finknottle Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 He goes down in week one, and TD's fired mid-season. 388796[/snapback] LOL, it's almost time to start the firing threads!
Rico Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 LT: Teague LG: Gandy C: Preston if he's ready / Tucker if he's not RG: Villareal RT: MW could be the best line-up based on who we've got now.
Guest BackInDaDay Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 LOL, it's almost time to start the firing threads! 388801[/snapback] Ah, to be a Bill's fan. Seriously though, I do expect JP to get knocked around a bit unless TD comes up with a veteran LT, or MM, TC and JM can find a ways to consistently attack a D's right side and keep opponents on their heels. It will be interesting. I don't know what Mouse has seen in Gandy, or anyone else, that leads him to believe he already has a capable man for the LT spot. Honestly, I think TD is asking him to make silk purses out of sow's ears. Yup, that's what I said. Bet you didn't know the 'day' in 'backindaday' was circa 1865!
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 Ah, to be a Bill's fan. Seriously though, I do expect JP to get knocked around a bit unless TD comes up with a veteran LT, or MM, TC and JM can find a ways to consistently attack a D's right side and keep opponents on their heels. It will be interesting. I don't know what Mouse has seen in Gandy, or anyone else, that leads him to believe he already has a capable man for the LT spot... Uh yeah, I think that's the point. You HAVEN'T seen what Mouse has seen. And unless the defense, ST's, and running game are stinking up the joint, I don't see JP getting enough passing plays in TO get hurt. Not to mention the Texans have NO pass rush.
Bill from NYC Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 while it's all fun and games to speculate at this point, the truth is that none of us know jack schitt. that said, i think four of the OL starters are pretty much set and there's not a whole lot to talk about: RT - williams RG - villareal C - teague LG - anderson i just don't think the bills would put a rookie C out there w/ a 2nd year QB. too much inexperience at the two most important positions, communication-wise, on the offense. at LT, the bills are saying it's gandy's position to lose. that may or may not be true. i'm looking forward to the first preseason game to see who trots out w/ the first unit. 388690[/snapback] Nice Post!!! Using your exact intro, here goes.... LT: Teague LG: Anderson OC: Tucker RG: Villarial RT: Williams Gandy? I want to see him make the team before I predict him to be the LT of an otherwise seemingly strong football team. The Bears were desperate enough for OL help to sign a clearly finished Ruben Brown. Why did they get rid of this guy if he can play? McNally already convinced me that he is an extremely sharp coach; I will go as far as to label him a difference maker. If he can make a good LT out of Gandy, he is the best OL coach in the NFL, period. Just my uneducated speculation.
eball Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 Gandy? I want to see him make the team before I predict him to be the LT of an otherwise seemingly strong football team. The Bears were desperate enough for OL help to sign a clearly finished Ruben Brown. Why did they get rid of this guy if he can play? McNally already convinced me that he is an extremely sharp coach; I will go as far as to label him a difference maker. If he can make a good LT out of Gandy, he is the best OL coach in the NFL, period. Just my uneducated speculation. 388885[/snapback] the only thing i keep thinking, with respect to gandy, is that you consistently see examples of guys who were unsuccessful early in their careers but "got it" as they matured and became solid performers. this is particularly true for O-linemen. i agree, i have nothing upon which to base any confidence aside from the fact that the bills' coaches seem to like him. we'll see.
Albany,n.y. Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 the only thing i keep thinking, with respect to gandy, is that you consistently see examples of guys who were unsuccessful early in their careers but "got it" as they matured and became solid performers. this is particularly true for O-linemen. i agree, i have nothing upon which to base any confidence aside from the fact that the bills' coaches seem to like him. we'll see. 388892[/snapback] The only problem is that all indications are Gandy has always been a model citizen, has the smarts & never had weight problems. Most of the "got it" types either struggled with weight or maturity. In Gandy's case, he's going to have to improve on his natural abilities-a tough thing for a guy with no other problems.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 The only problem is that all indications are Gandy has always been a model citizen, has the smarts & never had weight problems. Most of the "got it" types either struggled with weight or maturity. In Gandy's case, he's going to have to improve on his natural abilities-a tough thing for a guy with no other problems. Gandy's "other problems" were inexperience and lousy coaching, if not lack of supporting cast. I'll wait to see how he does without those problems before I start saying the Bills are DOOMED!
