Why is everyone so happy about the trade?

[stevestojan]

We now have THREE threads thanking TD for this trade.

 

Now, let me start by saying I don't think there was anything we could have done, so I'm not pissed about it. But, I'm not gonna start a thread thanking TD for this.

 

Think about it. TH ran for back-to-back 1300+ seasons and was on pace for a third till he got benched. I was never personally the biggest TH fan, but those stats and the guy is only worth a 3 rounder?

 

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

[MarkyMannn]

If Willis goes down, the same people will be saying "we should have kept Henry". You're right, few 3rd rounders develop into anything.

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Please. I agree that we need to upgrade our backup RB spot now that we have some extra cash, but NO ONE should be saying we should have kept Henry because Henry wasnt going to play here even if we didnt trade him.

 

Travis pouted and complained his way right out of Buffalo...he could have easily stuck around for one more year, pulled back up duty and then picked his new team with ease. However, he made it clear he was not going to play for us in 2005, so he was basically useless to us in terms of playing performance.

 

We got a 3rd round pick out of a guy who some were calling to be cut. Thats pretty damn good.

 

As much as I'd love to find fault in everything the Bills do, this was a very solid move by the front office.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

If Willis goes down, the same people will be saying "we should have kept Henry".  You're right, few 3rd rounders develop into anything.

383314[/snapback]

 

Most teams if their starter goes down are fuged anyway. A 3rd rounder might not seem like alot but it should be good enough to package into a 2nd during the draft. Or we simply get 2 3rd rounds who either develop into starters or depth. Could we have gotten more for travis? It's debatable, but we got something which is better than what a lot of people were predicting that we would receive nothing in return.

[stevestojan]

Please.  I agree that we need to upgrade our backup RB spot now that we have some extra cash, but NO ONE should be saying we should have kept Henry because Henry wasnt going to play here even if we didnt trade him. 

 

Travis pouted and complained his way right out of Buffalo...he could have easily stuck around for one more year, pulled back up duty and then picked his new team with ease.  However, he made it clear he was not going to play for us in 2005, so he was basically useless to us in terms of playing performance.

 

We got a 3rd round pick out of a guy who some were calling to be cut.  Thats pretty damn good.

 

As much as I'd love to find fault in everything the Bills do, this was a very solid move by the front office.

383315[/snapback]

 

My whole point was that I'm not pissed about it, but I'm just surprised at how many people are excited that we got a THIRD round pick for a 1400+ yard running back....

[MarkyMannn]

Henry HAD to produce this year if he wanted the big paycheck next year. He couldn't afford to be a quitter. And so he was unhappy.............lots of people are unhappy at their job. So what? They still have to do their work

[PromoTheRobot]

We now have THREE threads thanking TD for this trade.

 

Now, let me start by saying I don't think there was anything we could have done, so I'm not pissed about it. But, I'm not gonna start a thread thanking TD for this.

 

Think about it. TH ran for back-to-back 1300+ seasons and was on pace for a third till he got benched. I was never personally the biggest TH fan, but those stats and the guy is only worth a 3 rounder?

 

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

383312[/snapback]

Like I said in an earlier post, some people are never happy with anything. If TD got a 2, you'd want a #1.

 

We are happy becuase a potential problem for the 2005 season is solved. We are happy because we got a #3 when most pundits felt TH had little or no trade value. We are happy because TD is sending TH to a non-playoff team, rather than helping a contender.

 

And as far as 3rd rounders go, about the same percentage become starters as 1st and 2nd rounders do. If you think a pick early in round 3 is worthless, then there's no point in arguing with you because you don't have a handle on the NFL anyway.

 

PTR

[Bear]

If Willis goes down, the same people will be saying "we should have kept Henry".  You're right, few 3rd rounders develop into anything.

383314[/snapback]

 

Once again, even if Willis went down Henry would not be a factor. He didn't want to play in Buffalo. He may have gone on the field, but he would have had no will to play.

