Brandon Beane on WGR

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

Beane B word'n about bills fans when we have the best fans in the NFL. 

 

I didn’t take it that way at all. He was talking to the radio clowns who had imperfect track records themselves and make a living by stirring up sh!t on the Bills. He really IS smarter about football  than they are, and I understand that.  He didn’t in any way say anything demeaning Bills fans imo. 

[Pete]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You see now, I might have signed up for that as a T-shirt. 

 

Maybe even a hoodie. 

 

It’s great that we are all different, or things would be far too boring. 

Agreed.  I’m in Massachusetts.  When Pats fans talk about Josh and Bills Mafia- I often say “we can’t all be Bills Mafia”

[The Wiz]

45 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I didn’t take it that way at all. He was talking to the radio clowns who had imperfect track records themselves and make a living by stirring up sh!t on the Bills. He really IS smarter about football  than they are, and I understand that.  He didn’t in any way say anything demeaning Bills fans imo. 

Even if you wanted to say the "fantasy football" comment was against bills fans I wouldn't be offended.  Beane has forgotten more about being an NFL GM than I will ever learn.  I have no place to criticize what he does.  I don't have to agree with/like it but that's why I'm not a GM.

Edited 3 hours ago by The Wiz

[MasterStrategist]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I take your point, but the Bills defense taking the ball away is something you can pretty much hang your hat on with this team. Will it always come at the most opportune moments? Maybe not. But their track record for having them in big moments is actually pretty decent. Two of their last three victories over the Chiefs for example have been sealed by game ending interceptions of Mahomes. The Miami must win game week 18 last year the same, the famous forced fumble a few years ago when the Cam Newton Patriots were threatening to shock us at home. Even going back to the Raiders and Buccs games in McDermott's first year we had critical turnovers right at the end. 

 

They being near the top of the league in defensive takeaways is a pretty safe bet. Them being at the top of turnover differential feels a much riskier proposition. 

 

I'd say this is exactly the inverse of your point about defensive turnovers. They definitely were hurt by it in the loss to Baltimore when the Ravens said openly that their plan was to give the Bills the outside and force them to win out there and the next week in Houston when without Shakir Josh completed nine passes in 60 minutes of football. And in the AFCCG when they had the chance to go win the game and couldn't move the ball down the field. 

 

Is WR play stopping us being a division winner and a superbowl contender? Nope. Is it a factor that's stopping us getting over the top? Yep. Not the only one, sure. But it is one. 

Again, why do fans ignore Palmer and Keon?

 

You act like Beane sat on his hands.  Keon was widely known to need time to develop- will he?  Well we need to be patient and find out.  We just invested a very early 2nd rounder last year. 

 

Then onto Palmer.  This guy will separate outside and has had success downfield- he is certainly an upgrade on the corpse of Cooper.

 

You act like we have nobody to step up.  After doing all this draft research, maybe you need to look into being patient with player development?  Keon will be better this year and we drafted him for that role outside.

[oldmanfan]

In the history of professional football has there ever been so much angst about what was picked or not picked in the lower rounds of the draft?

[PrimeTime101]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have not argued they should have drafted a receiver on day 1 or 2 of this past draft. Nor was that what Jeremy and Joe were arguing. Indeed go to the Landon Jackson draft thread from Friday night and you will find me arguing against the people angry it wasn't a receiver. 

 

My point is a much broader one that is not focussed on this past draft and for all Brandon's protestations I'm afraid the numbers do not support him. The Bills, relative to the average level in the NFL under invest in receivers come draft time. At the end of the day 1 receiver drafted in the first three rounds across EIGHT drafts. 40 total picks in rounds 1-5 as Bills GM, only 4 spent on receiver. 

 

And the argument against your "but vets give Josh more security" argument is mid level vets also require salary cap investment. Gabe Davis and Kahlil Shakir gave up mid level vet or better production for a fraction of the cost on rookie deals. 

bolded I understand that.. but what does any of that have to do with THIS topic of Beane Slamming guys on WGR about THIS draft?  

 

My guess nothing..  But i see your point. 

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Our 3rd down defense has to be better than last year. No question. Was only average in 2023 too. Basically been a problem since Leslie left.

It's been a problem because of talent- not Frazier IMO.

 

And yes, 3rd down defense is much more important than turnovers.  Getting a 3rd down stop is exactly a turnover/albeit a 40-50 yard field position.  But when you have a great offense, that doesn't matter.

 

Get the ball back, turnovers/stops on 3rd downs.  For an educated fans like yourself, you seem so focused on proving our turnovers have been consistent year to year.

 

You jumped into a conversation, point of mine about turnovers being volatile. Now in a tiredness fashion, continued to force that conversation.

