I am so sick of hearing....

[canbuffan34]

All these self annointed "experts" from the various football magazines stating that we're going to end the season 4-12, 6-10! One of them even stated that the stinkin' fish would end up with a better record overall. Here's what I know for sure,

 

1) We have arguably (with the loss of NE's co-ordinators) the best coaching staff in the league. Having said that, if we here at TSW can figure out that the best way to bring along JPL slowly and build his confidence early on is by running the ball and not putting too much pressure on him, don't you think these coaches have?

 

2) Sam Wyche personally worked with Boomer and Montana! It's well documented that JPL has been working his A$$ off in camp and in the Film Room, in particular, the players like Moulds and Campbell have stated that he knows where everyone is supposed to be on every play! The only player that Bledsoe always knew the location of was Moulds!

 

3) So we lost Big Pat, big deal! Everyone else is back including Milloy and Vincent at the safety positions, anybody think that the completion to Wilford would've been made if both of these guys had of been in the EZ? The defence is potentially the best in the league this year! Period!

 

4) ST's, nuff said!

 

5) I view this year's team being a carbon copy of the Ravens squad a few years ago that won it all, a dominating defence... excellent ST's.. a punishing back.. and above all else a CARETAKER at QB! Not a playmaker. Remember Ray Lucas? Tried to be a playmaker, fell on his face. I billieve that Sam Wyche and Mike Mularkey will put this kid in the best possible situation to win, and we won't be finishing in the top 5 in the NFL for 3andouts this year, like we did last year which will allow our defence to be fresh and even more effective when they do hit the field!

 

Bottom Line- Any naysayers about JPL taking over this team and leading them to the playoffs on his shoulders are RIGHT! He can't. The thing is he doesn't have to, he's not driving this bus... he's a passenger.

[nick in* england]

You are right.

 

One caveat on JP. I'm rooting for the kid - but MANY reports from college say he tries to force plays and make things happen. IF the coaches can keep that mentality in check we'll be fine as you say.

 

The minute JP starts to show that cockiness that people accuse him of we start to look a lot more shaky.

 

That said - I share your confidence. Playoffs baby!

[canadian bill]

I don' t know if people understand what an assest Sam Wyche is not only to the QB's but the whole Buffalo Bill Organization.

[The Jokeman]

Let me address some of the points originally brought up:

 

1)I'll agree Jerry Gray has proven to be one of the best NFL assistants and Bobby April has a proven track record in the NFL. Yet there are still questions about Tom Clements and even our HC in Mike Mularkey. While they proved to be a good combination in Pittsburgh they have new jobs in Buffalo and have to be as good as they were last year if not better because of now having a young/inexperienced QB behind center vs a proven vet like Bledsoe last year.

 

2) The 1984 Bengals (Wyche's first year as HC) were 8-8. The following year, Boomer's first year as a full time NFL starter, they finished 7-9. So there's documented proof even under the Wyche that a QB can take a team a minor step back. Yet Boomer had more expereince than JP had as Esiason played 10 games in 1984 and to me on the field experience counts far more then film work.

 

3) While I don't think the loss of Pat Williams is a big one it does leave some question marks in the middle of the defense. I suspect the D might fall slightly from a top 5 to a top 10 defense this year.

 

4) No doubt the special team's were great last season but let's remember they tied an NFL record last year, to expect an exact duplication is asking a lot. I expect them to slip a little like the defense.

 

5) The problem with comparing this team to the Ravens is the caretaker QB you mentioned was an NFL veteran (ironically enough who started his career under Wyche as well). Watching JP last year during the regular season it was obvious he struggled. I suspect more of the same this year.