Guest BackInDaDay Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 Uh yeah, I think that's the point. You HAVEN'T seen what Mouse has seen. And unless the defense, ST's, and running game are stinking up the joint, I don't see JP getting enough passing plays in TO get hurt. Not to mention the Texans have NO pass rush. 388863[/snapback] McNally's a good coach. I live in NJ, and read all the stories how he put together the line in '03 that brought the Giants to the SB. I think he has more to work with here, now, then he had there, then. He certainly has more guards. Our STs may not set scoring records this season, but I'm sure they'll be solid. I think our D remains very solid, with very good veterans supported by very good young players. But unless you think we can run the ball into the line 3 times for 10 yards consistently, JP will be asked to make plays. That was the point in releasing Drew. He took us as far as his talent allowed, and now we're all hoping JP has that extra gear that get's points on the board in the tough spots where Bledsoe failed. I don't expect Mularkey and Clements, who have already demonstrated their flair for using their skill people in creative ways, to dumb down a thing for JP. I'm sure they're confident that all of his off-season work with Wyche will show up in game situations. There will be times when an opposing coach throws something at our O that confuses JP, and our entire line finds itself having to hold the fort. This happens to veterans and rookies alike, but that's not what I'm referring to. My original point was that as much as JP's mobility has been talked up, there our ways to defend him, and Mularkey, Clements, McNally and Wyche have been devising ways to attack those same defenses since the end of last season. For instance, they showed us their H-back formations last year. Our weak-side TE (Euhus or Nuefeld) shifting into the back-field to help pick up the blind-side blitz while posing a threat as a screen man or outlet. All big 'ol JJ had to do was engage the man coming off his corner, and let the H-back either mop up the inside or break out into space. This gives D coordinaters fits, and gets them to pull the reins in. These types of H-back and RB reads are responsble for lessening the zone-blitzes popularity in recent years. Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to say it, but I believe the lack of an experienced LT on the roster will restrict what our coaches can do. So much hinges on Mouse's ability to convert Gandy from OG to OT. Going into the season, with what may be our line's weakest link protecting our QB's blind-side, is very unsettling.
Albany,n.y. Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 So much hinges on Mouse's ability to convert Gandy from OG to OT. 388978[/snapback] Not necessarily. If McNally is so good, there are a lot of other candidates on the roster to choose from if/when Gandy doesn't cut it at LT with the pads on. I think too much emphasis is placed on whether Gandy will succeed, just because the pre-training camp depth chart has him #1. He could be an utter flop and we can field a good OL with either Teague at LT & Tucker at center, or one of the other guys from camp. Why do so many think that McNally is good enough to get Gandy to be the #1 LT, yet are so skeptical about his ability to coach up Teague to be the #1 LT?
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 McNally's a good coach. I live in NJ, and read all the stories how he put together the line in '03 that brought the Giants to the SB. I think he has more to work with here, now, then he had there, then. He certainly has more guards. Our STs may not set scoring records this season, but I'm sure they'll be solid. I think our D remains very solid, with very good veterans supported by very good young players. But unless you think we can run the ball into the line 3 times for 10 yards consistently, JP will be asked to make plays. That was the point in releasing Drew. He took us as far as his talent allowed, and now we're all hoping JP has that extra gear that get's points on the board in the tough spots where Bledsoe failed. I don't expect Mularkey and Clements, who have already demonstrated their flair for using their skill people in creative ways, to dumb down a thing for JP. I'm sure they're confident that all of his off-season work with Wyche will show up in game situations. There will be times when an opposing coach throws something at our O that confuses JP, and our entire line finds itself having to hold the fort. This happens to veterans and rookies alike, but that's not what I'm referring to. My original point was that as much as JP's mobility has been talked up, there our ways to defend him, and Mularkey, Clements, McNally and Wyche have been devising ways to attack those same defenses since the end of last season. For instance, they showed us their H-back formations last year. Our weak-side TE (Euhus or Nuefeld) shifting into the back-field to help pick up the blind-side blitz while posing a threat as a screen man or outlet. All big 'ol JJ had to do was engage the man coming off his corner, and let the H-back either mop up the inside or break out into space. This gives D coordinaters fits, and gets them to pull the reins in. These types of H-back and RB reads are responsble for lessening the zone-blitzes popularity in recent years. Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to say it, but I believe the lack of an experienced LT on the roster will restrict what our coaches can do. So much hinges on Mouse's ability to convert Gandy from OG to OT. Going into the season, with what may be our line's weakest link protecting our QB's blind-side, is very unsettling. True the Bills won't be running the ball 3 times in a row and JP will have to make plays. But I don't necessarily think it will be JP needing to make BIG plays. I look at the Pats with Brady back in 2001. Use good defense, ST's, and the running game, and dink and dunk 'em to death. Also add-in JP's mobility for that extra dimension.
