Brandon Beane on WGR

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Turnovers are volatile, everyone knows that.

 

For the Bills, on defense, not so much. 

 

2024: 32 (3rd in the NFL)

2023: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

2022: 27 (4th in the NFL - despite playing one game fewer)

2021: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

- - - - years below are 16 game seasons - - - -

2020: 26 (3rd in NFL)

2019: 23 (10th in the NFL)

2018: 27 (8th in the NFL)

2017: 25 (9th in the NFL)

 

They have NEVER been outside the top 10 in takeaways under Sean McDermott. That is staggering consistency and says something about how well coached they are on that side of the ball. 

 

What was unusual about last season - and is unlikely to be repeated IMO - was their record low in giveaways. They have generally been around middle of the pack in terms of giveaways - averaging 20ish turnovers per year. Then last year suddenly they had a record low with 8 and when you couple that with their consistent ability to take the ball away on defense they suddenly rocketed to the top of turnover differential and that contributed to wins, without question. 

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Even this morning these guys still aren’t getting it. Complaining about Kinkaid and Samuel. Acting like we weren’t good enough still on offense. Just trying to discredit what Beane said. Offended by the fantasy football comment like they are above that.

 

We score more than anybody, we have the mvp of the league at QB, we win all the time because of the offense, move the ball at will, scored 30 tds rushing and 30passing which is inconceivable. 
 

every good QB has all day to throw on us, we never make big stops, if we aren’t turning people over we aren’t stopping them, the defense got us knocked out of the playoffs every year after Jacksonville. Almost every team in the nfl would trade their offense for ours….

 

WR train.. you just sound ridiculous 

 

The concern is everyone just expects the offense to pick up where it was last year with no further charges. That Josh is going to have another otherworldly season rather than regressing go 'merely' world class. That James Cook is going to be the same player as he was last year, despite other teams building and planning over the office season. The O Line will remain strong, but the Bills offense is too reliant on people rather than design. It needs something different and, despite the opportunity being there in the draft to do so, Beane decided against it.

 

I doubt many people were too unhappy with the first three picks. It's number four where the questions begin. Perhaps Beane, despite his defensiveness on the radio call, feels the same way and that's why they have hosted Moore etc. We saw last year what happened when the Bills became one dimensional - they had to reach for Cooper.

[LEBills]

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Even this morning these guys still aren’t getting it. Complaining about Kinkaid and Samuel. Acting like we weren’t good enough still on offense. Just trying to discredit what Beane said. Offended by the fantasy football comment like they are above that.

 

We score more than anybody, we have the mvp of the league at QB, we win all the time because of the offense, move the ball at will, scored 30 tds rushing and 30passing which is inconceivable. 
 

every good QB has all day to throw on us, we never make big stops, if we aren’t turning people over we aren’t stopping them, the defense got us knocked out of the playoffs every year after Jacksonville. Almost every team in the nfl would trade their offense for ours….

 

WR train.. you just sound ridiculous 

I don’t think anyone is saying defense isnt where the most improvement was needed and most picks should have gone.
 

The argument is that WR should have probably been prioritized over a Cam Lewis replacement, a Quentin Morris replacement, a third DB, and an OL who may have difficulty making the roster. (And honestly I liked ALL of those individual players). The reason being having a more talented WR group may make it so that Josh doesn’t have to literally play perfect to reach those point totals. And yes a 4th or 5th round rookie probably doesn’t make a huge impact on 2025. But maybe by 2026 or 2027 you have someone good on the roster so you don’t have to pay average guys in FA or need an early round rookie WR to step up immediately. 

[NoSaint]

37 minutes ago, Jdragon2 said:

 

If you depend on a defense to get turnovers to be good, you're already thinking poorly. I'd rather take a top 5 defense with bottom 5 turnovers then top 5 turnovers and 20+ defense.

 

I get the WR takes, but the fact is even with a #1 we aren't going to force-feed them the ball. They've shown that all year last year and from what I can tell thats not going to change. What does it matter if the receivers we have are capable? Keon is still a "?" but Shakir is proven. Knox is proven (to a point) Kincaid should hopefully bounce back. Palmer should be decent. Find me one more average or better outside receiver and I don't see the issue. Which, by the way, we weren't likely to find in the bottom half of the draft. 

 

If they sign Moore then thats even less of a reason to be ticked since they obviously see the need and are looking to address it. I understand why Beane acted like he did, and I agree with most everything he said. Jeremy has been fixated on this WR thing for years.

 

That he hadn't finished his route, or there was a miscommunication with a rookie and quarterback, what does a star QB trying to bully his way through 3-4 defense only to fumble the ball say about HIS football acumen.... 

