We traded Travis Henry?

[GG]

Unfortunately, subliminally unrecognized by most Bills fans, the prism through which we view Travis Henry has to include the foundation formed by Antowain Smith, Sammy Morris, Jonathan Linton & Shawn Bryson, and framed by John Fina & Marcus Spriggs.

 

Memories here tend to be short, so if I may refresh some minds back to 2001, when we were ecstatic about a running back who could actually gain 3 yards when hit in the backfield. Using that factoid as the measuring stick, 1,300 yards gained by Henry certainly affords him great accolades.

 

Where reality hits myth is Henry's failings in the overall game, when his services required it. Although the line continued to struggle, the weary QB could have used the help of a more polished back. As the team was near competitive form, an effort of more than one foot would have vaulted them to the precious play-off appearance.

 

We're going through the usual shenanigans on this board about a former player's value to the team.

 

To me, it's summarized as: Henry is no Linton, and Henry is no McGahee. And for that, I'm happy.

[AKC]

I might also add Pittman and that idiot Barlow to the short list. Counting Marshall and Emmit as well, that makes 5.

So there are only 25 other starters better than Henry.

389960[/snapback]

 

You might also sharpen the list by allowing Stephen Davis as the real Panther starter or better yet removing your qualification of "starting" running back. That would allow the Larry Johnsons, Steven Jacksons, Quentin Griffins, Chester Davises, DeShaun Fosters, etc. to bump Travis down the ladder even more under the assumptions of what they will all contribute to their teams this coming season barring an injury to the players in front of them.

 

The one thing I'll say in Mr. Henry's favor here though is that I've never figured out Chris Brown; his style suggests he'd be easy to get your hands on yet he pops some healthy runs complemented by his exceptional burst. On first glance he looks like a very replaceable back, we'll get a chance to see if Travis has what it takes to bump another back with serious flaws in his game.

[eball]

As is always on this board, former Bills are always trash, current Bills are worth more than gold. 

389804[/snapback]

umm...nope. henry was trashed pretty regularly even when he was playing. nobody is saying he doesn't have talent, but his deficiencies and lack of maturity are significant. he was traded because HE did not want to co-exist with a better RB.

[eball]

To me, it's summarized as: Henry is no Linton, and Henry is no McGahee.  And for that, I'm happy.

389964[/snapback]

well said, and i'll add this: henry is no longer here by HIS choice, not TD's. bills' fans should not be expected to fawn over a player who didn't want to be here and compete. the bills did not "do him wrong" by drafting a superior talent and asking him to fight for his job.

[34-78-83]

It's not very often that I disagree with Simon and AKC in the same thread, yet the fact remains here . And I'm only going with my eyes as they see the game of football here, statistics be damned, but I see some pretty broad sweeping brush strokes regarding Henry as a running back in this league. Somehow many of these brush strokes have become fact on this board. Maybe they are, but there are some respectable voices who also say it's not exactly as such.

 

To me, Henry is a guy who walked onto a lousy team and made his own expectations for himself. He was a dedicated player who was one of the hardest workers in the off-season year after year. Even with his limited intellect he was able to address many of his issues as an all around back in each off season he played here. He was certainly not a great back, and I learned that over time while many here knew it already, but mediocre is certainly not in line with what he did here until it was obvious even to him that there was a better back about to take the reigns away from him.

 

I dispute the claims of " poor in short yardage" given to him by what I perceive as a skewed memory of his final season here, where it became reality. Fact is, until that point the man used a "hit the hole" style to get the most he could get on every play. No he wasn't getting the "patient" yards that many Great backs get, but he also wasn't doing a jig in the backfield either and few NFL backs were quicker to the hole. He was ripping through the line and taking tacklers with him in a positive direction. He was a sharp cutter as well. He was considered at that point league wide to be a very good goal line back. That was not generated by the uneducated media IMO. As FFS often points out, TH improved greatly on his hands and routes in the receiving game from the low point he was at as a rookie. If many would have stepped aside the wall created by their own initial opinions, they would have seen this improvement and atleast respected the effort. He actually became quite reliable as an outlet man right about at the point where DB stopped seeing the field and often zoned in on other Receivers while TH often waived his hands in the air with an almost sure 4 to 5 yard gain.

 

The fumbling was yet another thing. While horrible in the 2002 season, he focussed on it for the 2003 season and improved immensely on his technique. Even the often mentioned dismall blitz pickup was one of his brighter points of a down 2004 season.

