Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 10, 2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Name one....ONE time in post Vietnam warfare where civilians were targeted by "us". 378362[/snapback] Libya. Targeted Qadaffi's family.
chicot Posted July 10, 2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Name one....ONE time in post Vietnam warfare where civilians were targeted by "us". 378362[/snapback] Not really the point. Bill seems to be advocating the carpet bombing of the middle east so in that case we certainly would be targeting civilians and that is what I am getting at. I'm not even sure that civilians were deliberately targeted in Vietnam (though my knowledge about that conflict is sketchy). I think there were some massacres though I believe they were the result of rogue elements in the military rather that actual high-level policy. Any history buffs out there to help out? CTM?
UConn James Posted July 10, 2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Not really the point. Bill seems to be advocating the carpet bombing of the middle east so in that case we certainly would be targeting civilians and that is what I am getting at. I'm not even sure that civilians were deliberately targeted in Vietnam (though my knowledge about that conflict is sketchy). I think there were some massacres though I believe they were the result of rogue elements in the military rather that actual high-level policy. Any history buffs out there to help out? CTM? 378372[/snapback] I'm not sure about "high-level policy" (maybe by tacit understanding) but there were provinces where the chickens were VC. An uncle who was 1/2 mile from the DMZ when Tet came down has told me he didn't discriminate in certain places. If it moved, you shot it. Just the way it was.
blzrul Posted July 10, 2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Not really the point. Bill seems to be advocating the carpet bombing of the middle east so in that case we certainly would be targeting civilians and that is what I am getting at. I'm not even sure that civilians were deliberately targeted in Vietnam (though my knowledge about that conflict is sketchy). I think there were some massacres though I believe they were the result of rogue elements in the military rather that actual high-level policy. Any history buffs out there to help out? CTM? 378372[/snapback] It all depends on who you talk to. William Calley was a convicted "rogue element". I know guys who insist they were ordered to kill villagers...maybe they were and maybe 40+ years later that's what they have to believe in order to live with it. I am not going to judge them. War kills civilians, period. There's no way around it. Therefore deliberately starting a war is tacit targeting of civilians although of course most responsible soldiers will do everything possible to avoid hurting them. The only way NOT to hurt them is not to war. My next door neighbor when I was a child was a bombadier in WWII. He was the most gentle, soft-spoken man. When you asked him what he did in the war he stated "I killed women and children." War sucks as far as I'm concerned.
erynthered Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 My next door neighbor when I was a child was a bombadier in WWII. He was the most gentle, soft-spoken man. When you asked him what he did in the war he stated "I killed women and children." . 378378[/snapback] Some serial killers said the same thing, nice work. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
SilverNRed Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 War sucks as far as I'm concerned. 378378[/snapback] Most of the rest of us think it's pretty darn awesome.
RkFast Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Libya. Targeted Qadaffi's family. 378364[/snapback] Were we really targeting his family in that operation? I dont recall. But youd know better than me. Point still stands thoough, and I still refute chicot's claim that Coalition FOrces have purposely targeted civilians. The way he talks, youd think it was Dresden all over again.
VABills Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Libya. Targeted Qadaffi's family. 378364[/snapback] Damn we were a bad shot then. All we really got was the French Embassy.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 From the article: "He added: We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity." Need I say more? Animals.
chicot Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Were we really targeting his family in that operation? I dont recall. But youd know better than me. Point still stands thoough, and I still refute chicot's claim that Coalition FOrces have purposely targeted civilians. The way he talks, youd think it was Dresden all over again. 378522[/snapback] You are misreading my post. My point was that if coalition forces follow Bill's plan then they would be deliberately targetting civilians. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough in the original post.
Reuben Gant Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 The Mysteries of War + destruction of homes, villages, cities, crops, and land, + separation of families and imprisonment of dissenters. + contamination of water, degradation of the environment + torture, wounding, and killing of the living Dorothy Day
RkFast Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 You are misreading my post. My point was that if coalition forces follow Bill's plan then they would be deliberately targetting civilians. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough in the original post. 378545[/snapback] Thank You for the clarification.
TheMadCap Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Were we really targeting his family in that operation? I dont recall. But youd know better than me. Point still stands thoough, and I still refute chicot's claim that Coalition FOrces have purposely targeted civilians. The way he talks, youd think it was Dresden all over again. 378522[/snapback] I believe the CTM is correct. They targeted at least two of his personal residences. Killed a number of his sons too....
UConn James Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 I'd be Get-Out-of-Town surprised if we didn't target the families of the cartel leaders in the 'War on Drugs.' And why not? They did the same thing.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 I believe the CTM is correct. They targeted at least two of his personal residences. Killed a number of his sons too.... 378600[/snapback] His daughter Haifa, actually. And targeted only one residence that I can positively identify...though we did target some barracks that he may or may not have been "known" to use (public information seems sketchy on that; media reports are all over the map on the whole thing). At any rate, Qadaffi Duck was a target as near as I can tell, and to the point of targeting structures his family was known or could reasonably be expected to be. The caveat being that the attitude seems to have been "Who gives a sh--, just so we get him"...more callous than but not entirely unlike the attempts against Saddam.
Alaska Darin Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Damn we were a bad shot then. All we really got was the French Embassy. 378527[/snapback] We'd have had better aim if we hadn't had to fly around France.
VABills Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 We'd have had better aim if we hadn't had to fly around France. 378842[/snapback] What you think those guys did that on purpose?
Alaska Darin Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 What you think those guys did that on purpose? 378846[/snapback] Nah, but when you're bleary eyed the French (or Chinese for that matter) Embassy can look an awful lot like a terrorist haven.
RkFast Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Nah, but when you're bleary eyed the French (or Chinese for that matter) Embassy can look an awful lot like a terrorist haven. 378847[/snapback] THAT would have been great.
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