 

Edit: Or throwing into triple coverage? Or throwing a death ball in the middle of the field? the list could go on

 

Going to call him a bust too?

come on - you don’t think that spreading the ball was a result of having 4 WR2-3 and no WR1?

 

if we plopped a chase or Jefferson in, he just gets hollins targets?

[The Jokeman]

51 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Beane has used a good amount of capital to get Josh weapons but he just hasn't hit. The trade that kills me is the one moving up for Kincaid when we already had Knox on the team. A first and a fourth when perhaps we could have gone up and gotten Addison, Flowers or Smith-Njigba. Our offense would have been cooking in 23 with Diggs and one of those guys. That pick imo cost us a title.

Cuz those WRs could play defense and avoid the Chiefs from scoring 27 points in 2023 and 32 in 2024? Clamor all you want be Beane's point was that our offense was the league's best at scoring points last year and even if we improved it we very wouldn't have made a difference because our defense wasn't up to par.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

28 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Even this morning these guys still aren’t getting it. Complaining about Kinkaid and Samuel. Acting like we weren’t good enough still on offense. Just trying to discredit what Beane said. Offended by the fantasy football comment like they are above that.

 

We score more than anybody, we have the mvp of the league at QB, we win all the time because of the offense, move the ball at will, scored 30 tds rushing and 30passing which is inconceivable. 
 

every good QB has all day to throw on us, we never make big stops, if we aren’t turning people over we aren’t stopping them, the defense got us knocked out of the playoffs every year after Jacksonville. Almost every team in the nfl would trade their offense for ours….

 

WR train.. you just sound ridiculous 

Who?  The two on the morning show, or our resident Cassandra? 🤔😁

*
And I rarely agree with Brianmorman4jesus.

Edited 5 hours ago by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Captain Hindsight]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

come on - you don’t think that spreading the ball was a result of having 4 WR2-3 and no WR1?

 

if we plopped a chase or Jefferson in, he just gets hollins targets?

I think having no number one target actually makes them harder to defend. Having guys that are all good at getting open and can make plays with the ball in their hands makes defenses have to defend the entire field. If you have a game breaking talent, obviously you would use them. 

 

The only game last year I felt they were lacking talent was the Texans game, and they still nearly won that game despite Josh completing 9 passes 

[JP51]

2 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

Bad look for Beane.  Professionals are expected to be professional all the time.  

I remember Polian eventually getting to this point after he wasnt able to win one.  The old "if you don't like it get out of town" press conference.. the Beane one was tame compared to that... but these guys know that we have never won, they want more than anything to win one, they know the pressure is on, I hate to see them react to it like this...  it kinda gives you a sense of we are doing our best but we dont know what else to do feeling....  as opposed to the, calm down, look we know what the goal is, but we scored the most points in the league last year... our offense wasnt the issue... our defense needs to improve on multiple fronts if we are to take that next step and that is what we are trying to do.  Sometimes you have to allocate and balance assets... you got two kids names Offense and Defense... sometimes one kid needs more help and attention then the other... so you do what you need to do to make sure they are both in good shape...  but instead, he got defensive... 

[WNYFAN1]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For the Bills, on defense, not so much. 

 

2024: 32 (3rd in the NFL)

2023: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

2022: 27 (4th in the NFL - despite playing one game fewer)

2021: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

- - - - years below are 16 game seasons - - - -

2020: 26 (3rd in NFL)

2019: 23 (10th in the NFL)

2018: 27 (8th in the NFL)

2017: 25 (9th in the NFL)

 

They have NEVER been outside the top 10 in takeaways under Sean McDermott. That is staggering consistency and says something about how well coached they are on that side of the ball. 

 

What was unusual about last season - and is unlikely to be repeated IMO - was their record low in giveaways. They have generally been around middle of the pack in terms of giveaways - averaging 20ish turnovers per year. Then last year suddenly they had a record low with 8 and when you couple that with their consistent ability to take the ball away on defense they suddenly rocketed to the top of turnover differential and that contributed to wins, without question. 

Agreed, I don't know how you can go into the season banking on leading the league in turnover differential again. I think that's what many fans aren't appreciating enough, just how much the offense benefited from the turnovers.

[T master]

I love it Beane calling out the arm chair QB's that are as he said in so many words "fantasy football" guys ! 

 

They just look at the NFL from a fan type or side line view they don't live it, eat it, sleep it, and don't have the experience that Beane does and it would piss me off too if I was him .

 

The biggest point he made was that last season the Bills scored more points than any other team in the league and set a franchise record as far as point scored and that was with out a Stephon Diggs which previously was a bad A** WR on this team so I truly get why he was pissed ...

[DrDawkinstein]

Interesting points they just made on the J&J show.