 

In watching every carry of his career as a Bill just as some of you have, I am confident in my opinion that TH was a good NFL back. He was never great, but gave great effort on every play. He played for his teamates, and played hurt. And most undeniably of all, you can look at your game tapes from the seasons he played here and find a game where the Bills were still in it going into the 2nd half and you'll see defenders shying away, throwing their arms out half assed reaching for him, backing off, and bouncing off #20. What we have in McGahee sure looks like a more complete player and a potential GREAT player (an I love it), but I will always appreciate what Henry did , and tried to do every down as a Bill while he was here.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

It's not very often that I disagree with Simon and AKC in the same thread, yet the fact remains here  . And I'm only going with my eyes as they see the game of football here, statistics be damned,  but I see some pretty broad sweeping brush strokes regarding Henry as a running back in this league. Somehow many of these brush strokes have become fact on this board. Maybe they are, but there are some respectable voices who also say it's not exactly as such.

 

  To me, Henry is a guy who walked onto a lousy team and made his own expectations for himself. He was a dedicated player who was one of the hardest workers in the off-season year after year. Even with his limited intellect he was able to address many of his issues as an all around back in each off season he played here. He was certainly not a great back, and I learned that over time while many here knew it already, but mediocre is certainly not in line with what he did here until it was obvious even to him that there was a better back about to take the reigns away from him.

 

  I dispute the claims of " poor in short yardage" given to him by what I perceive as a skewed memory of his final season here, where it became reality. Fact is, until that point the man used a  "hit the hole" style to get the most he could get on every play. No he wasn't getting the "patient" yards that many Great backs get, but he also wasn't doing a jig in the backfield either and few NFL backs were quicker to the hole. He was ripping through the line and taking tacklers with him in a positive direction. He was a sharp cutter as well. He was considered at that point league wide to be a very good goal line back. That was not generated by the uneducated media IMO. As FFS often points out, TH improved greatly on his hands and routes in the receiving game from the low point he was at as a rookie. If many would have stepped aside the wall created by their own initial opinions, they would have seen this improvement and atleast respected the effort. He actually became quite reliable as an outlet man right about at the point where DB stopped seeing the field and often zoned in on other Receivers while TH often waived his hands in the air with an almost sure 4 to 5 yard gain.

 

  The fumbling was yet another thing. While horrible in the 2002 season, he focussed on it for the 2003 season and improved immensely on his technique. Even the often mentioned dismall blitz pickup was one of his brighter points of a down 2004 season.

 

  In watching every carry of his career as a Bill just as some of you have, I am confident in my opinion  that TH was a good NFL back. He was never great, but gave great effort on every play. He played for his teamates, and played hurt. And most undeniably of all, you can look at your game tapes from the seasons he played here and find a game where the Bills were still in it going into the 2nd half and you'll see defenders shying away, throwing their arms out half assed reaching for him, backing off, and bouncing off #20. What we have in McGahee sure looks like a more complete player and a potential GREAT player (an I love it), but I will always appreciate what Henry did , and tried to do every down as a Bill while he was here.

390008[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks 34 for a thoughtful post which even beyond referencing my post simplies raises some thoughtful points which do not delare TH a god-on-earth as an RB 9he isn't) but simply point out that there were some very good features ot his game.

 

I certainly would have traded him once he showed he could play behind a much better (but not yet perfect) RB amd TD simply read and played the market well as both some of the folks (his customers) who care about the Bills deeply felt we would be lucky to get a second day pick for him and a few even said we should cut him (a good move to advocate if you are a relative of TH's but a move clearly against Bills interests which like it or not are better served with a first day pick than by nothing). In addition some pundits flat out accused TD of being a greedy idiot who hurt the Bills by passing on an offer of a 5th or of Shelton (who even if you like him trading for him would have been stupid as he was later cut as TD read the market perfectly even for those who disagree with the JMac anti-Shelton read.

 

We won't know for sure until we see how this Gandy thing (with a likely Teague plan B which will be somewhat dependent on the development of Preston) turns out, but TD gas to be given a lot credit for once again turning a player into a 1st day draft pick after the orginal agreement with the player had run out. While one may not want to give TD credit for having foresight one at least reasonably give him credit for being opportunistic which is one of the things a good GM should be.

 

No one should be embarassed at all for finding signficant fault with TD for clear boners he has pulled racking up a losing record on his watch and not making the playoffs with is team. I think he hired GW because he knew if GW tried to pull a Cowher he could beat him, but we paid the price for this bad HC hire. However, it is becoming pathetically embarassing to see some posters claim TD can do nothing write.

