nick in* england Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 that is the question that the patriots have asked their players since belechick arrived. it's up to nate to decide his path. 385680[/snapback] REALLY god point - I wouldn't mind a bit of the Pats example in Buffalo. TD and MM should say to the guys - we'll pay you fairly, but if you want MEGA money over success that you're free to go. If you have the hunger and you want to be a part of this organisation that has SERIOUS ambitions to win a championship then take our offer and let's hit the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 REALLY god point - I wouldn't mind a bit of the Pats example in Buffalo. TD and MM should say to the guys - we'll pay you fairly, but if you want MEGA money over success that you're free to go. If you have the hunger and you want to be a part of this organisation that has SERIOUS ambitions to win a championship then take our offer and let's hit the field. 385830[/snapback] Nate Clements will want his payday. Can you blame him? If TD tells that to Nate he's history for sure. Nate deserves to get paid like a top 5 corner in the NFL. Terrence McGee is more likely to stay in Buffalo. I think TD will get him resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 that TD wants to lock him up now so he can make a decision on clements after the season? Lets look at the way TD has managed teams now and in the past. I feel that by locking McGee up right now, TD is this season to judge them. If McGee excels, i wouldnt be surprised to see Clements let go, since the Bills will feel we have a #1 corner locked up longer. If McGee stumbles again, we still have a decent #2 corner, and then TD may be more inclined to re-sign clements... Maybe i am stating the obvious, but figured heres a football post to think about while we wait for camp to start 385648[/snapback] Does Mr. Wilson even have enough money to fork over a 15 million dollar (or perhaps more) signing bonus to a cb, let alone the desire? I would love for the Bills to keep NC, but would consider it a longshot. Historically, the Bills draft a lot of 1st round corners and let them walk as free agents. T. Smith, Burress and Winfield come to mind. Oh and yes, I do agree that NC is better than any of them. Btw, I for one do NOT think that MaGee, even though this is not his option year, will come cheap. He saw the big contracts that were given to corners, and his agent will point to those glorious TD punt returns while negotiating. If TD waits, or McGee refuses to renegotiate, the asking price will increase by leaps and bounds if McGee has a good year. Signing McGee before he is a free agent would be yet another coup by TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 If TD doesn't strike a deal prior to NC becoming a FA, he is outta here. If NC hits the market he'll make his best play for the biggest contract. Elsewhere, is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 i bet he would have settled for a lot less then that this time last year......after contracts for lito sheppard, sheldon brown, anthony henry, gary baxter, fred smoot, and ken lucas got handed out his price tag has gone up........ 385724[/snapback] I bet he wouldn't have signed for anything last year. I highly doubt Clements was even willing to sign an extention last year. Why would he? GM's don't have the choice to re-sign anyone they want anytime they want. There actually has to be some desire from the other side. Last year Clements was heading into his first year as a number one CB. Other than injury, there was no way he wasn't going to up his value. This goes for all the other guys on the team everyone wants to sign before their contract expires. This is not Madden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 If we lose clements we can always look for a cheaper DB via free agency. 385650[/snapback] or use our next years 1st rd pick....hopefully in the upper 20s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 O.K. You memory hounds, when was the last time the Bills signed their own CB to a long term contract after their initial 4-5 year contract? I THINK the answer is never unless you guys go back into the 80's or 70's. And even way back then the answer may still be never. I sure can't remember one. (Odomes, Burris, Thomas, and Winfield are the last four I recall as being allowed to sign with different teams) This bodes POORLY for the Bills (in terms of retaining Nate's ervices) unless you feel (like I have for quite a while) that overpaying for CB's is a mistake - they can be replaced by younger men on the cheap. Nate IS a cut above the others though I will grant you. Why? He consistently plays well defensively, seldom gets beat and has great hands near the football. So, IMO, IF the Bills do break with "tradition", then this is the guy to do it with. But c'mon folks, let's face it, Winfield's contract was RIDICULOUS. Nate's is better than Antoine. Therefore, he expects a better contract. My prediction based on Bills and league history is that he is gone after this season. SOOOOOOO, here's hoping he has a career year with 14 int's and is named to the Pro Bowl as a starter. Plus, a brand new Super Bowl ring on his finger I bet he wouldn't have signed for anything last year. I highly doubt Clements was even willing to sign an extention last year. Why would he? GM's don't have the choice to re-sign anyone they want anytime they want. There actually has to be some desire from the other side. Last year Clements was heading into his first year as a number one CB. Other than injury, there was no way he wasn't going to up his value. This goes for all the other guys on the team everyone wants to sign before their contract expires. This is not Madden. 