 

Bottom Line: While I generally don't feel that a QB has to be a leader to succeed I'd say this team has a better chance making the playoffs this year with Holcomb, because he's more Dilferesque than JP is at this point. As while JP might have the better skill set etc. Holcomb has experience and shown he can play in the NFL and JP is still a question mark. While I'm not starting a Holcomb vs. Losman here, I think it's better for the Bills long term success to stick with JP even if it means being 6-10 this year. While 6-10 sounds like a larger then minor step back with the parity of the league these days we know all too well that a game can be won/lost on one single play. Realistically, I have a feeling we just won't make all the plays/more than we did last year hence a step backwards is a realistic expectation.

[stuckincincy]

Dilferesque

381365[/snapback]

381534[/snapback]

 

 

That has a nice ring to it.

[AJ1]

Bottom line: even if the Bills do finish as badly as the nay-sayers predict, the Bills will be better off than with another 9 - 7 with a used-up warhorse at QB. I'm prepared to accept what we get with the new guy. Anything beyond 7 - 9 THIS season I will consider gravy.

[krazykat]

All these self annointed "experts" from the various football magazines stating that we're going to end the season 4-12, 6-10! One of them even stated that the stinkin' fish would end up with a better record overall. Here's what I know for sure,

 

1) We have arguably (with the loss of NE's co-ordinators) the best coaching staff in the league. Having said that, if we here at TSW can figure out that the best way to bring along JPL slowly and build his confidence early on is by running the ball and not putting too much pressure on him, don't you think these coaches have?

 

2) Sam Wyche personally worked with Boomer and Montana! It's well documented that JPL has been working his A$$ off in camp and in the Film Room, in particular, the players like Moulds and Campbell have stated that he knows where everyone is supposed to be on every play! The only player that Bledsoe always knew the location of was Moulds!

 

3) So we lost Big Pat, big deal! Everyone else is back including Milloy and Vincent at the safety positions, anybody think that the completion to Wilford would've been made if both of these guys had of been in the EZ? The defence is potentially the best in the league this year! Period!

 

4) ST's, nuff said!

 

5) I view this year's team being a carbon copy of the Ravens squad a few years ago that won it all, a dominating defence... excellent ST's.. a punishing back.. and above all else a CARETAKER at QB! Not a playmaker. Remember Ray Lucas? Tried to be a playmaker, fell on his face. I billieve that Sam Wyche and Mike Mularkey will put this kid in the best possible situation to win, and we won't be finishing in the top 5 in the NFL for 3andouts this year, like we did last year which will allow our defence to be fresh and even more effective when they do hit the field!

 

Bottom Line- Any naysayers about JPL taking over this team and leading them to the playoffs on his shoulders are RIGHT! He can't. The thing is he doesn't have to, he's not driving this bus... he's a passenger.

381365[/snapback]

On Jokeman's lead:

 

1. Those same coaches relied on Bledsoe far too much last year and didn't even run the ball with him at QB. How much do you think we'll run early on? I don't know, just asking considering that last season was supposed to be a smashmouthed rushing attack and wasn't.

 

2. A lot of players "work their A$$ off" but aren't any good. Besides, it's not the passing game that will make us good, just as with all top teams, D and rushing will be the keys. Our line may prohibit us from having a rushing game good enough. Willis still needs holes.

 

3. Milloy and Vincent are also not a year older at 32 and 34 with Vincent coming off a season with an injury. Neither player is getting better and we are still short a decent CB.

 

4. STs should be tight again, but we beat a lot of questionable teams last season primarily due to outstanding STs play. Our schedule doesn't have too many questionable teams this season. We also don't want to have to rely on STs to win games for us like they did last season.

 

5. It will be very interesting to see how MM and TC coach this year. Are they gonna run Willis more? If they do, can our line open holes for him? They weren't great last year. As good as JPL may be, he'll need some time to get ready. You're not going to see essentially a rookie QB come in and light up the best defenses in the league to pull all kinds of games out of our butt. I'll be happy if he can win two or three and just not skid the sheets for a good chunk of the season. ALL QBs take time to learn the game.

 

Roeth was good last year, but everyone talks about him as if he had 30 TDs when he only had 17. As mobile as he was, he was sacked 30 times in 13 starts behind a much better line than we have. That kind of play isn't going to push us to 12 wins. Pittsburgh had a much better rushing game than we did last year and somewhat of a better D.