 

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

 

You're right, but it isn't any other year. It's a year where there was very little interest in Henry. A year where there was no outside interest in RB's like James and Alexander. A year where people were saying we should:

 

Trade TH plus picks for Shelton...A guy who was overated by everyone

Trade straight up for Shelton

Trade for a 5th rounder

Trade for ANY pick

Cut him straight up since we won't get anything for him

 

 

After the draft many were saying that was it. Henry would either be cut or sit the bench and B word all year. People from the paid "experts" to people on this board were screaming to take ANY offer.

 

TD held his ground and got a 3rd for Henry. He didn't throw in the towel and take a tackle that the coaches didn't want. He didn't take a low ball trade offer. He stuck it out and got what he wanted and what was best for this team.

 

For that yes, I say good damn job.

[BillsFaninNC]

My whole point was that I'm not pissed about it, but I'm just surprised at how many people are excited that we got a THIRD round pick for a 1400+ yard running back....

383320[/snapback]

 

Steve,

 

Do you think Shawn Alexander and Edgrin James are better running backs? I do. And guess what, they are not getting better offers to play elsewhere.

 

Something for nothing is good. I applaud TD for sticking to his guns.

[Bear]

Henry HAD to produce this year if he wanted the big paycheck next year.  He couldn't afford to be a quitter.  And so he was unhappy.............lots of people are unhappy at their job.  So what?  They still have to do their work

383321[/snapback]

 

That's what I thought about last year, but for the first few games Henry looked worse than at any other time in his career.

[San-O]

We now have THREE threads thanking TD for this trade.

 

Now, let me start by saying I don't think there was anything we could have done, so I'm not pissed about it. But, I'm not gonna start a thread thanking TD for this.

 

Think about it. TH ran for back-to-back 1300+ seasons and was on pace for a third till he got benched. I was never personally the biggest TH fan, but those stats and the guy is only worth a 3 rounder?

 

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

383312[/snapback]

 

 

I think this is the "Feel Good Hit" of the summer!

 

People can "feel good" because:

 

1. The Bills did something, even if only to get rid of Henry.

 

2. We won't really know what this means until the pick is used, so we

can speculate for another 18 months.

 

3. This gives certain people (FFS) another opportunity to climax all over

themselves regarding TD.

 

 

P.S. Didn't really cost us anything!

[BillsFaninNC]

I swear I posted before BEAR...

[JAMIEBUF12]

i am happy!

[ExWNYer]

We now have THREE threads thanking TD for this trade.

 

Now, let me start by saying I don't think there was anything we could have done, so I'm not pissed about it. But, I'm not gonna start a thread thanking TD for this.

 

Think about it. TH ran for back-to-back 1300+ seasons and was on pace for a third till he got benched. I was never personally the biggest TH fan, but those stats and the guy is only worth a 3 rounder?

 

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

383312[/snapback]

 

Come on, Steve...you can't be serious. TH was a potential locker room cancer who could have caused division among the ranks. Be thankful he's gone...JP doesn't need any more distractions; he's already got enough to contend with this season.

 

Joe Montana, Joe Ferguson, and Jonas Jennings are three 3rd Rounders who quickly come to mind without even trying or researching. Stop the BS about "only" a Third Rounder. It's a first day draft pick and they're all valuable. It's also great ammunition if you wish to trade up or acquire more picks by trading down.

 

Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander are ten times the player that TH will ever be and their respective teams can't get their asking price...a 3rd Rounder. Hmmmm.

 

Lighten up and enjoy, Francis.

[The_Real]

We now have THREE threads thanking TD for this trade.

 

Now, let me start by saying I don't think there was anything we could have done, so I'm not pissed about it. But, I'm not gonna start a thread thanking TD for this.

 

Think about it. TH ran for back-to-back 1300+ seasons and was on pace for a third till he got benched. I was never personally the biggest TH fan, but those stats and the guy is only worth a 3 rounder?

 

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

If this had been any other year (meaning the market for RBs was better) TH is worth a high second rounder.. easily.

383312[/snapback]

 

 

In a market that Shaun Alexander can't get you a 2nd, I'm pretty happy about the pick. Henry is a good back and he may have a productive career elsewhere, but the Bills have a stud at rb.