 

Out of ALL the positions that Beane has neglected in the draft over his tenure, WR isnt the top. It is actually DT.

 

Before this draft Beane had spent exactly TWO picks on DT (Oliver and Carter), and the position has been an issue for us for the last 8 years, going back to Star and then the rotating door of scrap heap FAs we bring in.

 

Good to see both sides are working towards understanding each other.

[Cash]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For the Bills, on defense, not so much. 

 

2024: 32 (3rd in the NFL)

2023: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

2022: 27 (4th in the NFL - despite playing one game fewer)

2021: 30 (3rd in the NFL)

- - - - years below are 16 game seasons - - - -

2020: 26 (3rd in NFL)

2019: 23 (10th in the NFL)

2018: 27 (8th in the NFL)

2017: 25 (9th in the NFL)

 

They have NEVER been outside the top 10 in takeaways under Sean McDermott. That is staggering consistency and says something about how well coached they are on that side of the ball. 

 

What was unusual about last season - and is unlikely to be repeated IMO - was their record low in giveaways. They have generally been around middle of the pack in terms of giveaways - averaging 20ish turnovers per year. Then last year suddenly they had a record low with 8 and when you couple that with their consistent ability to take the ball away on defense they suddenly rocketed to the top of turnover differential and that contributed to wins, without question. 

Fully agreed. On the offense side, the best thing going for us statistically is that last year was a new scheme and new philosophy under a new OC. That’s the kind of thing that can have a major shift on TO rate. But, even granting that the Everybody Eats offense is one that inherently takes care of the ball, there’s only so much they have control of. Last year, we did a great job taking care of the ball, and also got most of the 50/50 breaks. 

[Shaw66]

I've read very little of this thread, and I haven't heard much of the Beane interview. All I listened to was when he first came on the air and ripped into them about their (and other people's) constant yammering about what Beane hasn't done about the wideout position.  I have a couple of thoughts. 

 

First, I think it was bad form for Beane to do that, especially right off the bat. What I liked about it was that he didn't seem over-sensitive - it's not like his feelings were hurt.  It was more like a barroom discussion where he came back strong in response to something stupid he heard.  Still, there's a PR portion of his job, and embarrassing media guys in your market is something you should do only when they're really out of control, like Jerry Sullivan was several years ago.  Beane should have kept quiet. 

 

Having said that, I'm glad he spoke up for another reason, and that's because I and other people around here need more support in the argument about wide receiver that keeps raging here. People who think the Bills need a classic, burner, number 1 receiver simply are not paying attention. The Bills do not agree with you. They don't.  They know what kind of personnel they need and want at wide out for the game they want to play. They collected a roomful of those players last season, they like that room, and they only tweaked it this year with the addition of Palmer. 

 

How do I know they like what they have?  Duh! - When they don't like what they have, they add players.  Like they did on the d line this draft and in free agency.

 

Why don't they want the receiver so many people are begging for?  I'd guess there are plenty of reasons. 1. They like the philosophy of spreading the ball around. They want to attack all over the field, in all different kinds of ways, and they don't want to have a player who demands the ball in order to make the offense work.

 

2. They don't want another prima donna, and star wideouts are prima donnas more often than most other positions.

 

3. They want guys who are good and aggressive blockers, and some, many, of the best receivers are not enthusiastic blockers.

 

4. They are ahead of the curve. A few months ago there was a thread here about how receivers are overpriced and their value is falling. It's the same phenomenon that I took so much heat for when I said running backs are a dime a dozen. The fact is that there are a lot of skilled receivers out there, so many that you can get them pretty cheaply. It's much better to spend your money on other positions and run a team concept in your receiver room, which is what the Bills are doing. For example, because they are dedicated to their rotation on the defensive line, the Bills essentially need 8 or 10 starter-caliber defensive linemen.  To have 8 or 10 starters, you have to dedicate resources - money and picks - to that position. If you're going to do that, you need to underspend someplace else. The Bills think their team approach in the receiver room allows them to have a good passing game without spending outrageous dollars on the talent. 

 

People will argue that the best receivers are so special, they make plays, etc. Well, yeah, and I get it, but they have a tendency to become the go-to guy in big play situations.  That means that on third and twelve, he's always your best option, and the defense knows that, and the defense has schemed for that. The Bills play a different way. With their collection of decent speed, different sized, good blocking, reliable receivers, on third and twelve the Bills say to the defense, "Cover all of them." The defense doesn't even know WHICH receivers are going to be on the field until the Bills put their package on the field 25 seconds before the snap. All the defense knows is that it's going to be some assortment of one or two running backs, one or two or no tight ends, and a collection of wideouts, all of whom can get deep, all of whom can line up anywhere, all of whom can catch, and all of whom can block. It's completely obvious that that is how the Bills want to play. 