 

I thought my overly long posts displayed some degree of psychosis, but the post and avatars which declare TD a total loser rather than a mixed bag and somehow ignore the surprising WM pick, his stealing a 1st from AT, some great negitiations which seemed to bet Pro Bowlers like Adams and Spikes for seemingly lower than market rates, and even those who claim he sucks at drafting when his first pick for the Bills made the Pro Bowl and he and the gang even found a second day pick who made the Pro Bowl joining 2 FAs he hired who made it (and even these players rewarded by the pundits do not include our leading tackler Fletcher who was immediately made D captain after TD purchsed him for a song and the O player WM who many feel may be in the future rival Thurman in production and some think he will be one of the best in the league if he stays happy.

 

I shouldn't give the impression that I think WM is a sure star because one of the real key effects for Bills fans is that Rashard Lee better work and Shaud Williams deal with recurring hits, because there is a not unreasonable chance that these plan Bs will see significant time at least giving WM a blow if he stays healthy or step in for him if necessary.

 

You would think from some of the WM frothing which went on in some posts which seemed mostly to be inspired by a desire to trash Henry that the big question is why we did not start WM out of the box.

 

This view ignores the fact that actually WMs numbers logging signficant time due to some TH nicks (injuries I think he would have played through in the past but he gave up on his teammates when WM got drafted) were actually pretty much like TH's in terms of ypc.

 

I'm glad you highlighted the issue of TH run blitz pick-ups. While I did not share with you the feeling that he had his best year in his abbreviated 2004, I think your view is way closer to what I observed in passing than the notion stated by some folks whom I respect their other views than the generally unsubtantiated by any objective evidence that blitz pick-up was a notable problem for TH. Its hard to prove a negative that it didn't strike me as an issue particularly on an issue as statless as blitx pick-up. However, if folks are going to claim the positive that he was just awful at blitz pick-up they should easily be able to point to several examples in the 5 games he started where he blew a blitz pick-up to devastating results.

 

In addition, the notion trotted out by some that the sack numbers went down as soon as WM walked on the field and TH walked off due to WM being far better at blitz pickup was simply bizarre non9football thinking as best as I can tell. Again, my passing observation was WM like almost all rookies was not a pro at all in his initial blitz pick-up duties (if anything I think it was Shelton who blew one big time when WM was in the game). However, I don't remember many (any) cases of him being outstanding at it (I would certainly love to see a game and rough time estimate as I still have about 3/4 of laast year's games on tape and I easily could have missed it but I would not be surprised if the only response to a search for objective facts to support this claim is that of crickets chirping.

 

Add to that the utterly bizarre notion that a key to lower sacks overall is because of better blitz pick-up (it simply is a rare case as it is non-existent in the several empty backfield plays, is not the RB responsibility if the FB has the duty and the RB contribution is to go wide and bad receiver or good one take an RB with him). The notion that better blitz pick-up was the only factor (or even the lead factor) over other potential issues that probably were more important to loweing the sack total like:

 

1. Duh, JMac is no miracle worker but it doesn't take much to be a better OL organizer and teacher than Vinky and Ruel.

 

2. Duh, Kevin Killdrive was a predictable playcaller whom the rest of the league caught up with in 2003 and he refused to change his game. The opposing blitz game strikes me as far more effected by TC running Bledsoe for positive though not huge pick-ups forcing opponents not to sell out to the blitz or commit to easier outside routes, MM and TC establishing they would successfully call flea-flickers which also caused blitzers to delay as they closed in on the run and then he flipped back to DB.

 

3. Really bizarely is giving WM credit for fewer sacks due to his blitz pick-up when actually I think he more clearly deserved credit for being such a huge outside run threat with better speed than TH and one of the best stiff-arms in the league that defenders were thinking more about making sure they good get ouside with a good angle to beat the stiff-arm rather than thinking about what blitz angle to take.

 

The whole TH/WM blitz pick-up argument simply strikes me as unsubstantiated junk which even without any facts leaving fact-free opinion to back it up simply makes no sense even in theory as being the major reason for a drop in sack numbers.

 

Thank you 34.

[Dawgg]

THANK YOU.

 

Finally, someone on this thread who sees it the way I see it.