385844[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 or use our next years 1st rd pick....hopefully in the upper 20s 385859[/snapback] I keep seeing on this board where everybody says next years draft is stocked with OL prospects and thats where our long term solution to LT will come in. Cant do that if we lose Nate and need to pick a DB in the first rd.Then again, Gandy is young and he may prove to be the answer . My take is neither TD nor Nates agent will want to proceed until the new CBA is done. McGee however may look at the security of signing bonus and agree to an extension. Hes looking at two more years before he can get the big money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I keep seeing on this board where everybody says next years draft is stocked with OL prospects and thats where our long term solution to LT will come in. Cant do that if we lose Nate and need to pick a DB in the first rd.Then again, Gandy is young and he may prove to be the answer . 385875[/snapback] Since the draft is rich in OL, it means we can get good Tackles even in the 2nd round of the draft.... I would love to have Gandy shine...because that gives us continuity on the OL...If this is going to be the last year for Teague (he is in the last year of his contract) and Preston taking over, we don't want another change to the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Does Mr. Wilson even have enough money to fork over a 15 million dollar (or perhaps more) signing bonus to a cb, let alone the desire? I would love for the Bills to keep NC, but would consider it a longshot. Historically, the Bills draft a lot of 1st round corners and let them walk as free agents. T. Smith, Burress and Winfield come to mind. Oh and yes, I do agree that NC is better than any of them. Btw, I for one do NOT think that MaGee, even though this is not his option year, will come cheap. He saw the big contracts that were given to corners, and his agent will point to those glorious TD punt returns while negotiating. If TD waits, or McGee refuses to renegotiate, the asking price will increase by leaps and bounds if McGee has a good year. Signing McGee before he is a free agent would be yet another coup by TD. 385839[/snapback] 2 things which strike me about this situation. I think that those who say TD better resign Clements or he should be gone are wrong because if I am Clements there is no way that I resign before FA unless TD offers me some psychotic deal with a huge signing bonus. If I play at the same level I played this year (and as he apparently has a sign that says "playmaker" on his locker a lack o ego and confidence does not seem to be NC's problem) he walks into FA with a very good chance to sign an extra ordinary contract even by NFL standards as the salary cap goes way up under the new TV-deals which under the CBA must rise as players are promised a % of the designated gross which includes TV money. Clements stands to make a boatload of cash which I'm not sure that RWS can even pay NC right now if he wanted to given that he is one of the less liquid of the mega-million owners and under the current cap limitations. There is no way I would resign now unless I had some injury worries, needed upfront $ right now or was not due to become a UFA until 2007. This brings us to the second issue which is McGee. This is a classic debate for him between having a bird in the hand or two in the bush. McGee should not come cheaply because having achieved the Pro Bowl in his second year and having been forced into a starting role at CB where he floundered initially like any young player but clearly improved in his play he has a temendous amount of real leverage. Hpwever, he simply will not be able to exert that leverage as he is not only under contract for chump change in 2005 already despite his 2004 Pro Bowl renown, the Bills can hold him with a larger but still chump change qualifying bid in 2006. There is signficant leverage for him to take a lesser contract now than a UFA deal because the signing bonus will set him for life and give him money up front to play with. The good news for him is that the earlier he signs a deal which sets him for life, the more likely he is to actually be able to get a second bite at the FA apple with some time left in his career IF he continues to perform (as I suspect most athletes think they will) and if he avoids serious injury (as I think most kids who know they are immortal think they will also). I think there are all sorts of reasons why McGee might take the biggest payday he has ever seen and be set for life (with good fiscal management) but forgo the huger Ty Law-esque money UFA brings. If he extends now he likely gets a second bit at the apple before he is 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 2 things which strike me about this situation. I think that those who say TD better resign Clements or he should be gone are wrong because if I am Clements there