 

Bottom line: If the line doesn't block any better than last season then JPL's gonna have to do a lot more than he should have to this year if we expect to have a winning season. He also has to prove that he's not injury prone when full contact on the field in games starts.

[krazykat]

Bottom line: even if the Bills do finish as badly as the nay-sayers predict, the Bills will be better off than with another 9 - 7 with a used-up warhorse at QB.  I'm prepared to accept what we get with the new guy.  Anything beyond 7 - 9 THIS season I will consider gravy.

381553[/snapback]

Exactly. It's not fair to Losman to put the entire burden on his shoulders from the get go. McGahee's gonna have to carry this offense and I'm not sure we have the line to do it.

[Mickey]

All these self annointed "experts" from the various football magazines stating that we're going to end the season 4-12, 6-10! One of them even stated that the stinkin' fish would end up with a better record overall. Here's what I know for sure,

 

1) We have arguably (with the loss of NE's co-ordinators) the best coaching staff in the league. Having said that, if we here at TSW can figure out that the best way to bring along JPL slowly and build his confidence early on is by running the ball and not putting too much pressure on him, don't you think these coaches have?

 

2) Sam Wyche personally worked with Boomer and Montana! It's well documented that JPL has been working his A$$ off in camp and in the Film Room, in particular, the players like Moulds and Campbell have stated that he knows where everyone is supposed to be on every play! The only player that Bledsoe always knew the location of was Moulds!

 

3) So we lost Big Pat, big deal! Everyone else is back including Milloy and Vincent at the safety positions, anybody think that the completion to Wilford would've been made if both of these guys had of been in the EZ? The defence is potentially the best in the league this year! Period!

 

4) ST's, nuff said!

 

5) I view this year's team being a carbon copy of the Ravens squad a few years ago that won it all, a dominating defence... excellent ST's.. a punishing back.. and above all else a CARETAKER at QB! Not a playmaker. Remember Ray Lucas? Tried to be a playmaker, fell on his face. I billieve that Sam Wyche and Mike Mularkey will put this kid in the best possible situation to win, and we won't be finishing in the top 5 in the NFL for 3andouts this year, like we did last year which will allow our defence to be fresh and even more effective when they do hit the field!

 

Bottom Line- Any naysayers about JPL taking over this team and leading them to the playoffs on his shoulders are RIGHT! He can't. The thing is he doesn't have to, he's not driving this bus... he's a passenger.

381365[/snapback]

Though I am optimistic about the season, some these claims of yours are at least a little bit iffy. I hope you are right in all that you say but I have doubts.

 

Best coaching staff in the league? What is that based on? Mularkey has been a head coach for one year. I like our coaching staff fine but given the results on the field and the shortness of their careers at this point, I don't think such an over the top statement is based on much more besides homerism. Philadelphia and San Diego are doing quite well with the staff they have just to name a few.

 

Knowing where everyone is supposed to be on a given play is nice but unless your expectations for a quarterback are about as low as they can get, this is not much of an achievment. Studying hard with Sam is the minimum I would expect. Neither of these facts translate directly to wins. If that were all there is to being a winning QB, the league would be chock full of them.

 

We lost Pat and Jonas Jennings. Everyone seems to agree that we have had a solid defense the past few years. Pat was on those defenses. Did those defenses achieve what they did despite Pat Williams or in part, because of him? Losing Pat Williams could be a very big deal in the short term even if it was the right move in the long run. As for Jennings, losing arguably the best offensive lineman you have from a line that was suspect to begin with is at least worthy of concern. Fans here have expressed often enough their concerns regarding the line so it is no surprise that sports writers are also concerned.

