Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I was speaking to an English friend of mine about the recent terror attacks in the UK. HE shot back with a rather enlightening reply about an issue that I had heard of before but never took seriously. That my fellow countrymen would have done such a thing is repugnant to say the least, and I'll guarantee most of the people behind it are Democrats and Unionized. Here's the text of his message: "PIRA received funding from America and Americans and were legally endorsed in doing so, until after September11th. After that the fun freedom fighters of jolly old Ireland became terrorists. I am sure they were rather surprised to have their radio stations and PIRA endorsements removed overnight. If you want to know more about it then you could search for information on NORAID, PIRA and American Government action. Everyone involved with this issue knows that NORAID did not and does not just fund the political activities of Sinn Fein and humanitarian causes. To be fair some American Governments did try and assist in the peace process, but it was done mainly on the premise that PIRA, though unpleasant, was acting on the basis of a legitimate response – clearly not something which anyone in the USA administration would now want applied to Islamic extremists. I should at this point declare an interest. I am a former serving British Army Officer. A friend of mine was killed by PIRA (an Army Officer so that made him a ‘legitimate target’ apparently, if people want a more palatable one we could always list all the civilians they murdered I suppose) and on the anniversary, every year, cards come to his Regiment from the children of American NORAID supporters, cards signed by many children, saying how glad they are he was dead, killed by ‘those fighting for a united Ireland against British Imperialism’ (a central message of NORAID). Cards which they want passed to his widow. Every year she asks me when we get together if the cards have stopped. They haven’t yet. These activities were not condemned or restricted officially until after September 11th. A request to remove posters openly advocating the murder of British soldiers displayed in New York on St Patrick’s day was declined by the Mayor 6 years ago and accepted last year. What changed? Not the dead. PIRA are no different from Islamic murderers, they are all murderers. People still died. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, kids. Murder is murder and the motives were no more noble for the Irish (on either side of the fight) than for Islamic fundamentalists. Until September 11th America wrote off our issues with PIRA and some Americans (not all) glorified them with no official restriction. I am not suggesting this was general amongst the American public or Americans in general, but the fact is this was official policy. Nor am I suggesting we never make mistakes. If people want to address the appeasement and endorsement of terrorism perhaps write to any of your Congressmen who served 1969-2001 and who ignored the issue of Irish terrorist murder because terrorism did not matter to them as long as it was just us dying. And if it was just a British issue then why has there been a crackdown now? Don’t get me wrong I welcome it with open arms, I am glad the Bush administration has taken the action it has. I am simply sorry it has taken a long time. I attended PIRA incidents in the past and I was in London on 7th July. The results on people are the same. We have been in a war on terror for many years. Now it seems we fight it together and I for one welcome that as well." Repugnant behavior to say the least. I'm wondering if any of YOU were among the contributors to the IRA's cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Repugnant behavior to say the least. I'm wondering if any of YOU were among the contributors to the IRA's cause. 387904[/snapback] There was a time when many cops would go door to door to pass the hat. Shamefully, lots of this money came from New York/Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 There was a time when many cops would go door to door to pass the hat.Shamefully, lots of this money came from New York/Buffalo. 387915[/snapback] Indeed. Shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 And the "peaceful Irish" in the USA didn't speak out against the terrorism, did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 And the "peaceful Irish" in the USA didn't speak out against the terrorism, did they? 388052[/snapback] When tactics changed to bombs - many a barfight was had when someone refused to "give" on principle. I also know of many who put IRA kids up for the summer if their Pa was in jail. Unfortunately many of us were raised to blindly hate the English. It was a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 When tactics changed to bombs - many a barfight was had when someone refused to "give" on principle. I also know of many who put IRA kids up for the summer if their Pa was in jail. Unfortunately many of us were raised to blindly hate the English. It was a sin. 388076[/snapback] Funny, that. Thank God I'm Polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Funny, that. Thank God I'm Polish. 388101[/snapback] Well that explains your affinity for polyester and bowling shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Well that explains your affinity for polyester and bowling shoes. 388118[/snapback] LMFAO! You rat bastard. What are you, Italian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 LMFAO! You rat bastard. What are you, Italian? 388148[/snapback] Great Dane/Doberman by the looks of his picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 LMFAO! You rat bastard. What are you, Italian? 388148[/snapback] American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I abhor bombings and any indiscriminate attacks that can injure civilians. I am no fan of the IRA, and have never donated to anything that could be related to them. Having said that, the British still occupy Irish soil. They've left China, India, and all the other countries they colonized when they sought to make the world British, yet still remain in Ireland. Forgive me if I don't make the leap from IRA to Islamic extremist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I'll guarantee most of the people behind it are Democrats and Unionized. 