 

Again - this is simple, we couldn't save our lives to get off the field LY.  Who cares we were 3rd in the NFL in defensive turnovers, when we allow teams to convert an obscene amount of 3rd downs?

 

This team has failed to stop a nose drip in the playoffs, against Mahomes/Burrow.  We need a change, and some "vertical threat" isn't holding back the offense.

 

Palmer, Keon = your main vertical threats.  Maybe a surprise contender for Wr5 emerges.  But we have a talented enough offense to win a SB- can we hold a team under 30 points when it counts?

[slaphappy]

I think we are spoiled if you haven't been a fan of this team for more than 20 years. No we can't get over the hump.. but imagine having the Browns front office over the last 20 years? Their futility has been most of my 47 years of Bills fandom. This current era is comparable to the 4 Superbowl loses. Hurt like a mofo but you will look back on it fondly when it ends suddenly.

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

It's been a problem because of talent- not Frazier IMO.

 

And yes, 3rd down defense is much more important than turnovers.  Getting a 3rd down stop is exactly a turnover/albeit a 40-50 yard field position.  But when you have a great offense, that doesn't matter.

 

Get the ball back, turnovers/stops on 3rd downs.  For an educated fans like yourself, you seem so focused on proving our turnovers have been consistent year to year.

 

You jumped into a conversation, point of mine about turnovers being volatile. Now in a tiredness fashion, continued to force that conversation.

 

Again - this is simple, we couldn't save our lives to get off the field LY.  Who cares we were 3rd in the NFL in defensive turnovers, when we allow teams to convert an obscene amount of 3rd downs?

 

This team has failed to stop a nose drip in the playoffs, against Mahomes/Burrow.  We need a change, and some "vertical threat" isn't holding back the offense.

 

Palmer, Keon = your main vertical threats.  Maybe a surprise contender for Wr5 emerges.  But we have a talented enough offense to win a SB- can we hold a team under 30 points when it counts?

Keon doesn't separate. He's a slow build up to speed, contested catch fella. I am skeptical he is the vertical threat you need and he is probably best suited lined up in the slot, but maybe he has a leap and surprises. Palmer does separate, but he doesn't have explosive speed. I don't see either filling the role of vertical threat that opens up the field for the rest of the offense. If Amari Cooper has something left in the tank, I'd like to add him, because he more legitimately adds that aspect to the WR room. He might be done.

 

I'm glad we improved the D. It was needed. We still neglect WR. Folks can argue and believe otherwise. It was a weak WR draft. We should have done better last year. We didn't, so I think a midround pick was in order. Beane thought otherwise. The season will prove out whether his calculations are correct, and I hope they are. Otherwise, we might be burning another 3rd round pick at the trade deadline to fill out the WR room.

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Keon doesn't separate. He's a slow build up to speed, contested catch fella. I am skeptical he is the vertical threat you need and he is probably best suited lined up in the slot, but maybe he has a leap and surprises. Palmer does separate, but he doesn't have explosive speed. I don't see either filling the role of vertical threat that opens up the field for the rest of the offense. If Amari Cooper has something left in the tank, I'd like to add him, because he more legitimately adds that aspect to the WR room. He might be done.

 

I'm glad we improved the D. It was needed. We still neglect WR. Folks can argue and believe otherwise. It was a weak WR draft. We should have done better last year. We didn't, so I think a midround pick was in order. Beane thought otherwise. The season will prove out whether his calculations are correct, and I hope they are. Otherwise, we might be burning another 3rd round pick at the trade deadline to fill out the WR room.

Can't show a crystal ball...so we'll have to agree to disagree on Keon/Palmer abilities.

 

Cooper was washed LY.  Speaking of contested catches, that was basically what was happening. Josh wasn't leading a wide open guy downfield.  So yes, Cooper brought contested catch abilityand some remarkable catches but when I say washed- his speed was non existent.  Am I the only one seeing that?  Their were numerous NFL coaches saying the same thing LY.

 

So I don't get this issue with Keon.  Cooper wasn't a vertical speed guy LY either.

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Again, why do fans ignore Palmer and Keon?

 

You act like Beane sat on his hands.  Keon was widely known to need time to develop- will he?  Well we need to be patient and find out.  We just invested a very early 2nd rounder last year. 

 

Then onto Palmer.  This guy will separate outside and has had success downfield- he is certainly an upgrade on the corpse of Cooper.

 

You act like we have nobody to step up.  After doing all this draft research, maybe you need to look into being patient with player development?  Keon will be better this year and we drafted him for that role outside.

