Mort Says TH Deal Maybe Today

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

This is just speculation with a basis in general knowledge of the issue but without specific knowledge of this case (which is used mostly on entertainment forums like TSW, Fox News, or CNN) but it does make sense to me that the debate between the two choices (either of which, neither of which, or both ,ay not really exist) is:

 

1. Jax and TN have both offered a third for TH.

 

2. TD has countered to Jax that he can get the same pick offer from a team whose draft pick is likely to be better than Jax since Jax may make the playoff, thus if he is going to take the Jax deal they need to make it a conditional second.

[duey]

It's amazing to me that Travis would prefer the more money scenario in Jack over the clear-starter scenario in Tenn. I guess so many of these guys talk about wanting to be "the man" on a team, or wanting to have the team be "their team," but when it comes right down to it, they just want the most money possible.

 

And I agree...for the Bills, dealing him to Tenn would probably work out better come next years draft.

[Beerball]

First of all, there is no deal. If one does happen, a 4th/conditional 3rd would allow TD to save face, and would be a steal for the Bills; addition by subtraction of a dumbass, and a 4th round pick to boot.

 

As for the RJ/Flutie comparison, are you telling us that you prefer Travis to Willis? 

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Psssssst, hey Bill, bet you a pint it is at least a #3 (possibly conditional #2). TD hasn't wavered on this one, and he won't now.

[Ennjay]

This is just speculation with a basis in general knowledge of the issue but without specific knowledge of this case (which is used mostly on entertainment forums like TSW, Fox News, or CNN) . . .

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I agree about the "entertainment" types, especially if you're distinguishing Mort from the rest. He's one of the few reporters who, I think, really does his homework and doesn't speak up unless he has something to say. That doesn't mean he's always right, but he's always worth a listen. He said he spoke with TH's agent, which is more than the Buffalo News could say.

[Kelly the Dog]

It's amazing to me that Travis would prefer the more money scenario in Jack over the clear-starter scenario in Tenn.  I guess so many of these guys talk about wanting to be "the man" on a team, or wanting to have the team be "their team," but when it comes right down to it, they just want the most money possible.

 

And I agree...for the Bills, dealing him to Tenn would probably work out better come next years draft.

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It depends on what Tenn plans to do. If they want a wait and see approach, and not sign Henry to a long term deal yet, or not nearly what the Jags are offering, he would definitely want to go to the Jags. Futhermore, he wants to play. He thinks he's great. If he goes to Tenn he likely has to wait until Brown gets hurt or wears down. If he goes to the Jags he starts right away and probably thinks he's not going to give the job up (or perhaps Taylor isnt going to be back the whole season).

[nick in* england]

The glasses my friend, the rose colored glasses! 

Travis is a running back who was able to compile good yardage for 2 years, while playing poorly at every other phase of his position.

 

I predict that his career will flounder on whatever team he is traded to. Yardage notwithstanding, he is NOT a good football player.

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Not rose coloured glasses. Travis has his flaws, sure, but he can go in an be a Running Back in the NFL on most teams and have success. He proved that for 2 seasons with us - and I think he has 2 more in him.

[nick in* england]

Psssssst, hey Bill, bet you a pint it is at least a #3 (possibly conditional #2).  TD hasn't wavered on this one, and he won't now.

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And I'll buy him a pint too... Theres now way having waited this long that TD takes anything less than 3 (possibly with conditions)

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Don't believe any of this rubbish. We all know that TD was a moron in not dealing Henry for a 5th Rd pick and a bag of medical tape during the draft back in April and that we'll be stuck with Travis for the rest of his career...

[IDBillzFan]

Don't believe any of this rubbish. We all know that TD was a moron in not dealing Henry for a 5th Rd pick and a bag of medical tape during the draft back in April and that we'll be stuck with Travis for the rest of his career...

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I recall a retatta-maker or two who wanted us to cut him outright.

[nick in* england]

It's amazing to me that Travis would prefer the more money scenario in Jack over the clear-starter scenario in Tenn.  I guess so many of these guys talk about wanting to be "the man" on a team, or wanting to have the team be "their team," but when it comes right down to it, they just want the most money possible.

 

And I agree...for the Bills, dealing him to Tenn would probably work out better come next years draft.

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FWIW I don't necessarily agree that he'd be the clear starter in Tenn. Chris Brown has a shot to out play Travis in camp if he get's healthy in time. It would all depend on Tenn's running game on who get's the start - they being built for a slightly bigger back than Travis.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

I recall a retatta-maker or two who wanted us to cut him outright.

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They must have been drunk on fermented pickle juice or something...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Ahh...grasshopper you learn well. 

