VABills Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 So just when you think the courts can't come up with more stupid rulings, here comes another. DOD not permitted to help BSofA anymore because it violates religious freedom. What???? http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/07...2005/1120821109 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 So just when you think the courts can't come up with more stupid rulings, here comes another. DOD not permitted to help BSofA anymore because it violates religious freedom. What???? http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/07...2005/1120821109 377505[/snapback] From the article... The lawsuit was filed on behalf of religious leaders who oppose the use of government funds to support the Scouts. Can't pin this one on activist liberal judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 From the article...Can't pin this one on activist liberal judges. 377528[/snapback] Did I pin it on anyone. I just don't understand the ruling or how this has anything to do with religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 It's in the second line. How sad. Scout Oath On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Who were the religious leaders? It wasn't that long ago that there was a big flap about DoD support to the BSA because of the BSA position against homsexuals as scout leaders and members. could there be a back handed tie in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBill Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 It's in the second line. How sad. 377536[/snapback] It's more than the second line of the Scout pledge. A Scout participant must state or swear an allegiance to a higher power. This goes for the kids and the adult volunteers as well. They can be dismissed should they fail to state this allegiance publicly. I have worked with the Scouts professionally (note I said with, not for the Scouts) and I can state that overall they are a good group that does a lot of good for kids and the community. They just don't want to be told what to do regarding their discriminitory activities. While this will most likely get them more support in the short run from ardent believers in Scouting, it will probably harm them in the long run, and I would be willing to bet they will change or at least soften their stance on these issues. Scouting is a business with more than 1 billion dollars in revenue, it employs thousands of people and serves millions. Please don't take my statements as a slam against Scouting. I is just that their attitudes will eventually prevent them from serving the community as well as they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 The United Way won't give to the scouts for this reason. This is the reason they don't get my money. They wil support some wacked out groups though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBill Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 The United Way won't give to the scouts for this reason. This is the reason they don't get my money.They wil support some wacked out groups though. 377677[/snapback] The fact is, there are over 1,400 separate United Ways in the country. Only about 20 of them don't give to the Scouts. Painting the United Way, a decetralized locally goverened charity (unlike the Scouts) with a broad brush is similar to painting all conservatives or liberals or for that matter, muslims with a broad brush. As a long time reader, but admittedly infrequent poster here, I see where that seems to the MO of many posters here. As a result, no real suprises in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 It's more than the second line of the Scout pledge. A Scout participant must state or swear an allegiance to a higher power. This goes for the kids and the adult volunteers as well. They can be dismissed should they fail to state this allegiance publicly. 377666[/snapback] Admittedly, I don't have any knowledge about the Scouts other than they exist and that the military likes Eagle Scouts. The allegiance to a higher power is similar to a lot of fraternal organizations that require the same. It's not an exercise in brainwashing or religious conversion, but rather a belief that you will be held accountable for your actions to a higher power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBill Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Admittedly, I don't have any knowledge about the Scouts other than they exist and that the military likes Eagle Scouts. The allegiance to a higher power is similar to a lot of fraternal organizations that require the same. It's not an exercise in brainwashing or religious conversion, but rather a belief that you will be held accountable for your actions to a higher power. 377697[/snapback] I think your statement comparing the Scouts to fraternal organization is right on target. The gripe some people have with the Scouts (not me personally, I think the Scouts do far more good than anything else) is that they practice exclusionary tactics (not allowing atheists or homosexuals) and yet are allowed privileged access to government facilities (schools, military bases, etc). The heart of their argument is not that the Scouts don't like atheists, but that the Scouts are exclusionary, and tax dollars that support those government facilcities aren't collected in an exclusionary fashion. My own minimal gripe with the Scouts is when any organization discriminates against any group, it will cause that organization to be a less effective organization in the long run. Having dealt with the Scouts on a business basis for years, I just think discrimination is a bad business practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Well, I live in the SF Bay area where the local United Way has done just that. Also the Peoples Republic of Berkeley had banned the Sea Scouts from using the Berkeley Marina for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Well the Boy Scouts would not let my son join because of his diabetes. I guess I could have sued and won but why bother. To hell I pitch them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Well the Boy Scouts would not let my son join because of his diabetes. I guess I could have sued and won but why bother. To hell I pitch them all. 377730[/snapback] I'm sorry that happened. Just to let you know, that yellow sh*t that you have in you sig, is unreadable. I'm telling you this because I know how much those kinds of things mean to you. Try another color, if you want it (red) Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Well the Boy Scouts would not let my son join because of his diabetes. I guess I could have sued and won but why bother. To hell I pitch them all. 377730[/snapback] Nothing like sending your child off with the troop for a weekend (or whetever the Boy Scouts do in thier meetings) with Troop Masters (or whatever they call them) who don't know how to take care of a diabetic. My brother has been Type 1 since he was nine months old, and he missed out on a lot of things as a kid because of it. I highly doubt there are many Troop Masters out there who know when to give a diabetic a booster shot or when to give them sugar. My brother has gone through many reactions over the years and the thought of him having one to this day still scares the sh-- out me. It's cool to get mad and all, but couple this with today's sue happy society and you have a compelling case to keep diabetics out of the Scouts. I don't know what your particular case was, nor do I care, but you have to fair across the board... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Nothing like sending your child off with the troop for a weekend (or whetever the Boy Scouts do in thier meetings) with Troop Masters (or whatever they call them) who don't know how to take care of a diabetic. My brother has been Type 1 since he was nine months old, and he missed out on a lot of things as a kid because of it. I highly doubt there are many Troop Masters out there who know when to give a diabetic a booster shot or when to give them sugar. My brother has gone through many reactions over the years and the thought of him having one to this day still scares the sh-- out me. It's cool to get mad and all, but couple this with today's sue happy society and you have a compelling case to keep diabetics out of the Scouts. I don't know what your particular case was, nor do I care, but you have to fair across the board... right? 377795[/snapback] The policy is very likely in response to having a lawsuit filed against them and having to settle for alot of money. Welcome to our too litigious society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 The fact is, there are over 1,400 separate United Ways in the country. Only about 20 of them don't give to the Scouts. Painting the United Way, a decetralized locally goverened charity (unlike the Scouts) with a broad brush is similar to painting all conservatives or liberals or for that matter, muslims with a broad brush. As a long time reader, but admittedly infrequent poster here, I see where that seems to the MO of many posters here. As a result, no real suprises in your post. 377691[/snapback] Absolutely correct; if anything, it's even fewer than 20. In fact, I just cut checks to the local Cub pack, Scout troop, and BSA Council serving our area. While our local United Fund is an affiliate of the state-level UW, financial decisions are made solely by our Board of Directors, all of whom must reside in our service area. Here's what the national United Way has to say about the Scouting issue: http://national.unitedway.org/aboutuw/boyscouts.cfm"Action taken by the volunteer board of any local United Way has no bearing on any other United Way or Boy Scout Council across the country. United Way of America as the national membership service and training organization for local United Way organizations, does not dictate policy or funding decisions to local United Ways except to the extent that funding decisions must be consistent with applicable laws." Wacka, my sympathies to you for residing in the People's Republic of California..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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