Reuben Gant Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 With the state of Free Agency in the NFL, I often wonder if the coach is more important than the talent. I have more faith in McNally than any single member of this prospective line. I think with Willis and a more mobile QB this unit will come out looking good.
finknottle Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 With the state of Free Agency in the NFL, I often wonder if the coach is more important than the talent. I have more faith in McNally than any single member of this prospective line. I think with Willis and a more mobile QB this unit will come out looking good. 389005[/snapback] Hail 'Dear Leader'! Don't take this as knocking your point - I agree. And you raise a very interesting question. But I am worried about the growing McNally worship...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 The lessening of the sacks number last year when we finally started to develop an offense was less a matter of talent on the line coming together, or Drew getting smarter and dumping the ball off quicker, or even Willis being a better blocker than Travis, although all of those are true and helped. The main difference was that MM and TC are smart (unlike Killdrive and GW) and they knew they had a problem, and they used the TEs and the RBs to chip the DEs and LBs rushing the passer on their way out in routes. This gave DB an extra moment to throw. I'm sure they will do a lot of this and other things to protect Gandy. One of them, surely, will be a rolling pocket. Another of them, surely, will be bootlegs. Another of them, surely, will be rolling out Losman to his right, where he is very accurate throwing on the run. Another one, surely, will be screen passes and short dump offs to Willis to the left side, which Drew always struggled with, but when used effectively neutralize the strong rush. Those plays and ability to do that alone, regardless of who is playing LT, will retard the rush from the RDE significantly. Ooops. I said retard.
JoeF Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 The lessening of the sacks number last year when we finally started to develop an offense was less a matter of talent on the line coming together, or Drew getting smarter and dumping the ball off quicker, or even Willis being a better blocker than Travis, although all of those are true and helped. The main difference was that MM and TC are smart (unlike Killdrive and GW) and they knew they had a problem, and they used the TEs and the RBs to chip the DEs and LBs rushing the passer on their way out in routes. This gave DB an extra moment to throw. I'm sure they will do a lot of this and other things to protect Gandy. One of them, surely, will be a rolling pocket. Another of them, surely, will be bootlegs. Another of them, surely, will be rolling out Losman to his right, where he is very accurate throwing on the run. Another one, surely, will be screen passes and short dump offs to Willis to the left side, which Drew always struggled with, but when used effectively neutralize the strong rush. Those plays and ability to do that alone, regardless of who is playing LT, will retard the rush from the RDE significantly. Ooops. I said retard. 389023[/snapback] Agree wholeheartedly Kelly. We have a staff controlling the offensive scheme that is more tied to adjusting to the talent we have rather than making that talent adjust to their script. Its amazing what a difference that can make.
Brandon Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 Hail 'Dear Leader'! Don't take this as knocking your point - I agree. And you raise a very interesting question. But I am worried about the growing McNally worship... 389018[/snapback] He's a good coach, but he's not a miracle worker. His final year with the Giants was awful. Was that his fault? No. He had nothing to work with. Unless someone like Jason Peters steps up and suprises, most likely the LT position will be manned by someone who is adequate at best and a turnstile at worst. I've heard this crap about good coaching before and I'm not buying it. The players are the ones who take the field and if they've got no talent, no amount of coaching is going to change that. This team has been cutting corners on the OL for the last 10 years with pitiful results. Donahoe has done a little better than Butler, but we're still relying upon other teams to do the dirty work for us. How many Bills draft picks are starting on this OL for '05? One. This team has done a pathetic job of developing OL talent in-house, and its largely because they don't even try. Odds are, we'll be debating next April which LT we need to pick in R1. Of course, you can bet the Bills won't actually do it, no matter how bad the situation gets this year.
