Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Me, I'm just happy that Billy B. can't put three in the box and expect to contain our QB. JP will burn them if they try it. 381776[/snapback] EXCELLENT point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Damn, in all my excitement about this upcoming season, i almost forgot we still have lindell as our kicker...sh--!!!!!! we are sunk in close games... 381820[/snapback] Come opening day, he might not be on the roster. The other kickers in camp have to realize that they have an excellent chance to make an NFL squad this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Interesting thoughts Jokeman and my response by the numbers. 1)You say, I'll agree Jerry Gray has proven to be one of the best NFL assistants and Bobby April has a proven track record in the NFL. Yet there are still questions about Tom Clements and even our HC in Mike Mularkey. While they proved to be a good combination in Pittsburgh they have new jobs in Buffalo and have to be as good as they were last year if not better because of now having a young/inexperienced QB behind center vs a proven vet like Bledsoe last year. But. while there are questions about any NFL coach until he wins the big one a couple of times, I think that I have more doubts about April as an ST coach (I will be pleased as punch if we simply repeat the ST output of last year where a number of things went our way with returns that can easily and through no fault of anyone go in a different direction this year) and less than April but still more than about TC/MM about Gray and the D (though after two years of productive work I think Gray is the real deal and not a fluke). MM/TC have not proven themselves as Parcells/BB like worldbeaters there record shows they too are the real on O. Evidence is: A. The great improvement of our O over the 2003 model while still using Bledsoe as the QB. The overall O stats are comparable to before because of the slow start until they established the "new" Bills O and the huge ST production meant they succeeded by not having to take O risks in the seond half of the season, but cleatrly the O improved over its O TD for 2-1/2 games in the middle of 03 and there were a series of specific TC/MM decisions that wer a part of this (1. playing D players on O in the redzone which increased productivity there, 2. employing the O in away which stopped Ds from overcommitting to the blitz such as their selection and use of WM (psrticularly outside runs) and even good employnment of Bledsoe runningthe QB draw, and C. running some nice flea-flickers which used Bledsoe's ball-handling and vet talent to get production from Evans and WM. B. They not only got better production out of the Bills O but also did this for several years with different versions of the Pitts O. Once may be a fluke, twice, may be a coincidence, but three separate good performances by them is a real thing. C. The Pitts Os were different from each other in a way that is important to the Bills because they ran Os that saw revival in Kordell and then also Maddox (and to some extent Bledsoe though he was so bad in 03 that even with improvement in 04 he still deserved to be cut) and it is now been reinforced with Wyche so the prospects for JPL failing based on his skills mostly because the teaching has a record of working and being superb. My main worry with MM is that I think the best O for the Bills is not one which they have pulled off in the past of getting leadership frim a failed vet, but instead to make sure that JPL is the caretaker we need because any rookie will almost certainly fail as he must learn to eventually be a vet. We will do well not to the degree that JP becomes a new Kordell or Maddox but to the extent he becomes a Dilfer or RoboQB. 2) The 1984 Bengals (Wyche's first year as HC) were 8-8. The following year, Boomer's first year as a full time NFL starter, they finished 7-9. So there's documented proof even under the Wyche that a QB can take a team a minor step back. Yet Boomer had more expereince than JP had as Esiason played 10 games in 1984 and to me on the field experience counts far more then film work. A good point and one which should steer MM/TC/Wyche toward a goal of having JP be a good caretaker rather than run the O to depend on him being a playmaker. 3) While I don't think the loss of Pat Williams is a big one it does leave some question marks in the middle of the defense. I suspect the D might fall slightly from a top 5 to a top 10 defense this year. If this D falls from being #2 statistically to being #6 I think we will be OK. With 10 or 11 D starters back, PW actually not being relied upon at all for over 1/3 ofthe D snaps last year, and the prescence of a plan A (Edwards) and a plan B (Anderson) to replace PW, and last year's achievements actually accomplished with our starting CB (Vincent) and starting SS (Milloy) missing signifcant time it is far from certain or even likely but it is possible the D output may improve even without PW. If Edwards or Anderson steps up and this crew builds upon its second half production then look out. 4) No doubt the special team's were great last season but let's remember they tied an NFL record last year, to expect an exact duplication is asking a lot. I expect them to slip a little like the defense. I also will be pleasantly surprised if we get the same output from an ST which had a record-breaking year in the return game last year and a new flawless coverage game. it would foolish to expect a replication of this output this year (though I am a fan so foolish hope is what I do). However, the interesting thing is that our ST was judged by many as best in the NFL with a placekicking game that clearly left a lot to be desired. Lindell did a great (and I do mean GREAT) job on kickoffs last year and he did a very good job with onside kicks. However, the ST will be greatly improved with the fairly small and certainly doable improvement of Lindell becoming as reliable as he was in SEA. He will improve by simply not missing chipshot FGs and kickers are odd birds so this may not happen but it can be done. 5) The problem with comparing this team to the Ravens is the caretaker QB you mentioned was an NFL veteran (ironically enough who started his career under Wyche as well). Watching JP last year during the