387904[/snapback] Rather than blame this on Democrats and Unionized people, why don't you just put the blame where it belongs: Irish. Most of the people were also white, so let's make it into a racist thing. Most were also men, so let's make it a gender thing. Most were also beer drinkers, so let's put the blame on beer drinkers. You're right that this was a scandal, but you're wrong when you attribute it to people other than the Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 I abhor bombings and any indiscriminate attacks that can injure civilians. I am no fan of the IRA, and have never donated to anything that could be related to them. Having said that, the British still occupy Irish soil. They've left China, India, and all the other countries they colonized when they sought to make the world British, yet still remain in Ireland. Forgive me if I don't make the leap from IRA to Islamic extremist... 388177[/snapback] Both bomb innocents for religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Both bomb innocents for religion. 388181[/snapback] Perhaps you missed the part about Britain occupying Irish soil? Believe me, if Britain leaves the IRA won't be bombing anywhere in England over religion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Both bomb innocents for religion. 388181[/snapback] I don't think that is it. Religion just helps define the social differences, they aren't doing it "for religion." But yes both bomb innocents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 "Those who governed in London at the time failed their people through standing by while a crop failure turned into a massive human tragedy. We must not forget such a dreadful event." -Tony Blair, British Prime Minister June 1997 From the Greek word for tribe (or race), genos, and the Latin term -cide, the word genocide refers to the extermination of the peoples of a nation (or religious group) carried out by an organization, usually a government. Such is the case when discussing the British treatment of Ireland during the potato blight; treatment which was based in the history of Ireland. William Makepiece Thackcray wrote: "...It is a frightful document against ourselves...one of the most melancholy stories in the whole world of insolence, rapine, brutal, endless slaughter and persecution on the part of the English master...There is no crime ever invented by eastern or western barbarians, no torture or Roman persecution or Spanish Inquisition, no tyranny of Nero or Alva but can be matched in the history of England in Ireland." (Metress, 2) A famine did not truly exist. There was no food shortage in Ireland evidenced by the fact that the British landowners continued to have a varied diet and food stuffs were exported. This was not the first failure of the potato crop in the history of Ireland. The starvation (and genocide) occurred as the British carried on their historical exploitation of the Irish people, failed to take appropriate action in the face of the failure of the potato crop, and maintained their racist attitude toward the Irish. The Penal Laws, first passed in 1695. were strictly enforced. These laws made it illegal for Catholics (Irish) to own land, and required the transfer of property from Catholics to Protestants; to have access to an education, and eliminated Gaelic as a language while preventing the development of an educated class; to enter professions, forcing the Irish to remain as sharecropping farmers; or to practice their religion. In addition, Catholics (Irish) could not vote, hold an office, purchase land, join the army, or engage in commerce. Simply put, the British turned the Irish into nothing better than slaves, subsisting on their small rented farms. The exportation of wheat, oats, barley, and rye did nothing to help the financial status of the poor farmer. The produce was used to pay taxes and rents to the English landlords, who then sold the farm products for great profit. These profits did nothing for the economy of Ireland, but did help the English landlords to prosper. The Irish farmer was forced to remain in poverty, and reliant on one crop, potato, for his subsistence. The potato became the dominant crop for the poor of Ireland as it was able to provide the greatest amount of food for the least acreage. Farming required a large family to tend the crops and the population grew as a result of need. Poverty forced the Irish to rely upon the potato and the potato kept the Irish impoverished. As the economic situation worsened, landlords who had the legal power to do so, evicted their Irish tenant farmers, filling the workhouses with poor, underfed, and diseased human beings who were destined to die. A caption under a picture shown in The Pictorial Times, October 10, 1846, best describes the circumstances of the great starvation, and the nature of the genocide: "Around them is plenty; rickyards, in full contempt, stand under their snug thatch, calculating the chances of advancing prices; or, the thrashed grain safely stored awaits only the opportunity of conveyance to be taken far away to feed strangers...But a strong arm interposes to hold the maddened infuriates away. Property laws supersede those of Nature. Grain is of more value than blood. And if they attempt to take of the fatness of the land that belongs to their lords, death by musketry, is a cheap government measure to provide for the wants of a starving and incensed people."(Food Riots, 2) It is time for the world to stop referring to this disastrous period in Irish history as the Great Famine, and to fully realize, and to acknowledge, the magnitude of the crime that systematically destroyed Irish nationalism, the Irish economy, the Irish culture, and the Irish people. Irish Genocide But yeah, let's compare the IRA to Islamic terrorists...your British friend can go fug himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 But yeah, let's compare the IRA to Islamic terrorists... 388189[/snapback] Islamic terrorists usually don't drink. That's one powerful difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Islamic terrorists usually don't drink. That's one powerful difference. 388195[/snapback] First off: Huh? What's that got to do with anything? (or were you trying to be funny?) Secondly, there were numorous reports of the 9-11 perps getting hammered in bars near their flight schools. Apparently Muslims can be the same as other religious practitioners in ignoring tenets of their religion when it suits them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 First off: Huh? What's that got to do with anything? (or were you trying to be funny?) Secondly, there were numorous reports of the 9-11 perps getting hammered in bars near their flight schools. Apparently Muslims can be the same as other religious practitioners in ignoring tenets of their religion when it suits them... 388202[/snapback] Yes, trying to be funny, and nice point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 What about those Scandanavians? http://66.188.129.72:5980/History/PreModer...ngs_europe2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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