Bill from NYC Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 He's a good coach, but he's not a miracle worker. His final year with the Giants was awful. Was that his fault? No. He had nothing to work with. Unless someone like Jason Peters steps up and suprises, most likely the LT position will be manned by someone who is adequate at best and a turnstile at worst. I've heard this crap about good coaching before and I'm not buying it. The players are the ones who take the field and if they've got no talent, no amount of coaching is going to change that. This team has been cutting corners on the OL for the last 10 years with pitiful results. Donahoe has done a little better than Butler, but we're still relying upon other teams to do the dirty work for us. How many Bills draft picks are starting on this OL for '05? One. This team has done a pathetic job of developing OL talent in-house, and its largely because they don't even try. Odds are, we'll be debating next April which LT we need to pick in R1. Of course, you can bet the Bills won't actually do it, no matter how bad the situation gets this year. 389032[/snapback] Your post is sad, but 100% true.
Bill from NYC Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 The lessening of the sacks number last year when we finally started to develop an offense was less a matter of talent on the line coming together, or Drew getting smarter and dumping the ball off quicker, or even Willis being a better blocker than Travis, although all of those are true and helped. The main difference was that MM and TC are smart (unlike Killdrive and GW) and they knew they had a problem, and they used the TEs and the RBs to chip the DEs and LBs rushing the passer on their way out in routes. This gave DB an extra moment to throw. I'm sure they will do a lot of this and other things to protect Gandy. One of them, surely, will be a rolling pocket. Another of them, surely, will be bootlegs. Another of them, surely, will be rolling out Losman to his right, where he is very accurate throwing on the run. Another one, surely, will be screen passes and short dump offs to Willis to the left side, which Drew always struggled with, but when used effectively neutralize the strong rush. Those plays and ability to do that alone, regardless of who is playing LT, will retard the rush from the RDE significantly. Ooops. I said retard. 389023[/snapback] You make some good, if not wishful points, but Mike Williams coming in out of shape had a negative impact as well. Remember, he was not playing all that well until 10/31, when he was given a game ball vs. the Cardinals. I also agree that our present staff will be smart enough to adapt the game plan to our strengths. This is a good thing, but Brandon is right. It is time for the Bills to bring us more talent up front, especially at the LT position. Although a dominant LT is not a pre-requisite to a superbowl appearance, it sure helps. Giants (Elliot) Bengals (Munoz) Rams (Pace) Ravens (Ogden) Cowboys (OK, Tunei was no Pace, but the entire OL was great) Raiders (Art Shell) Titans (Hopkins in his prime) Steelers (again, the entire OL was dominant) The Redskins were so strong with the "Hogs" that they were able to reach the superbowl with qbs (Rypken, Williams) who were rather pedestrian. Again, I am as pleased with the staff as you. I am thinking that MM will have a long, fruitful career as an NFL coach. I also think that the Bills will not be a complete football team until we can enter a season with a talented and deep OL. The Bills are a blue collar, cold weather football team that needs to run the football. CV was simply a GREAT acquisition toward this end but there is more work to do, and LT seems to be the place in need. At least there is good news. The Bills have an extra, hopefully early 3rd round pick in a draft said to be rich in LTs. When draft day 06 approaches, you will be glad about that; this I know.
Fan in San Diego Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 On opening day, in obvious passing downs, Dom Capers will rotate his D to JP's right side, and ask his LDE get upfield to contain roll-out/sprint passes from the right-handed QB. He will also come with a combination of pressures off JP's left side to contain any retreat. A great example of this type of D was Philly vs Atlanta in last year's playoff where Jevon Kearse was disciplined enough to keep outside containment on Vick, forcing him back inside to face pressure. MM and TC knew that opposing Ds would gameplan their young, athletic QB this way the second they released Bledsoe. They already have good O gameplans to attack the D in these situations, but do they have the personnel on the O-line to execute them? How productive Mouse's line is in these situations, facing Houston's aggressive D, will tell us all alot about where our O line is and what they're capable of. So here's my 'we're doomed' prediction. I don't think we have a talented enough LT on our roster to protect JP's blind-side and keep him healthy the entire season. He goes down in week one, and TD's fired mid-season. 388796[/snapback] Interesting opinion. Fortunately there will be heavy doses of Willis and the TE position to keep pressure off of JP while he learns the position. He wont have to roll out and be expected to make the throw very often. A lot of hand offs to Willis until the DE's respect the run and then JP will have time to roll out and throw.
Recommended Posts