regular season it was obvious he struggled. I suspect more of the same this year. I think one of the best things MM did last year was to throw JP into mop-up duty against NE. Fortunately he survived physically (and when he did Bledsoewas probably done for at that point) but if anything knocked the cockiness out of him this was it. Welcome to the NFL son. Lots of players are physically gifted but the difference between the good ones ad the bad ones is that the good ones are mentally perepared. After getting his ears pinned back by an INT and fumble against Pitts and also a penalty for delay of game and having to take a TO to avoid a penalty JP would have to have the height of stupidity and cockiness to come into this season and expect he is going to be totally in control right away. Bottom Line: While I generally don't feel that a QB has to be a leader to succeed I'd say this team has a better chance making the playoffs this year with Holcomb, because he's more Dilferesque than JP is at this point. As while JP might have the better skill set etc. Holcomb has experience and shown he can play in the NFL and JP is still a question mark. While I'm not starting a Holcomb vs. Losman here, I think it's better for the Bills long term success to stick with JP even if it means being 6-10 this year. While 6-10 sounds like a larger then minor step back with the parity of the league these days we know all too well that a game can be won/lost on one single play. Realistically, I have a feeling we just won't make all the plays/more than we did last year hence a step backwards is a realistic expectation. Bottom Linme: 16-0 is what I hope for but i think this is a pipe dream but so is 6-10. Looking at the way the schedule falls out it really will depend on what happens, but I see 10-6 as a far more likely outcome than 6-10 and even 11-5 is a real possibility if the ball bounces the right way. 381633[/snapback] 1458 words. I've always enjoyed your your commentary FFS, I reallly do, but I worry that you are an android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 1458 words. I've always enjoyrd your your commentary FFS, I reallly do, but I worry that you are an android. 381833[/snapback] Or a thesaurus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 For the record, again, Losman is not a rookie. Like Brady, Culpepper, Palmer, Brees and Favre were, he is a starter in his 2nd year. Not saying he'll do as well or poorly as those guys, but his experience level is roughly the same as theirs when they were named starters. And the Bills special teams ARE that great, even with Lindell's average kicking performance. You don't have three guys return kicks during the season for TDs and another guy block a punt for a TD on a special teams unit that is 'not great.' They even have a punter who can boom an 80 yarder on one punt, and then can run or pass for a first down on the next attempt. You also have to consider that they're adding Parrish to the punt return team this year. The special teams will continue to be great again this year. 381792[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 For the record, again, Losman is not a rookie. Like Brady, Culpepper, Palmer, Brees and Favre were, he is a starter in his 2nd year. Not saying he'll do as well or poorly as those guys, but his experience level is roughly the same as theirs when they were named starters. And the Bills special teams ARE that great, even with Lindell's average kicking performance. You don't have three guys return kicks during the season for TDs and another guy block a punt for a TD on a special teams unit that is 'not great.' They even have a punter who can boom an 80 yarder on one punt, and then can run or pass for a first down on the next attempt. You also have to consider that they're adding Parrish to the punt return team this year. The special teams will continue to be great again this year. 381792[/snapback] i think jp is still a rookie he threw like 5 passes last year plus he had a busted leg to boot.yes we have good special teams ,but lindell sinks them!when you cant go for a 40 yard field goal in a close game your team is sunk!winning formuls=strong defence,great running game ,excellent punter and a field goal kicker that can win games.ryan dosnt win games for us he loses them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 i think jp is still a rookie he threw like 5 passes last year plus he had a busted leg to boot.yes we have good special teams ,but lindell sinks them!when you cant go for a 40 yard field goal in a close game your team is sunk!winning formuls=strong defence,great running game ,excellent punter and a field goal kicker that can win games.ryan dosnt win games for us he loses them. 382204[/snapback] Just because you think he is one, doesn't make him a rookie. You ignore the other QBs I mention who had relatively no experience behind them when they became starters. For example, Carson Palmer Dante Culpepper didn't throw a pass their rookie years. Tom Brady became the starter as a result of an injury, so he wasn't even able to use the offseason and preseason to prepare for his starting role. Those guys did all right. And Lindell not withstanding, the special teams won more games for the Bills last season than it lost for them. I'm not even sure Lindell will be on the roster this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Damn, in all my excitement about this upcoming season, i almost forgot we still have lindell as our kicker...sh--!!!!!! we are sunk in close games... 381820[/snapback] You had to remind me. Curses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 2) The 1984 Bengals (Wyche's first year as HC) were 8-8. The following year, Boomer's first year as a full time NFL starter, they finished 7-9. So there's documented proof even under the Wyche that a QB can take a team a minor step back. Yet Boomer had more expereince than JP had as Esiason played 10 games in 1984 and to me on the field experience counts far more then film work. 381534[/snapback] Without dissecting all of these points, I'd have to say that the time he's been able to give Losman this year vs. what he was able to give Boomer while being head coach probably is as different as night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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