 

 

It's not very often that I disagree with Simon and AKC in the same thread, yet the fact remains here  . And I'm only going with my eyes as they see the game of football here, statistics be damned,  but I see some pretty broad sweeping brush strokes regarding Henry as a running back in this league. Somehow many of these brush strokes have become fact on this board. Maybe they are, but there are some respectable voices who also say it's not exactly as such.

 

  To me, Henry is a guy who walked onto a lousy team and made his own expectations for himself. He was a dedicated player who was one of the hardest workers in the off-season year after year. Even with his limited intellect he was able to address many of his issues as an all around back in each off season he played here. He was certainly not a great back, and I learned that over time while many here knew it already, but mediocre is certainly not in line with what he did here until it was obvious even to him that there was a better back about to take the reigns away from him.

 

  I dispute the claims of " poor in short yardage" given to him by what I perceive as a skewed memory of his final season here, where it became reality. Fact is, until that point the man used a  "hit the hole" style to get the most he could get on every play. No he wasn't getting the "patient" yards that many Great backs get, but he also wasn't doing a jig in the backfield either and few NFL backs were quicker to the hole. He was ripping through the line and taking tacklers with him in a positive direction. He was a sharp cutter as well. He was considered at that point league wide to be a very good goal line back. That was not generated by the uneducated media IMO. As FFS often points out, TH improved greatly on his hands and routes in the receiving game from the low point he was at as a rookie. If many would have stepped aside the wall created by their own initial opinions, they would have seen this improvement and atleast respected the effort. He actually became quite reliable as an outlet man right about at the point where DB stopped seeing the field and often zoned in on other Receivers while TH often waived his hands in the air with an almost sure 4 to 5 yard gain.

 

  The fumbling was yet another thing. While horrible in the 2002 season, he focussed on it for the 2003 season and improved immensely on his technique. Even the often mentioned dismall blitz pickup was one of his brighter points of a down 2004 season.

 

  In watching every carry of his career as a Bill just as some of you have, I am confident in my opinion  that TH was a good NFL back. He was never great, but gave great effort on every play. He played for his teamates, and played hurt. And most undeniably of all, you can look at your game tapes from the seasons he played here and find a game where the Bills were still in it going into the 2nd half and you'll see defenders shying away, throwing their arms out half assed reaching for him, backing off, and bouncing off #20. What we have in McGahee sure looks like a more complete player and a potential GREAT player (an I love it), but I will always appreciate what Henry did , and tried to do every down as a Bill while he was here.

390008[/snapback]

[AKC]

   In watching every carry of his career as a Bill just as some of you have, I am confident in my opinion  that TH was a good NFL back. He was never great, but gave great effort on every play. 

390008[/snapback]

 

I'm not sure how far apart our opinions on Travis really are, but I'd argue against your suggestion that Travis "played for his teamates"- Accepting "I don't wanna be a backup! I won't play if I'm a backup!" to be the model for "team" players would insult way to many real team players we've had on the Buffalo Bills and for that matter throughout the league.

 

Unlike much speculation on a Message Board there is actually good chance to see our assumptions regarding Travis tested in this case-

 

As I mentioned Travis seems to be entering a highly desirable situation for himself- a team with a long-ingrained Head Coach who likes to run the ball to set up his passing game. A starting RB who is not overwhelming in his skill set and may be prone to getting dinged up. An offense that doesn’t look for their backs to pull down a lot of passes.

 

For my money Travis is a tough guy physically but mentally he’s a cream puff. This flaw should also be hidden during his first year in TN since he’ll be focused enough to get everything he can out of every carry and ignore his overall role.

 

So the cards for Travis AFAIC this coming season are a pretty desirable hand- yet even with all that good news for him unless Brown is hurt I don’t see Travis taking the top spot. That leaves him with limited carries and a chance to average maybe 40 or 50 yards a game. If he does supplant a healthy Chris Brown then I’ll have to concede he’s got a better grip on his faults (pun intended) than I’ve recognized- but if he doesn’t move up their chart I’d think it would go far in supporting Travis as more of a “little engine that could” player who might very well be best suited for a more limited role than that of feature back in the NFL.

[Dawgg]

I do feel that the situation with Henry is way overblown. Yes, he voiced his opinion after McGahee was drafted and when pestered by reporters, he said the job is his and he expects to start for this team. He also said that he refuses to be a backup in this league. But for the most part, Travis took the high road. Numerous times he said to the media that while he doesn't like his role, he will accept what the coaches tell him... he never quit on this team. Ask any Bills offensive lineman and they would jump in front of a moving truck for Travis... they absolutely adored him and loved the fact that he was a warrior on the field and played like one. And trust me, if you're a team cancer, you will make enemies on the Line (see Randy Moss).