 

The percentage of 3rd rounders that become starters is a good question. However, I know we had solid contributors that were udfa so what's to say a third rounder won't start?

 

Granted in a weak rb market he may have gotten more return, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Let's just move forward.

[WillisMcThrillis]

Out of curiousity, what would you have wanted for travis, steve?

[Justice]

I would rather see Henry as a (Happy)Buffalo Bill, but since he didn't want to be in Buffalo any longer he can kiss my you know what.

 

No, seriously. I'll miss his toughness and effort and wish him luck.

 

BTW. I'm happy it was the Titans that landed TH and not the Jags.

[Dennis in NC]

My whole point was that I'm not pissed about it, but I'm just surprised at how many people are excited that we got a THIRD round pick for a 1400+ yard running back....

383320[/snapback]

Steve, you ignorant slut! (Sorry, just had to throw in the old SNL bit)

I am happy to see Travis go because he is a guy who could get his QB killed with his "it's not my job" style of blitz pickup.

 

I was amazed last year, when Travis came in for a few plays, how shabbily his so-called blitz pickup was performed.

 

He was a fine runner when the Bills ran that horrible Kevin Gilbride pass-happy garbage. Third and 2? You pass, of course!

 

I think a 3rd rounder (from a fairly poor, maybe rebuilding team) is just fabulous compensation for Henry.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

3.  This gives certain people (FFS) another opportunity to climax all over

    themselves regarding TD.

383329[/snapback]

 

I certainly don't need TD's efforts to climax all over myself since I can do this wonderful thing with the help of my lovely wife or all by myself with Rosie thank you very much.

 

As far as a general assessment of TD and his work, I think I am fairly realistic about it in that I view his work in his 4+ years here as a mixed bag. On the negative side it all comes down to his losing record over this time and his failure to see a Bills team under his guidance make the playoffs.

 

This is a real indictment of the product of his work here and is flat out a record of bottomline failure for us fans and any honest assessment of his work needs to come to that conclusion.

 

However, this is a very different question from whether a fan should feel good about our prospects of the future (like it or not the past sirngly influences but does not determine or set in stone the future) or advocate on forums such as TSW firing TD or keeping him around.

 

While it is a good definition of insanity to keep repeating past mistakes over and over again, it also borders on insanity to totally ignore reality and not realize that the reasons one feels are behind TD's past failures are different now and to throw away future prospects and go back to rebuilding with a new GM regime when I think a rational look at why TD failed badly in his first 3 years have been changed and actually along with the clusterfxs he has done there also is some very good work and accomplishments which he deserves credit for along with deserving blame for his real mistakes.

 

Since you seem to approach this from the pessimistic side let's start with the TD mistakes.

 

The big one to me is that he completely bollixed his first choice for HC. GW appears to be a nice guy and it seemed like a good choice because he had a record of accomplishment as a DC with TN and he had so many lists and contacts that he blew TD away. However, i think he revealed that as a rookie HC he really only has half a game or worse as he was pretty clueless in managing game situations. Worse, I think he knew his failings and was not strong enough to hire people who knew what they were doing or were older and experience than him (perhaps he feared the threat, i do not know). At any rate his first OC heppard deseerved to be canned and his second OC Kevin Killdrive probably offered the benefit to GW that he was understood offenses but was a wounded figure after he failed as an HC and Buddy Ryan kicked his butt. However, they joined some bad hires like the not-ready-for-OL but a good buddy Vinky and Vinky's not ready for primetime replacement Ruel and thank gosh GW was not renewed.

 

As far as TG goes, he appears to me to have been bruised by getting canned and run out of town in Pitts by a guy he hured in Cowher. It is not surprising that his next HC hire was of a guy he could beat if push came to shove. However, as a Bills fan though his actions were understandable (like knowing that all parents no matter how much they love their kid have moments where they could throw the lil hellspawn out of a window) his actions like those of a parent who abuses their child cannot be condoned at all.

 

However, child abuse is serious and must be dealt with using a heavy hand by society. Pro footall is just a game and for me as long as a GM shows other positives to their game and tangible steps to rectify their past errors I am happy to give them another bite at the apple.