 

I don't agree necessarily with the pessimism coming out of the footbal rags but clearly, there are legit reasons to be concerned whether this team will play as well as it did last year. What concerns me most is that last year were probably not as good as our record given what turned out to be a wussy filled schedule. I think we likely have to improve just to finish as well as we did last year and even that won't get us into the playoffs.

 

Nobody knows. JP is a big fat question mark. I wouldn't be shocked if he tore it up from the git-go and became the talk of the league by week three. I also wouldn't be shocked if Holcomb replaced him as the starter in week three either. I am cautiously optimistic.

[Alaska Darin]

1. The team didn't rely on Bledsoe too much. We were a victim of defenses not respecting him. That means they put AT LEAST eight men in the box and dared Drew to look away from Moulds. He couldn't do it. That alone is the largest reason there weren't alot of big holes for Willis.

 

2. I'm VERY concerned about the tight end position. It could be the key to our offensive success - even more than our rookie QB.

 

3. The loss of Pat Williams could be catastrophic or it may not register on the radar. It's obviously the defenses biggest personnel question mark. Until this defense changes a game against a quality opponent, I'd hesitate greatly to compare it to the Super Bowl Ravens. It's not even CLOSE to that level.

 

4. Special teams really shouldn't drop that much. They may not hit as many home runs but I expect them to be more consistant.

 

5. Losman's film room time is HIGHLY overrated. I'm glad he's doing it and it'll certainly have some benefit but in the grand scheme of things it's simply a miniscule part of his development.

 

For the record, most of the time Roethlisburger was pretty damn average but Cower's commitment to running the ball and BR's penchant for not turning over the rock made him look alot more successful than he was.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Interesting thoughts Jokeman and my response by the numbers.

 

1)You say, I'll agree Jerry Gray has proven to be one of the best NFL assistants and Bobby April has a proven track record in the NFL. Yet there are still questions about Tom Clements and even our HC in Mike Mularkey. While they proved to be a good combination in Pittsburgh they have new jobs in Buffalo and have to be as good as they were last year if not better because of now having a young/inexperienced QB behind center vs a proven vet like Bledsoe last year.

 

But. while there are questions about any NFL coach until he wins the big one a couple of times, I think that I have more doubts about April as an ST coach (I will be pleased as punch if we simply repeat the ST output of last year where a number of things went our way with returns that can easily and through no fault of anyone go in a different direction this year) and less than April but still more than about TC/MM about Gray and the D (though after two years of productive work I think Gray is the real deal and not a fluke). MM/TC have not proven themselves as Parcells/BB like worldbeaters there record shows they too are the real on O.

 

Evidence is:

 

A. The great improvement of our O over the 2003 model while still using Bledsoe as the QB. The overall O stats are comparable to before because of the slow start until they established the "new" Bills O and the huge ST production meant they succeeded by not having to take O risks in the seond half of the season, but cleatrly the O improved over its O TD for 2-1/2 games in the middle of 03 and there were a series of specific TC/MM decisions that wer a part of this (1. playing D players on O in the redzone which increased productivity there, 2. employing the O in away which stopped Ds from overcommitting to the blitz such as their selection and use of WM (psrticularly outside runs) and even good employnment of Bledsoe runningthe QB draw, and C. running some nice flea-flickers which used Bledsoe's ball-handling and vet talent to get production from Evans and WM.

 

B. They not only got better production out of the Bills O but also did this for several years with different versions of the Pitts O. Once may be a fluke, twice, may be a coincidence, but three separate good performances by them is a real thing.

 

C. The Pitts Os were different from each other in a way that is important to the Bills because they ran Os that saw revival in Kordell and then also Maddox (and to some extent Bledsoe though he was so bad in 03 that even with improvement in 04 he still deserved to be cut) and it is now been reinforced with Wyche so the prospects for JPL failing based on his skills mostly because the teaching has a record of working and being superb.

 

My main worry with MM is that I think the best O for the Bills is not one which they have pulled off in the past of getting leadership frim a failed vet, but instead to make sure that JPL is the caretaker we need because any rookie will almost certainly fail as he must learn to eventually be a vet. We will do well not to the degree that JP becomes a new Kordell or Maddox but to the extent he becomes a Dilfer or RoboQB.