is no way that I resign before FA unless TD offers me some psychotic deal with a huge signing bonus. If I play at the same level I played this year (and as he apparently has a sign that says "playmaker" on his locker a lack o ego and confidence does not seem to be NC's problem) he walks into FA with a very good chance to sign an extra ordinary contract even by NFL standards as the salary cap goes way up under the new TV-deals which under the CBA must rise as players are promised a % of the designated gross which includes TV money. Clements stands to make a boatload of cash which I'm not sure that RWS can even pay NC right now if he wanted to given that he is one of the less liquid of the mega-million owners and under the current cap limitations. There is no way I would resign now unless I had some injury worries, needed upfront $ right now or was not due to become a UFA until 2007. This brings us to the second issue which is McGee. This is a classic debate for him between having a bird in the hand or two in the bush. McGee should not come cheaply because having achieved the Pro Bowl in his second year and having been forced into a starting role at CB where he floundered initially like any young player but clearly improved in his play he has a temendous amount of real leverage. Hpwever, he simply will not be able to exert that leverage as he is not only under contract for chump change in 2005 already despite his 2004 Pro Bowl renown, the Bills can hold him with a larger but still chump change qualifying bid in 2006. There is signficant leverage for him to take a lesser contract now than a UFA deal because the signing bonus will set him for life and give him money up front to play with. The good news for him is that the earlier he signs a deal which sets him for life, the more likely he is to actually be able to get a second bite at the FA apple with some time left in his career IF he continues to perform (as I suspect most athletes think they will) and if he avoids serious injury (as I think most kids who know they are immortal think they will also). I think there are all sorts of reasons why McGee might take the biggest payday he has ever seen and be set for life (with good fiscal management) but forgo the huger Ty Law-esque money UFA brings. If he extends now he likely gets a second bit at the apple before he is 30. 386042[/snapback] Great point and i was thinking the same thing. McGee would be wise to extend, because hes essentially got 2 years left on his rookie contract. And as you stated since he was a (3rd or 4th) round draft pick, he wont be making much over the next 2 years. even with the top RFA tender, which i think is about 1.5-2 mil, theres no way hes gonna be making over 2.5 mil or so over the next 2 years. It would be take that and hope to not get hurt and perform well, or take a possible 5-6 mil bonus (i'm estimating what hed get) and be set for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 i bet he would have settled for a lot less then that this time last year......after contracts for lito sheppard, sheldon brown, anthony henry, gary baxter, fred smoot, and ken lucas got handed out his price tag has gone up........ 385724[/snapback] Clements, a pro-bowl CB, is going to be an UFA the first year of the new television deal. Why the hell would he have agreed to anything before 2006? Donahoe would love to tie him up at pre-2006 rates, before the salary cap jumps, but Clements, most likely, isn't stupid enough to do that. Like the Henry trade, Clements resigning is going to all be about the market. Right now, it's unclear what that market for an elite CB will be, so both sides are in wait-and-see mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Clements, a pro-bowl CB, is going to be an UFA the first year of the new television deal. Why the hell would he have agreed to anything before 2006? Donahoe would love to tie him up at pre-2006 rates, before the salary cap jumps, but Clements, most likely, isn't stupid enough to do that. Like the Henry trade, Clements resigning is going to all be about the market. Right now, it's unclear what that market for an elite CB will be, so both sides are in wait-and-see mode. 386066[/snapback] why did todd heap, santana moss, marcus stroud, jamal williams, mike minter, and joe horn resign before the expiration of their contracts??? because their team showed them a fair contract and they jumped on it!!! funny how our guys always seem to be the greedy ones who want all the cash whereas other teams lock up their best young talent before they hit free agency.......screw the CBA garbage, just another excuse why we can't lock up young talent -- treat the player fairly and they will resign, just like the guys above did....... there is no reason clements shouldn't have had a fat offer with a 12M bonus LAST YEAR.......does anyone think he was offered that? not a chance.......now it would take at least 15M.......GM needs to show foresight, not be reactionary........you wait on a player and he will walk, plain and simple........ and by the way, the market for clements is sky high because NO OTHER big name CB's are scheduled for free agency.......other GM's seem to have got the job done and locked up their young talent before they get close to their free agency year........too bad clements is so "greedy" and won't do the same!