 

For me, this is where the Bills are. I will not go into excruciating detail about the positive acts TD has done. Leave it at now putting together a great team from Modrak to MM to Gray (its great he was able to save one of the good things from the GW era) to Clements (who ironically was his replacement OC candidate post Sheppard but he caved to the choice of GW to take the wounded Killdrive) and the other coaches. to doing a great job acquiring players where a lot of the work was clearly his or his call (WM, Adams, the Price trade and now the Henry trade) and I think easily producingthe 50/50 winners vs, losers that is there output across the NFL of good draft work by teams, and add to this doing quite well on the business side which makes little differenc for us fans but is a big part of the bottomline for Ralph who makes the ultimate decisions. I think it is flat out dumb to not acknowledge that at worst TD is a mixed bag of good and bad.

 

It would be insane to claim he is all good and everything is fine, but it is equally insane to claim it is all bad.

 

This comes back to the ultimate question in this thread as to why is everyone so happy regarding this trade.

 

THE ANSWER: REALITY.

 

People are psyched because again like it or not the Bills were only gonna get productivity out of TH this year with a lot of work that forced and allowed him to recognize that if he stayed he had no choice if he wanted a big future contract but to soldier on as best he could as a back-up to WM.

 

I think he would have done this, but it would have taken some effort and work by the coaches and I am pleased that they instead will devote this time to beating the enemy that week.

 

I think folks are also pleased because they got some future value in the form of a 1st day pick for TH when their were real possibilities that we would get nothing (the likely one was if he #2'ed this year and left as an FA this year or in the unlikely possibility that TD followed the advice of some TSW posters, PFW or John Clayton and cut him or traded him for a late second day pick.

 

I think people are psyched because we got some resources for a player who if everything worked out well for us (WM stas healthy) would give no benefit to the team. Though this trade does nothing for us if WM gets hurt, if we have traded him for the LT we need (it now appears Shelton was not the LT we need and we could have got him for Henry and actually could have got him for a contract) this trade would also not have helped us at RB.

 

Reality is that the only alternative that helped us as RB this year would be to hang onto to TH and force/allow him to step in for us if we needed him. I think we could have made this happen but was not looking forward to this if it did happen.

 

Instead, in the short-term we now have $1.25 million in cap room that perhaps we can apply to Verba if we want to do some OL shopping and we remain committed to Rashard Lee.Shaud Williams as our plan B if WM goes down. Even better for us stovepipers we nw get to play with a new first day draft pick resource.

 

I think the answer is don't worry, be happy and cream all over yourself.

[Buffalo Wing]

What percetage of 3 rounders ever become starters? We will end up getting a backup lineman or backup tight end next year, and like it or not, we traded a 2nd tier NFL RB for that.

 

383312[/snapback]

 

Ok, let me disagree on this...let's look at TD's success in the 3rd round since arriving in Buffalo:

 

2001 Draft --> Jonas Jennings and Ron Edwards are selected. Jennings goes on to become our starting left tackle before inking with the 49'ers. Edwards is set to become a starter at defensive tackle this year. Advantage: Donahoe.

 

2002 Draft --> Coy Wire is selected. Wire starts some games before Lawyer Milloy is picked up by TD. Wire does excel at special teams. Advantage: Donahoe.

 

2003 Draft --> Angelo Crowell is selected. Tough call since he sits behind three solid linebackers. Does have the skills to play outside or inside linebacker. Crowell does excel at special teams. Advantage: Donahoe.

 

2004 Draft --> Tim Anderson is selected. Too early to call. Should enter rotation this year. Advantage: Push.

 

2005 Draft --> Kevin Everett is selected. Too early to call. Can't wait to see this kid though when he is healed. Advantage: Push.

 

At this point, I'll take TD's track record in the 3rd round. I am confident that he'll land a solid player with the Titans pick. And, by the way, here is the Titans' schedule this year: Pittsburgh, Baltimore, St Louis, Indy, Houston, Cincy, Arizona, Oakland, Cleveland, Jax, San Francisco, Indy, Houston, Seattle, Miami, Jax. I would predict a 4-12 season for them...which would put them right near the top of the 3rd round.