 

2) The 1984 Bengals (Wyche's first year as HC) were 8-8. The following year, Boomer's first year as a full time NFL starter, they finished 7-9. So there's documented proof even under the Wyche that a QB can take a team a minor step back. Yet Boomer had more expereince than JP had as Esiason played 10 games in 1984 and to me on the field experience counts far more then film work.

 

A good point and one which should steer MM/TC/Wyche toward a goal of having JP be a good caretaker rather than run the O to depend on him being a playmaker.

 

3) While I don't think the loss of Pat Williams is a big one it does leave some question marks in the middle of the defense. I suspect the D might fall slightly from a top 5 to a top 10 defense this year.

 

If this D falls from being #2 statistically to being #6 I think we will be OK. With 10 or 11 D starters back, PW actually not being relied upon at all for over 1/3 ofthe D snaps last year, and the prescence of a plan A (Edwards) and a plan B (Anderson) to replace PW, and last year's achievements actually accomplished with our starting CB (Vincent) and starting SS (Milloy) missing signifcant time it is far from certain or even likely but it is possible the D output may improve even without PW. If Edwards or Anderson steps up and this crew builds upon its second half production then look out.

 

4) No doubt the special team's were great last season but let's remember they tied an NFL record last year, to expect an exact duplication is asking a lot. I expect them to slip a little like the defense.

 

I also will be pleasantly surprised if we get the same output from an ST which had a record-breaking year in the return game last year and a new flawless coverage game. it would foolish to expect a replication of this output this year (though I am a fan so foolish hope is what I do). However, the interesting thing is that our ST was judged by many as best in the NFL with a placekicking game that clearly left a lot to be desired. Lindell did a great (and I do mean GREAT) job on kickoffs last year and he did a very good job with onside kicks. However, the ST will be greatly improved with the fairly small and certainly doable improvement of Lindell becoming as reliable as he was in SEA. He will improve by simply not missing chipshot FGs and kickers are odd birds so this may not happen but it can be done.

 

5) The problem with comparing this team to the Ravens is the caretaker QB you mentioned was an NFL veteran (ironically enough who started his career under Wyche as well). Watching JP last year during the regular season it was obvious he struggled. I suspect more of the same this year.

 

I think one of the best things MM did last year was to throw JP into mop-up duty against NE. Fortunately he survived physically (and when he did Bledsoewas probably done for at that point) but if anything knocked the cockiness out of him this was it. Welcome to the NFL son. Lots of players are physically gifted but the difference between the good ones ad the bad ones is that the good ones are mentally perepared.

 

After getting his ears pinned back by an INT and fumble against Pitts and also a penalty for delay of game and having to take a TO to avoid a penalty JP would have to have the height of stupidity and cockiness to come into this season and expect he is going to be totally in control right away.

 

Bottom Line: While I generally don't feel that a QB has to be a leader to succeed I'd say this team has a better chance making the playoffs this year with Holcomb, because he's more Dilferesque than JP is at this point. As while JP might have the better skill set etc. Holcomb has experience and shown he can play in the NFL and JP is still a question mark. While I'm not starting a Holcomb vs. Losman here, I think it's better for the Bills long term success to stick with JP even if it means being 6-10 this year. While 6-10 sounds like a larger then minor step back with the parity of the league these days we know all too well that a game can be won/lost on one single play. Realistically, I have a feeling we just won't make all the plays/more than we did last year hence a step backwards is a realistic expectation.

 

Bottom Linme: 16-0 is what I hope for but i think this is a pipe dream but so is 6-10. Looking at the way the schedule falls out it really will depend on what happens, but I see 10-6 as a far more likely outcome than 6-10 and even 11-5 is a real possibility if the ball bounces the right way.