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 However Nate Clements is one if not the best cb in the league. I'm not gonna debate this cause everyone has their opinion, but he's still one of the best at his position. The Most important player in our secondary and essential to lock up long term. 385657[/snapback] I'll agree Clements was one of the best last season, but let's see if he can do it again. The year before last Clements was toasted so often that even my wife, who only half way watches the games, was commmenting, "who is that number 22 that gets beat all the time." Clements has all the talent in the world, but he needs to put it together every week and be consistant. He was last year, let's see if he can continue with that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 why did todd heap, santana moss, marcus stroud, jamal williams, mike minter, and joe horn resign before the expiration of their contracts??? because their team showed them a fair contract and they jumped on it!!! funny how our guys always seem to be the greedy ones who want all the cash whereas other teams lock up their best young talent before they hit free agency.......screw the CBA garbage, just another excuse why we can't lock up young talent -- treat the player fairly and they will resign, just like the guys above did....... there is no reason clements shouldn't have had a fat offer with a 12M bonus LAST YEAR.......does anyone think he was offered that? not a chance.......now it would take at least 15M.......GM needs to show foresight, not be reactionary........you wait on a player and he will walk, plain and simple........ 386133[/snapback] Let's see, of the guys you mention, only Heap is considered top 5 at his position, and that's at TE, which is near the bottom of the position salary scale. Clements has a chance, with a strong season, to be the highest paid CB EVER. There's no way that Moss, Minter, Horn or Stroud will ever be the highest paid at their position. There's no way a TE will be paid as much as a top-level CB. Your belief in this "so-called" fairness is naive, to say the least. You should have learned from the Henry situation the importance of market value. Market value trumps "fairness" in all cases of player moves. Clements market value, in the new TV contract era, is going to be huge. And not knowing what the market for CBs will be in 2006, TD would be foolish to make a move today. Most likely, Clements will be franchised. TD will be smart to pay him the average of the top 5 CBs with current contracts under the new cap. This will make Clements a bargain in 2006. It will also give both Clements and the Bills time to figure out the new market value, which will put both on better footing to negotiate a long term deal. The amount of money Clements will command on the open market and the new salary cap will make this an ugly negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 why did todd heap, santana moss, marcus stroud, jamal williams, mike minter, and joe horn resign before the expiration of their contracts??? because their team showed them a fair contract and they jumped on it!!! 386133[/snapback] Did you notice none of the players you mentioned are CBs? Minter, Horn are past 30 and Williams turns 30 next year. They took long term deals now because after the age of 30 big money is hard to find. Heap signed the extension because if he gets hurt again this year, no GM will give him guaranteed money. Moss signed because nobody hands out guaranteed money like Snyder. You are right about Stroud though.. The jags offered to make him the 2nd highest paid DT in the NFL and Stroud jumped on it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Did you notice none of the players you mentioned are CBs? Minter, Horn are past 30 and Williams turns 30 next year. They took long term deals now because after the age of 30 big money is hard to find. Heap signed the extension because if he gets hurt again this year, no GM will give him guaranteed money. Moss signed because nobody hands out guaranteed money like Snyder. You are right about Stroud though.. The jags offered to make him the 2nd highest paid DT in the NFL and Stroud jumped on it.. 386179[/snapback] care to comment on why lito sheppard and sheldon brown (two CB's) signed extensions before the expiration of their deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 care to comment on why lito sheppard and sheldon brown (two CB's) signed extensions before the expiration of their deals? 386245[/snapback] for the same reason McGee will sign an extension this year.. They are not looking for top 5 money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 for the same reason McGee will sign an extension this year.. They are not looking for top 5 money. 386250[/snapback] but they may have been if they waited until the expiration of their deal........need i remind you that lito made the pro bowl this past season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 but they may have been if they waited until the expiration of their deal........need i remind you that lito made the pro bowl this past season? 386265[/snapback] Maybe Lito decided that as an undersized CB with 6 career interceptions, he wasn't quite ready to break the bank yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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