 

I don't think Keon Coleman will be a successful outside NFL receiver. I didn't coming out. And he only reinforced my view in 2024. His best plays were invariably made when we got him in tight, got the ball into his hands and let him run after the catch. That is his skillset. I said 2 months before the Bills drafted him that his path to success in the NFL was a big slot. That is still my view. 

 

As for Josh Palmer, I like him. He probably is an upgrade on the corpse of Cooper's career but he is what he is. He will likely have a career year with Josh Allen throwing him the ball. But he is another complimentary receiver. They don't have that guy that dictates coverage and I don't think Palmer will instantly back teams of playing inside to out and creeping up into the box. If you are a DC gameplanning for the Bills your plan is take Cook away, stop Allen scrambling out to his right and clog the passing lanes in the middle of the field where they want to get Kincaid and Shakir. That is still the way I'd play us because I don't think we have a great counter.

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

bolded I understand that.. but what does any of that have to do with THIS topic of Beane Slamming guys on WGR about THIS draft?  

 

My guess nothing..  But i see your point. 

 

 

 

The guys on WGR were making a similar point. I listened to the entire morning show yesterday. They said multiple times that they thought the Bills had a good first two days of the draft. Like many of us here they hoped for a developmental receiver with some speed early on day 3 and the fact we didn't draft one to the 7th was interesting. Their point was not we are doomed because we didn't draft a receiver this year. It was it feels like another draft where the Bills didn't make weapons for Josh a priority. 

 

Beane obviously did not hear the entire thing heard one snippet and came in hot ranting and raving. It was very unlike him.

40 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

It's been a problem because of talent- not Frazier IMO.

 

And yes, 3rd down defense is much more important than turnovers.  Getting a 3rd down stop is exactly a turnover/albeit a 40-50 yard field position.  But when you have a great offense, that doesn't matter.

 

Get the ball back, turnovers/stops on 3rd downs.  For an educated fans like yourself, you seem so focused on proving our turnovers have been consistent year to year.

 

You jumped into a conversation, point of mine about turnovers being volatile. Now in a tiredness fashion, continued to force that conversation.

 

Again - this is simple, we couldn't save our lives to get off the field LY.  Who cares we were 3rd in the NFL in defensive turnovers, when we allow teams to convert an obscene amount of 3rd downs?

 

This team has failed to stop a nose drip in the playoffs, against Mahomes/Burrow.  We need a change, and some "vertical threat" isn't holding back the offense.

 

Palmer, Keon = your main vertical threats.  Maybe a surprise contender for Wr5 emerges.  But we have a talented enough offense to win a SB- can we hold a team under 30 points when it counts?

 

The talent has definitely dropped off as the 1st era defense phased out but Leslie Frazier has been a loss to the Bills. It is beyond doubt in my mind. Most of the board didn't like him. Most of the board was wrong.

[MasterStrategist]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Keon Coleman will be a successful outside NFL receiver. I didn't coming out. And he only reinforced my view in 2024. His best plays were invariably made when we got him in tight, got the ball into his hands and let him run after the catch. That is his skillset. I said 2 months before the Bills drafted him that his path to success in the NFL was a big slot. That is still my view. 

 

As for Josh Palmer, I like him. He probably is an upgrade on the corpse of Cooper's career but he is what he is. He will likely have a career year with Josh Allen throwing him the ball. But he is another complimentary receiver. They don't have that guy that dictates coverage and I don't think Palmer will instantly back teams of playing inside to out and creeping up into the box. If you are a DC gameplanning for the Bills your plan is take Cook away, stop Allen scrambling out to his right and clog the passing lanes in the middle of the field where they want to get Kincaid and Shakir. That is still the way I'd play us because I don't think we have a great counter.

So I think you're going back and forth with your points now:

1. Keon: we can agree to disagree.  I think he's going to prove doubters wrong this season- he'll continue to get used outside exclusively

 

2. Palmer- agree. but he brings a downfield presence, it's not like he's Tyreek, but he will easily step up for Coopers role

 

3. On Palmer dictating coverage: here is where you start to cross your wires.  You're main point in the draft was to get a mid round vertical player.  Now you're saying Palmer isn't the coverage dictator we need- newsflash that wasn't coming in Rd 4 plus or even Rd 3

 

4. Strategy to defend us: yes alot of teams try to play Buffalo that way.  How did that work the last 8+ games?  Especially a Denver defense that was loaded?  Point is, we have an offense capable of beating teams in a variety of ways.  You're oversimplifying an approach, and again, newsflash you think this is a revolutionary thought on how to defend us?  Did teams try and fail, yes. Biggest reason is our OL.  We have a top tier OL, that unless you have an equally talented dline (like Houston did), it's hard as hell to defend everything we bring.  Go ahead and take chances blitzing, it better be well timed or Josh is going to burn you one way or another.  