[nick in* england]

1. Fair point. But Lee Evans had a great end to the season. Drew looked away from EM long enough to get him 10TDS or so.

 

2. TE is a weak spot. I suspect MM will have plans to use the more creatively and sparingly early on to help them get back to game speed. Next.

 

3. Agree. But the potential is there. They really need to do a number on a team early next season to prove they are a great D.

 

4. Consistancy is key. I see coverage and kicking being fine - but returning needs to be just as good as last year. Let's face it you'll never expect so many run-backs for a score as we got last year, but we have to have a returner that can get us in good position all the time.

 

5. All this talk about JPL's development is moot until training camp at the earliest.

[Kelly the Dog]

The 84 Bengals with Kenny Anderson at QB finished 8-8. They were fifth in offense, 13th in points and 12th in defense. Anderson threw 10 TDs and had 12 INTs. Turk Schonert had 4 TDs and 7 INTS.

 

The 85 Bengals with Boomer finished 7-9. They were 4th in offense, 3rd in points and 21st in defense. Boomer threw 27 TDs with 12 INTs.

[JAMIEBUF12]

hey i love the bills ,but when you have a rookie qb that is fair to assume he is going to struggle.and our special teams are not that great.the field goal kicker is part of special teams and there is nothing special about ryan lindell.i would be pleased with a 10-6 record this year.i think jp is gonna be a good one just not a all pro his 1st yr.go bills in'05

[John from Riverside]

I think they are just trying to justify their own predictions.....

 

In order for us to go any less then 9-7:

 

- Whoever they put at LT would really have to flounder......

 

- Ron Edwards would have to play like a total stiff

 

- We would have to take a major injury to a key player

 

 

We could even suffer an injury at QB......most teams cant say that.

[eventualchamps]

Me, I'm just happy that Billy B. can't put three in the box and expect to contain our QB. JP will burn them if they try it.

[jad1]

hey i love the bills ,but when you have a rookie qb that is fair to assume he is going to struggle.and our special teams are not that great.the field goal kicker is part of special teams and there is nothing special about ryan lindell.i would be pleased with a 10-6 record this year.i think jp is gonna be a good one just not a all pro his 1st yr.go bills in'05

381653[/snapback]

 

For the record, again, Losman is not a rookie. Like Brady, Culpepper, Palmer, Brees and Favre were, he is a starter in his 2nd year.

 

Not saying he'll do as well or poorly as those guys, but his experience level is roughly the same as theirs when they were named starters.

 

And the Bills special teams ARE that great, even with Lindell's average kicking performance.

 

You don't have three guys return kicks during the season for TDs and another guy block a punt for a TD on a special teams unit that is 'not great.'

 

They even have a punter who can boom an 80 yarder on one punt, and then can run or pass for a first down on the next attempt.

 

You also have to consider that they're adding Parrish to the punt return team this year.

 

The special teams will continue to be great again this year.

[JinVA]

2.  I'm VERY concerned about the tight end position.  It could be the key to our offensive success - even more than our rookie QB.

381623[/snapback]

 

Regardless of how well the team says our TE's are recovering, I still say we will sign a tightend before the pre season gets under way. Young QB's are notorious for looking early and often to their TE's.

[LabattBlue]

As for Jennings, losing arguably the best offensive lineman you have from a line that was suspect to begin with is at least worthy of concern.  Fans here have expressed often enough their concerns regarding the line so it is no surprise that sports writers are also concerned.

 

381616[/snapback]

I'm sure losing Jennings who plays the key OL position, protecting the QB's blindside, was the biggest reason for the gloom and doom from the prognosticators. If Gandy doesn't work out, moving Teague to LT means you now have new starters at 2 of the 5 OL positions. Here's hoping Gandy is the answer.

[Ramius]

And the Bills special teams ARE that great, even with Lindell's average kicking performance. 

 

381792[/snapback]

 

Damn, in all my excitement about this upcoming season, i almost forgot we still have lindell as our kicker...sh--!!!!!! we are sunk in close games...