 

McDermott's philosophy is that he wants his team to be able to play as many different ways as they possibly can. He wants players who can execute everything anyone has ever done successfully on a football field. In order to do that, he needs versatile players, not great players with limited skills.  That's why all the defensive linemen they get have speed and quickness. Why did it take so long for them to go  after a 340-pound defensive tackle? Because they've been waiting for one with foot speed and quickness. They believe they can teach a big guy with foot speed how to anchor the center of the line, but they can't teach a big guy who anchors naturally to run fast.  In the receiver room, it's pretty clear. Samuel, Shakir, Coleman. They're not identical, they all have strengths that make them a bit different from the others, but what they share is versatility and commitment to team play. Palmer looks like another one. They seem to be hoping they can grow Shavers into that sort of role, .  

or Prather - they both are in the Gabriel Davis mold, a different kind of versatile wideout. 

 

I'm not saying Beane and McDermott are right when they take this approach. I actually don't know. However, I understand their approach, and where I agree with Beane in his rant is that it seems pretty silly for people to insist that the Bills should take a different approach when this approach obviously has been successful.  The Bills score a lot of points and win a lot of games. It is very difficult to convince me or McBeane that they would score more or win more with a stud receiver who cost the Bills a lot of draft capital or cap room. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Interesting points they just made on the J&J show.

 

Out of ALL the positions that Beane has neglected in the draft over his tenure, WR isnt the top. It is actually DT.

 

Before this draft Beane had spent exactly TWO picks on DT (Oliver and Carter), and the position has been an issue for us for the last 8 years, going back to Star and then the rotating door of scrap heap FAs we bring in.

 

Good to see both sides are working towards understanding each other.

 

Three - Harrison Phillips. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Three - Harrison Phillips. 

 

Interesting they didnt include him.

[zow2]

I think Beane has had enough from those WGR clowns.  He popped off a bit but I didn't think he was out of line.  Media and fans ripped the Bills WR corp last summer and they led the league in points.  I mean that is something to be proud of.

 

At this point Beane and McD are trying their best to tweak this club into a Super Bowl berth.  It's tough.  Maybe they are willing to sacrifice 5% of offense production to get 10% more defensive production.  They see what we see. It doesn't always have to be the offense to make a play at the end of a KC game.  Maybe the defense can make a play.  

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

I think Beane has had enough from those WGR clowns.  He popped off a bit but I didn't think he was out of line.  Media and fans ripped the Bills WR corp last summer and they led the league in points.  I mean that is something to be proud of.

 

At this point Beane and McD are trying their best to tweak this club into a Super Bowl berth.  It's tough.  Maybe they are willing to sacrifice 5% of offense production to get 10% more defensive production.  They see what we see. It doesn't always have to be the offense to make a play at the end of a KC game.  Maybe the defense can make a play.  

 

I think this is exactly what they want going with a defensive minded draft. If the defense improves in forcing more 3 and outs and just stopping offenses in general, then that will go a long way in improving the Bills chances to win it all. The offense will be fine. It's a good offense as we have seen over the years.

[zevo]

5 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

It was amusing listening to Jeremy and Joe squirm this morning.  They were embarrassed on a national stage and are making it worse with their excuses of why Beane wasn't justified in his rant.  Someone important finally called them out on their lazy commentary and lack of insight.  It is sad that a great sports town like Buffalo has only one legit sports station and a serious lack of talent on that station.

They are reveling in this this am. White claiming he was pushing back on Beane. Ok there buddy

[UKBillFan]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I think Beane has had enough from those WGR clowns.  He popped off a bit but I didn't think he was out of line.  Media and fans ripped the Bills WR corp last summer and they led the league in points.  I mean that is something to be proud of.

 

At this point Beane and McD are trying their best to tweak this club into a Super Bowl berth.  It's tough.  Maybe they are willing to sacrifice 5% of offense production to get 10% more defensive production.  They see what we see. It doesn't always have to be the offense to make a play at the end of a KC game.  Maybe the defense can make a play.  

 

The media and fans were right to rip the WR corps off last summer - Beane almost admitted it in yesterday's interview by saying people had a point. The offense struggled until Cooper came in; the Ravens and Texans games were awful. Even though he didn't do much himself, he gave defenses something else to think about, a different challenge. For now, there is a lot of faith in Kincaid and Coleman returning to pre-injury form and very little in support if they don't.

[aristocrat]

29 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Cuz those WRs could play defense and avoid the Chiefs from scoring 27 points in 2023 and 32 in 2024? Clamor all you want be Beane's point was that our offense was the league's best at scoring points last year and even if we improved it we very wouldn't have made a difference because our defense wasn't up to par.

It would make a difference if we scored 35 points