 

Travis was playing for the team he grew up rooting for, put up 2 solid seasons, and made 1 Pro Bowl. He was just personally hurt when the Bills drafted McGahee. As fans, we can see the logic in the draft choice. Not so sure we'd be so understanding were we in his shoes.

 

I personally don't want a player on my team who gives up his starting position with grace, especially when he's relatively young. This is a cut-throat league with great competition and you want guys who have that desire and believe that they should be a starter.

 

Travis voiced that desire, but was never a cancer (as many on the board like to harp)... however, if he stayed on the team this year, it would have been a different story.

 

 

I'm not sure how far apart our opinions on Travis really are, but I'd argue against your suggestion that Travis "played for his teamates"- Accepting "I don't wanna be a backup! I won't play if I'm a backup!" to be the model for "team" players would insult way to many real team players we've had on the Buffalo Bills and for that matter throughout the league.

390373[/snapback]

[Alaska Darin]

I do feel that the situation with Henry is way overblown.  Yes, he voiced his opinion after McGahee was drafted and when pestered by reporters, he said the job is his and he expects to start for this team.  He also said that he refuses to be a backup in this league.  But for the most part, Travis took the high road.  Numerous times he said to the media that while he doesn't like his role, he will accept what the coaches tell him... he never quit on this team.  Ask any Bills offensive lineman and they would jump in front of a moving truck for Travis... they absolutely adored him and loved the fact that he was a warrior on the field and played like one.  And trust me, if you're a team cancer, you will make enemies on the Line (see Randy Moss).

 

Travis was playing for the team he grew up rooting for, put up 2 solid seasons, and made 1 Pro Bowl.  He was just personally hurt when the Bills drafted McGahee.  As fans, we can see the logic in the draft choice.  Not so sure we'd be so understanding were we in his shoes.

 

I personally don't want a player on my team who gives up his starting position with grace, especially when he's relatively young.  This is a cut-throat league with great competition and you want guys who have that desire and believe that they should be a starter. 

 

Travis voiced that desire, but was never a cancer (as many on the board like to harp)... however, if he stayed on the team this year, it would have been a different story.

390545[/snapback]

It's not how he gave up his starting job, it's the perpetual whining that started with the draft pick. Winners put their noses to the grindstone when faced with adversity. Travis didn't do that and he didn't show himself to be a great competitor when it mattered most.

[John from Riverside]

I really think that Donahoe pulled a rabbit out of his hat on the Henry deal......

 

- Lets face it.....as soon as there was legit competition on the roster Travis Henry fell apart.....he couldn't handle it......

 

- His blitz pickup last year was fricken horrible.....I think we could have put a rookie in there and gotten a better effort......I dont want to turn this into a "I love Willis" thread but lets face it.....there was a noticable difference from when Willis was doing compared to Travis...and it was WILLIS' FIRST YEAR

 

- He was never going to be a outlet receiver.....his shelf life with the way he runs is going to be short

 

- He was NOT coming back this year

 

- Rather then trade Travis in what a lot considered to be a weak draft...he got a 3rd which could be a very good 3rd in a much deeper draft

 

- We could package that pick and move up.....it gives us great flexibility

[Bill from NYC]

Great post John!

Funny, one poster in this thread is purporting Travis to be a good receiver. Another went as far as to proclaim that picking up the blitz was a highlight of his dreadful 04 season! If this utter lunacy were to be true, Willis would be a non-issue because he wouldn't have been drafted. TD probably would have grabbed Steinbach to play LG.

TD did a GREAT job unloading a player who had such a dismal season in 04 for a 3rd. You are right, this pick can be used to move up if need be. It certainly gives TD more options.

If you believe TD, he said that making the trade was extremely difficult to do, and even likened it to his wife going through labor.

In any event it is over, and my sincere congrats go out to TD!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reuben Gant]

Great post John!

Funny, one poster in this thread is purporting Travis to be a good receiver. Another went as far as to proclaim that picking up the blitz was a highlight of his dreadful 04 season! If this utter lunacy were to be true, Willis would be a non-issue because he wouldn't have been drafted. TD probably would have grabbed Steinbach to play LG.

TD did a GREAT job unloading a player who had such a dismal season in 04 for a 3rd. You are right, this pick can be used to move up if need be. It certainly gives TD more options.