 

But let's not act like the top offense in the NFL is so easily defended with your suggested approach. Somehow a weird justification to why we're missing a WR to counter teams.  Again, what output did we see from this offense, consistently?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

So I think you're going back and forth with your points now:

1. Keon: we can agree to disagree.  I think he's going to prove doubters wrong this season- he'll continue to get used outside exclusively

 

2. Palmer- agree. but he brings a downfield presence, it's not like he's Tyreek, but he will easily step up for Coopers role

 

3. On Palmer dictating coverage: here is where you start to cross your wires.  You're main point in the draft was to get a mid round vertical player.  Now you're saying Palmer isn't the coverage dictator we need- newsflash that wasn't coming in Rd 4 plus or even Rd 3

 

4. Strategy to defend us: yes alot of teams try to play Buffalo that way.  How did that work the last 8+ games?  Especially a Denver defense that was loaded?  Point is, we have an offense capable of beating teams in a variety of ways.  You're oversimplifying an approach, and again, newsflash you think this is a revolutionary thought on how to defend us?  Did teams try and fail, yes. Biggest reason is our OL.  We have a top tier OL, that unless you have an equally talented dline (like Houston did), it's hard as hell to defend everything we bring.  Go ahead and take chances blitzing, it better be well timed or Josh is going to burn you one way or another.  

 

But let's not act like the top offense in the NFL is so easily defended with your suggested approach. Somehow a weird justification to why we're missing a WR to counter teams.  Again, what output did we see from this offense, consistently?

 

1. Yea. I very strongly disgaree.

2. I think that's fair on Palmer.

3. I am really not. My point about this draft is not there was a guy to transform us this year that Beane missed on. It is that the things he prioritised over and above a developmental vertical receiver on day 3 are indicitive of the urgency and priority he attaches to the position. Maybe none of the developmental guys in the class ever amount to anything. But Beane's two best receiver picks were day 3 developmental guys that did. And you miss every shot you don't take. There were intriguing developmental options there. The Bills had at least four of them in the building for visits. And they instead focused on TE3, and a Cam Lewis upgrade etc. 

4. Of course the Bills are hard to defend. They have Josh freaking Allen. But there were teams who were able to do it. The Bills will be a top 5 scoring offense again. I have no doubt about that. But just saying that is good enough and not seeking out more talent for Josh is a mistake. 

 

If people are mad about this draft in isolation because we didn't get a receiver that's one thing. I think this is my favourite Beane draft since at least 2019 and has the potential to be his best since 2018. But I am worried about his approach to receiver. Not just in this draft. More generally. I don't think he does prioritise it sufficiently. 

[balln]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. Yea. I very strongly disgaree.

2. I think that's fair on Palmer.

3. I am really not. My point about this draft is not there was a guy to transform us this year that Beane missed on. It is that the things he prioritised over and above a developmental vertical receiver on day 3 are indicitive of the urgency and priority he attaches to the position. Maybe none of the developmental guys in the class ever amount to anything. But Beane's two best receiver picks were day 3 developmental guys that did. And you miss every shot you don't take. There were intriguing developmental options there. The Bills had at least four of them in the building for visits. And they instead focused on TE3, and a Cam Lewis upgrade etc. 

4. Of course the Bills are hard to defend. They have Josh freaking Allen. But there were teams who were able to do it. The Bills will be a top 5 scoring offense again. I have no doubt about that. But just saying that is good enough and not seeking out more talent for Josh is a mistake. 

 

If people are mad about this draft in isolation because we didn't get a receiver that's one thing. I think this is my favourite Beane draft since at least 2019 and has the potential to be his best since 2018. But I am worried about his approach to receiver. Not just in this draft. More generally. I don't think he does prioritise it sufficiently. 

He has no problem on multiple swings at the plate for DL and CB for prime drafting slots. But wr never gets a chance. I just don’t think you can hope for Keon Coleman to be anything.  Would have / should have double dipped last year. Walker I think was a reach this year. He’s Jordan Phillips w a back issue that won’t go away. Rather he not have traded up. And take the csu wr. 
 

the more I think about it . Listening to beane talk and how he defends himself. I think the only reason he drafted Coleman. And again he traded back cuz all the wr options were meh at that point. So he didn’t LOVE Coleman. Is because he made the move to dump Diggs (which was the right move). I know that sounds obvious. But I seriously believe , in part, that he did it to save face w Josh and the fan base / media. 
 

I think last years draft is gonna suck when it’s all said and done. Cole bishop better turn into a starter and a player . Carter gonna be a backup and an out of position player and maybe even cut soon. Once again. Picks 1-3 are super meh. And decent mid to late round picks.