 

The point is that we let Flutie go (albeit via FA) to keep RJ as our starting QB.  Here we are letting TH go to keep WM.  Both RJ and WM played well when they replaced the starting player.  I am curious to see if we made the right choice.  Remeber Flutie went on to play well in SD.

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However, you do not note a significant differences between the RJ/Flutie situation and the TH/WM situation that makes these cases not comparable even though both involve keeping on player over the other.

 

In the TH/WM case, the Bills have decided to keep WM because they view WM as almost certainly being able to do the job and TH as having some trade value that even though the Bills also judge him capable of doing the job it makes more sense to move him in a trade leaving us with a starter we have confidence in and a draft pick.

 

In the RJ/Flutie case TD was simply trying to make the best of a bad situation. He suspected (and really knew) that neither RJ or Flutie could do the job needed at QB for the Bills (the job being punch the clock in the 2001 season because there was no way we were going to produce a winner or even a good record as we entered cap hell and also to potentially be a ood QB for the future as we exited cap hell).

 

TD made a judgment that Flutie was not the man for the Bills is the short-term or long-term as his personality would have chafed under the 2001 loser we were certain in cap hell to have and also due to his age, he could not be counted upon to be the QB of the future.

 

The RJ cum se/cum sa personality and need to prove himself personally regardless of the team record meant that he was a more palatable choice as the Bills simply punched the clock regarding W/L in 2001 and though he did not seem to have what it took to be our long-term choice at QB perhaps lightening would strike (or a radioactive spider would bite him or his parents would be killed in front of him and he would respond by donning a mask and playing great football) and RJ wuld work out.

 

The two cases are similar only in that the Bills will keep one and get rid of one (for cap reasons in 2001 and in exchange for a first day draft pick in 2005) and really are not comparable as the same situation.

[Buckeye Eric]

I agree about the "entertainment" types, especially if you're distinguishing Mort from the rest.  He's one of the few reporters who, I think, really does his homework and doesn't speak up unless he has something to say.  That doesn't mean he's always right, but he's always worth a listen.  He said he spoke with TH's agent, which is more than the Buffalo News could say.

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Peronally, I only trust Lions fans as the only credible source of information.

Lions Fan Thread

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

The glasses my friend, the rose colored glasses! 

Travis is a running back who was able to compile good yardage for 2 years, while playing poorly at every other phase of his position.

 

I predict that his career will flounder on whatever team he is traded to. Yardage notwithstanding, he is NOT a good football player.

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I don't think the facts support the argument that he has played poorly at every other phase of his position.

 

The context for this is an argument about what in fact are the phases of the RB position and what is the relative importance of those phases.

 

In my mind, one can probably list a bunch of phases important to the RB position and go as far as you want but as the list gets longer they diminish in importance. My incomplete list stopping at the point where the phases are of important but small import that I can do without them if the RB cannot do them are:

 

1. He is a running threat.

2. He is a receiving threat.

3. He is adequate as a blocker.

4. Other issues of import which they are great if he does them but I can live with it easily if he does not (ex: Positive ST play, On-field captain, Option passing threat, Does not fumble, Good locker room guy, Etc.)

 

Further, there are a variety of positive % of each element that can vary and a player is still a positive force overall if he has the right combination of abilities and you run the right O to make use of them. However, in a standard approach to an O I would assign the following percentages of import:

 

1. Running: 66%- The main jobby far of a running back is to run. It's great if my RB is a receiving threat like a Marshall Faulk or a Thurman Thomas but if he can run the ball this is why I have him in. Jerome Bettis is a wildly good example of an RB that exemplifies the point. He has generally caught less than 10 passes for several years running and historically gains 100 yards or less as a receiver each year, but who cares the Bus is a great RB.

 

2. Receiving 25%- Again there are some wild cases where an RB is such a good runner, i do not require him to pick up a lot of yards receiving in order to judge him good. However, for the standard NFL O and player he must show some ability to catch the ball in order to make the O work and the running game effective. Most fans might make judgments about this based on a player having a critical or few outragous drops. if it is a few this is wrong particularly if the drops are accompanied by the player having recorded a good season as a receiver.

 

I think this is the Henry story and where some obsservers are simply in error claiming he is a dysfunctional or bad receiver. Like it or not the 43 receptions he had in 2002 and was selected to the Pro Bowl as a reserve because of his running yardage and because he caught the ball is a clear indicator that he is a receiving threat. His rookie year of 2001 where he caught less than 30 but also was not the starting RB for all the season and actually had a better YPC than his very good receiving year in 2002 ae signs his best year was consistent and not a fluke. His receiving total dropped to 28 catches in 2003 even though he rushed for 1300+ yds. but our O was so ineffectual that year, Kevin Killdrive's gamecalls were so predictable and Bledsoe is not one known for his touch on short passes that his downturn is far more likely to be caused by other factors than Henry not being able to play the receving phase of the game well enough.

