because after foolishly switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 to run the GW style D just at the same time we were losing Wiley to FA as we entered cap hell, had to cut Big Ted for contract reasons, Hansen was retiring and all this came soon after losing Bruce we needed a quality DE bad.

 

Folks not only were used to a level of DE play at the Bruce Smith level (an outlandish standard for any draftee to mee) folks took the fact that we turned around and drafted anothe DE Kelsay as a sign of Denney failure when actually we had such huge DL needs after the FA and other losses and the switch to the 4-3 we were going to need to draft a DL and likely a DE anyway regardless of how well or not Denney played.

 

At any rate, some may judge the fact that Kelsay became the starter over Denney last year as a sign of Denney problems when I think the evidence indicates that it really was more of a sign of Kelsay being that good.

 

Denney showed these signs of easily be a contributing Bill and as best as I can tell an essential player for us:

 

1. Though folks find fault with him for not being a Bruce like pass rusher at LDE he in fact has mastered his body issues where he actually has a rep for stout play against the run which balances his rush failings.

 

2. His stoutness against the run has allowed him to actually play DT on some plays despite the fact he has a DE rather than DT body. Part of the reason we only needed Phat Pat to line up for less than 2/3 of the D snaps last year was because Denney could fill in on 3rd and long at DT.

 

3. Denney was built for the run blitz as his long wing span makes him ideal in the short zone and he actually has developed some athleticism which allows him to cover in the medium zone in a Ted the Stork Hendricks kind of way.

 

4. TD still regers to him as giving us two starters )though Kelsay is the clear LDE starter) because Denney's flexibility is what allowed us to go with only 3 DEs on the roster last year despite us using a heavy DL rotation.

 

The judgment that Denney is a bad player strikes me as outmoded and based on his initial failures and not based on current footbsl reality.

[PISSCHUNK]

Really looking for Gause to step up and win the spot. If he shows well enough to justify a P.S. spot, I would be afraid that he would be picked up after we waived him and before we could re-sign him to the P.S.. Therefore, I think he sticks on the active roster.

 

 

Late

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I see Ritzmann and Osunde as the longshots, with either having a good chance of ending on the PS. Gause has the most to offer from a size, speed, and experience viewpoint.

[Mark Vader]

Gause definitely has the most upside of these 3. I am puzzled as to why he was not drafted. Was there any character issues that may have frightened other teams from drafting him?

 

I expect Osunde to be gone or on the P-Squad. He's very undersized for a D-Lineman.

 

Ritzmann IMO, is the wild card of the group. I think he is definitely a project player. He looked very impressive in the preseason last year. I know it was against 2nd stringers, but he did enough to impress the coaching staff to keep him on IR. He's one of the players I will be watching this preseason.

[TigerJ]

I think the book on Gause was that he was inconsistent on the field and does not show much burst despite the fact that he clocks pretty well.

[Ramius]

Highlight of His Sack

 

389177[/snapback]

 

Shouldnt you warn people if this isnt safe for work? I for one am avoiding this link.

[bdelma]

Don't be too sure about that stiff from BYU.

[Mikie2times]

I have to agree with FFS assessment of Denny. The guy adds solid depth at DE and can even play some DT. He sucked as a rookie, nobody's disputing that, but last year he started to show he could play at this level.

 

Besides, could anybody really in vision Denny flying out the gate his rookie year? He never really played against top notch competition at BYU, and his height made it very difficult to get used to the leverage needed to play DL in the NFL. Last year he made some real progress and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see that trend continue.

 

Past Denny, Schobel, and Kelsey I expect us to keep one more DE. It's a crap shoot at this point but the battle will likely be between Ritzmann and Gause. One will probably go to the PS, and if I had to take one of those two I would say Ritzmann makes it based on his experience. Ritzmann would also likely have the edge to contribute on special teams given his speed advantage over Gause.

 

 

Time will tell

[WVUFootball29]

I think is going to be a training camp toss up between Gause and Ritzmann. I liked what I saw from Constantine last preseason and I'm hoping this offseason he's made some steps inthe right direction.

 

Also I was extremely disappointed that Gause did not get drafted on day two in april, but I was over joyed to see the bills sign him as an UDFA. Hopefully he can provide the line with some depth and maybe a few sacks this year

 

I'd be happy to see either of these guys on the roster come week 1 and cant wait to see them battle for a roster spot here in the coming weeks

[stuckincincy]

I think is going to be a training camp toss up between Gause and Ritzmann.  I liked what I saw from Constantine last preseason and I'm hoping this offseason he's made some steps inthe right direction.

 

Also I was extremely disappointed that Gause did not get drafted on day two in april, but I was over joyed to see the bills sign him as an UDFA.  Hopefully he can provide the line with some depth and maybe a few sacks this year

 

I'd be happy to see either of these guys on the roster come week 1 and cant wait to see them battle for a roster spot here in the coming weeks

389892[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the info. Those UFDA's can really help a club - I think Jason Peters last year was a good surprise.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Don't be too sure about that stiff from BYU.

389777[/snapback]

 

Why do you judge Denney to be a stiff. We all have our fact-free opinion about players but I am really interested in any at least semi-objective stats or grounded in playing time rather than our non-professional observations of his play.

 

My own semi-objective assessment on Denney is this:

 

1. Denney flat out sucked his rookie year as indicated by the fact he was inactive for almost all games. My understanding of why he was inactive is that Denney was not bending over enough in his stance and when he engaged a blocker and that it didn't take much experience at all for an opponent to get leverage on him when engaged and easily toss him aside or let him fall the wrong way. Deney worked on this issue, and by the end of the season was at least effective enough to get activated a couple of times but there were better choices for the Bills for folks to play.