If you believe TD, he said that making the trade was extremely difficult to do, and even likened it to his wife going through labor.

In any event it is over, and my sincere congrats go out to TD!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

390615[/snapback]

Two thirds will give the Bills a lot of leverage to move come draft day.

[34-78-83]

Great post John!

Funny, one poster in this thread is purporting Travis to be a good receiver. Another went as far as to proclaim that picking up the blitz was a highlight of his dreadful 04 season! If this utter lunacy were to be true, Willis would be a non-issue because he wouldn't have been drafted. TD probably would have grabbed Steinbach to play LG.

TD did a GREAT job unloading a player who had such a dismal season in 04 for a 3rd. You are right, this pick can be used to move up if need be. It certainly gives TD more options.

If you believe TD, he said that making the trade was extremely difficult to do, and even likened it to his wife going through labor.

In any event it is over, and my sincere congrats go out to TD!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

390615[/snapback]

 

Again, based on both my own eyes , and from the radio commentary of AVP (he would usually say when a sack was given up whose actual responsibility it was on the play and it often conflicted with what "experts" thought here) Travis DID show improvement in the blitz pickup area in '04. The next sentence you mention about "lunacy" makes absolutely no sense at all if you read it again. And why not provide more than mockery in response? It is also a fact that he improved in receiving and route skills and showed this both in later '03 and in his final year, making difficult catches at times from so called "touch" passes from DB. This does not say that he was ever a great back, or even great at any of these particular skills, only that he did improve, especially from 2001 thru 2003.

 

I think TD did a great job with the trade as well and am happy with it by the way.

[Alaska Darin]

Travis DID show improvement in the blitz pickup area in '04.

390639[/snapback]

Moving from abysmal to mediocre isn't saying a whole lot. The reality is, when he was in the game defenses were MUCH more willing to blitz to his side and were very successful doing it (Drew in the headlights certainly helped with that as well).

[Bill from NYC]

Again, based on both my own eyes , and from the radio commentary of AVP (he would usually say when a sack was given up whose actual responsibility it was on the play and it often conflicted with what "experts" thought here) Travis DID show improvement in the blitz pickup area in '04. The next sentence you mention about "lunacy" makes absolutely no sense at all if you read it again.    And why not provide more than mockery in response? It is also a fact that he improved  in receiving and route skills and showed this both in later '03 and in his  final year, making difficult catches at times from so called "touch" passes from DB. This does not say that he was ever a great back, or even great at any of these particular skills, only that he did improve, especially from 2001 thru 2003.

 

I think TD did a great job with the trade as well and am happy with it by the way.

390639[/snapback]

 

OK, let's just completely ignore the fact that sacks were drastically reduced when Travis was benched. It made little to no difference. Sound good?

 

I will admit that it is sometimes tough to assign blame for sacks. I truly believe that Travis was too stupid to even comprehend what his assignment actually was.

 

Why don't we wait and see just how stellar his performances are at Tenn.? It wont be long. I have a feeling that poor McNair is going to be one hurtin' SOB.

[34-78-83]

Moving from abysmal to mediocre isn't saying a whole lot.  The reality is, when he was in the game defenses were MUCH more willing to blitz to his side and were very successful doing it (Drew in the headlights certainly helped with that as well).

390643[/snapback]

 

I won't argue with you there. I was pointing out his ability to learn and improve even with his limited intellect.

[34-78-83]

OK, let's just completely ignore the fact that sacks were drastically reduced when Travis was benched. It made little to no difference. Sound good?

 

I will admit that it is sometimes tough to assign blame for sacks. I truly believe that Travis was too stupid to even comprehend what his assignment actually was.

 

Why don't we wait and see just how stellar his performances are at Tenn.? It wont be long. I have a feeling that poor McNair is going to be one hurtin' SOB. 

390644[/snapback]

 

I think the problem here for me is that when you receive debate or rebutal re: any TH topic it seems that you assume the person on the other end thinks he's great or something. Often times for me, I am simply refuting what I consider "lunacy" like comments that he flat out cannot catch or block, period... Call it nitpicking if you want.

[IDBillzFan]

Winners put their noses to the grindstone when faced with adversity.

390557[/snapback]

Where do Losers put their noses?

 

Nevermind. I'll ask at the next FAT.

[stuckincincy]

Where do Losers put their noses?

 

Nevermind. I'll ask at the next FAT.

390676[/snapback]

 

 

I'd hazard, into their beer mugs. Makes one think, who is the real loser...