 

3. Blocking- 5%- Again if a player is a total stiff in various regards of the game this can be a problem, but outside of badly missing a blitz pick-up as a rookie which got even Flutie sacked, Henry has been adequate at blitz pick-up in my judgment. There is not stat which exemplifies him being good or bad at this so its tough to argue beyond folks fact-free opinions (mine and others). However, it says a lot whether this is an issue which was cited a lot in the a players career by fans and pundits in terms of assessing an assessment. The fact is that Henry was revered by many Bills fans as a roolkie with promise in 2001 and as a leading player in 2002 and 2003 and the blitz pick-up complaint about his work in this facet of the game only emeged as folks were shopping for any reason to indict him.

 

The other thing I would say generally about blocking is that though blitz pick-up is an important part of this much lesser facet of the RB game, an RB's ability to block to make the accompanying FB a threat to run can be just as important as the blitz pick-up blocking depending on the offense a team uses.

 

The other factors are important also but a I said if a player sucks at them fine as I can find another player who is bright enough to be my on field captain even if the RB is such a dimbulb he can only run and catch or he never plays ST.

 

I did mention one non-negative that it is of import that an RB have which is that he holds onto the ball. This factor needs to be noted for a player whose job it is to carry the ball a lot. However, this also is only a factor and even if a player sucks holding onto the ball it is not a disqualifier for me if he performs well in other parts of the game. For example, Henry racked up almost a fumble a game in 2002 and lost 8 of them to opponents (who returned them for long scores a couple of times though the result of an opponent score is more determined by how the funny shaped ball bounces after the RB makes the mistake of letting it go). Howerver, he earned a Pro Bowl appearance despite his horrendous funble record because fumbling is bad but is easily outweighed by being a running threat and receiving threat. If you think this was just an odd case that was solely Travis look at some of Tiki Barber's years until he like TH solved his fumbling problem,

 

the bottomline for me is that the claim that he sucks at all phases of the position except for running is simply wrong and is unsupported by the stats. Further, running and getting yards running is by far the most important part of an RBs job that 1300+ yard performances in two of his four years (the other two were a promising rookie season that was good in my judgment and a lost fouth year when he gave up on his teammates (the real reason a trade is the correct thing to do) because he perceived the team gave up on him.

 

TH is way far away from a cancer on this team because though he was clearly unhappy and not a positive in trying to reach a goal that is hard enough to reach with everyone giving 110%, he was not a cancer. I have seen cancer's and clearly during the season he was no where near being one. Even in the off-season, though TH moved his bags and said he wanted to go, this situation could be repaired if he and the Bills were forced to do that (and he would have had no real choice but to suck it up an make good if he remained a Bill and he wanted to get a big payday).

[canadian bill]

Chris Brown can't stay healthy so he has good chances to start on either team. Brown gets injured all last year and doesn't know how to play threw pain. Taking Travis for a 3rd round pick is such a steal for whatever team decides to do so. He is defiantly worth at least a second I can't believe coaches and personnel have let it get this far. What an amazing duo Mcgahee and Travis would be.

[Sound_n_Fury]

It's amazing to me that Travis would prefer the more money scenario in Jack over the clear-starter scenario in Tenn.

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I read it just the opposite. Chris Brown (when healthy) is just as good as TH. Why would Henry want to go there. In Jax he'd be the man, as Taylor's probably going to end up as a spot duty guy from here on out.

[canadian bill]

Travis is way to good of a running back to get rid of. This is a mistake.

[bobblehead]

I recall a retatta-maker or two who wanted us to cut him outright.

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I recall a couple of people thinking we should offer a Henry and a draft pick in order to get someone to take him.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I think the Jax situation is the best one by far for Travis. It's his home state, the Jags are a contender, Taylor likely won't be back soon, if ever, and they're offering him more allegedly. Tennessee would be the best for the Bills, since if it's a 3rd rounder either way, the pick would be higher, they're not a contender and thus not a threat to the Bills, and potentially Travis could help them beat the Jags. I'm just hoping it gets done either way, but I'd like it to be the Jags for Travis' sake (I don't really care if he makes them a contender since I want the Bills to do it on their own), but then the pick would have to be a conditional 2nd.

[Sound_n_Fury]

"I'm all for bringing him in, because that's just going to make us better,'' Taylor said. "But this is my team.''....

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Taylor's fooling himself if he actually thinks that. His days are numbered and everyone (probably even him) knows it.