 

2. Denney greatly improved his ability to play and how he used his body in the off-season such that he was actually the best choice we had to start at LDE in 2003. He was essentially a first year player and really was not a good starter though he was better than the rookie Kelsay.

 

Denney became a fan whipping boy for several reasons:

 

A. Expectations were high on him because TD traded up to get him. These expectations of immediate contribution were not only stoked by us spending extra value to get him but after he took a couple of years for BYU mission work he is an older guy. When he proved to be so bad as a rookie and you only get one chance to make a first impression he deserved his initial rap as a bad player but this rap is hard to change unless you are phenomenal. Ufortunately, though I think he had a good season last year he is not phenomenal overall though he does actually even excel in some facets of the game.

 

B. The areas he is worst at are exactly the areas we fans expect good play. We fans were quite frankly spoiled by having a level of play at LDE which was defined by one of the best (if not the best) player in the history of the game with Bruce Smith at LDE. Many fans were disappointed when his replacement Wiley "only" put up double digit sacks and they argued he was not worth a big FA contract (which we actually had no money to meet the market for him anyway). Denney was going to be a disappointment virtually regardless of what he did and his rookie year was bad so fuggaboutit.

 

C. Many tokk the objetive fact that we drafted yet another LDE in the second round as an outside sign that Denney sucked. While yes this more than our fan rants and is attached to a real reason, merely asserting this is only due to Denny bit cutting the mustard ignores the fact that at the same time we were losing Wiley to FA, DT Vig Ted as a cap casualty, Hansen to retirement and all of this within a year of losing Bruce as a cap casualty we were switching from a Cottrell 3-4 that at least held its own to a 4-3 cause that was what GW knew and had succeeded with.

 

The two effects were that even if Denney had been great we still would likely have needed to draft a DT or LDE early in 2003, drafting a player who could pass rush was made necessary by Denney's failing there, but it should not be taken as clear evidence that Denney sucks, In fact a better football explanation (though this time a subjective one easily open to debate) is that actually Denney's play at least improved from sucking in 2002 to him being slotted in as a starter in 2003 by coaches who clearly were willing to sit him if they were not satisfied.

 

Further, by drafting Kelsay we got a player with a motor and some Schobel like pass rush skills that actually compliment the things which Denney does better than pass rushing. The two outside signs that Denney does have something to offer is that even when Kelsay was named the starter, the brainstrust still refers to him and Denny as virtul co-starters.

 

One might argue that the braintrust is just saying this to cover their butt. However, in addition to this outside sign there is actually some objectives signs which if ignored need to be met with objective arguments:

 

1. Denney saw some serious PT last year as the Bills only went with 3 DEs on a roster which had a heavy DL rotation which saw the # 3 DE get a good chunk of playing time.

2. Again one might argue that he only got playing time as a sop to avoid embarassment but the problem with this argumen is that our D with Denney getting a lot of PT was second statistically and was a good unit. Folks who say Denney simply still sucks in order for this to believe need to explain how the D was so good in so many facets playing a #3 DE a lot in rotation who simply sucked. Outside of fact-free opinion with little objective evidence outside of rants he does not produce enough sacks there really is little to indicate this is true.

3. Subjective arguments actually do ignore a couple of subjective points: a: a sackmaster at LDE would be great (in fact I think GW/Gray used Denney poorly initially demanding in 2002 that he fill the same role a stud like Jevon Kearse filled in TN with the GW 4-3. I suspect part of the reason he finally was able to start in 2003 was that we switched to a the LeBeau run blitz which employed Denney in a role which more suits his play as a guy who can surprisingly move around well (after his initial body articulation issues in 2002) and has long arms which effectivel allow him to drop back in short-zone coverage and merely raise his arms to make short passes to his side risky to do have to be thrown high and hard to a player. Even better the mobility he has (which reminds me of Ted the Stork Hendricks playing LB and doing pass coverage well) actually allows him to get back into the medium zone as a DE allowing Fletcher, Spikes er al to blitz and leave run blitz zone coverage to Denney, b: Denney has not exceled at pass rush but he has developed a rep of being stout against the run. Again the objective evidence that indicates this subjective assessment may be true is that he was lined up last year as a DT in sometimes. Part of the reason Phat Pat was easily sat on 3rd down and played less than 2/3 of the snaps was that Denny could relieve him in the rotation and I suspect part of the reason even Sam Adams was complaining he was being taken out was not only that Edwards filled in well for him, but that Denney also allowed for a rotation which saw both or our starting DTs sit. and c; if you want to disregard the subjective conclusion that Denney actually showed some athletic gifts because it disagrees with your own fact-free assessment, then explain why he actually was rewarded with some TE time and we even tried unsuccessfully to throw him a TD pass. i think MM (a TE psychotic if there ever was one) believes in Demmey's athletic skills.

 

D. At any rate I have prattled on long enough but suffice to say that I agree Denney initaled sucked but an objective look at his play indicates he has improved in his play both years. He is a little bit older so this improvement will not go on forever, but it is even possible that we may look back at 2004 and the breakout player may not be Kelsay as many suggest and hope but actually Denney who with proper use in the run bliz might get a couple of INTs or with continued use as a TE becomes the 2005 version of Butch Rolle, the funny thing will be some posters will still claim he sucks.