2025 NFL Draft - Day 3 Debrief

[davefan66]

Thanks for the write up!

 

Draft definitely was defensive driven. I am happy to see depth on the line for guys we can mold, instead of the one year contracts we’ve done for the last few years.  And obviously they wanted to bolster the CB room.  
 

Interested in seeing how Hawes is as a pro. Looks to be 3rd TE and extra blocker.

 

Imagine next year will be the offense draft. Feel we could have addressed receiver better, but figure Beane has a plan.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think their  thought process is that we have our 4 WRS all locked up beyond this year. Samuel, Coleman, Shakir, and Palmer are basically all locks to make the roster for various reasons and the # 5 WR that they have kept over their tenure has been a STs guy.  Well look no further than Shavers who has been here the last couple of years developing and his specialty is Special teams play. Then Shenault is here as a possible returner and 6th guy if they want to go in that Direction. 
 

In their minds they probably only had a PS opening available for a WR this year and that’s probably where Prather will end up unless he absolutely explodes onto the scene. 
 

I’m not saying it’s the right strategy I just am trying to get into their line of thinking on why

 

So, the opposite of investing a lot in the DL, allowing for competition, and letting the cream rise to the top.

 

They just don't value the position sufficiently, imo. They count on Josh Allen to elevate the room, where I think they should add plus talent at the position and make it easier on Josh, and also more likely that a clutch play will happen in a must have situation in the playoffs.

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

So, the opposite of investing a lot in the DL, allowing for competition, and letting the cream rise to the top.

 

They just don't value the position sufficiently, imo. They count on Josh Allen to elevate the room, where I think they should add plus talent at the position and make it easier on Josh, and also more likely that a clutch play will happen in a must have situation in the playoffs.

I mean I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I just think that they believe the offense is set this year and the defense needed a complete overhaul and they were right in that sense. I always thought they would take 3 DL and 2 DBs in this class and I was wrong they took 3 so I understand the line of thinking that those two groupings needed an overhaul and they used the strength of the draft to hopefully achieve that goal. 
 

They need Coleman to take a leap and they need Kincaid to get back to form of his rookie season if not better or they’ll be spending another 3rd rounder week 6 for a weapon 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, gonzo1105 said:

I mean I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I just think that they believe the offense is set this year and the defense needed a complete overhaul and they were right in that sense. I always thought they would take 3 DL and 2 DBs in this class and I was wrong they took 3 so I understand the line of thinking that those two groupings needed an overhaul and they used the strength of the draft to hopefully achieve that goal. 
 

They need Coleman to take a leap and they need Kincaid to get back to form of his rookie season if not better or they’ll be spending another 3rd rounder week 6 for a weapon 

They believe their picks of Kincaid and Coleman are going to make some big leap in play.  We shouldn't have to wait imho.  Look at what other WR could have done for us.  BTJ is a guy we could have traded up for.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I mean I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I just think that they believe the offense is set this year and the defense needed a complete overhaul and they were right in that sense. I always thought they would take 3 DL and 2 DBs in this class and I was wrong they took 3 so I understand the line of thinking that those two groupings needed an overhaul and they used the strength of the draft to hopefully achieve that goal. 
 

They need Coleman to take a leap and they need Kincaid to get back to form of his rookie season if not better or they’ll be spending another 3rd rounder week 6 for a weapon 

Yes, I agree that they concluded the defense needed an overhaul, and they were correct about that. Let's hope there is some strategic change in the schema to go along with the personnel adds. Surely it would help if Coleman makes a leap and Kincaid returns to form. They still need that outside field stretcher. I just think they paid a lot for Palmer, and I'll be surprised if he is more than adequate at best.

[Bruffalo]

48 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

They believe their picks of Kincaid and Coleman are going to make some big leap in play.  We shouldn't have to wait imho.  Look at what other WR could have done for us.  BTJ is a guy we could have traded up for.

 

 

Pretty surprising (to me anyways) considering how McDermott and Beane talked about Coleman in the end of year pressers.

 

I'd love it to see a leap forward and be proven wrong, but I think it's not the best strategy to count on it.

[transient]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

I'm not as smart as Beane but I also don't see the point of not having a speedster on the roster who you can use, at the least, as a gadget guy and to help keep the defense honest. I like the idea of having a guy you can use on jet sweeps like KC, and who you can just tell to tear down the field a few times a game and let Josh unleash one deep. 

If you’re only talking about doing it 3-5x per game, Hairston did play WR in HS… just sayin’

[boater]

No running back was selected. I kind of expected one in the  4th or 5th.

 

And poor Joe Brady. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I mean I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I just think that they believe the offense is set this year and the defense needed a complete overhaul and they were right in that sense. I always thought they would take 3 DL and 2 DBs in this class and I was wrong they took 3 so I understand the line of thinking that those two groupings needed an overhaul and they used the strength of the draft to hopefully achieve that goal. 
 

They need Coleman to take a leap and they need Kincaid to get back to form of his rookie season if not better or they’ll be spending another 3rd rounder week 6 for a weapon 

But your theory does not explain why they did so much work on receivers leading up to the draft.  

[Commish]

I don't understand how there can be such a wide and polarized opinion about Deone Walker. Gunner Bill and Joe Marino - both of whom seem very well-informed - want nothing to do with the guy, and yet the Bills scouts and management obviously see it very differently. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, Commish said:

I don't understand how there can be such a wide and polarized opinion about Deone Walker. Gunner Bill and Joe Marino - both of whom seem very well-informed - want nothing to do with the guy, and yet the Bills scouts and management obviously see it very differently. 

Well I assume that the Bills feel like they can coach out his deficiencies, and this is a pure upside play. 
 

Thats the part of this that knowledgeable scouting community cannot possibly know. They won’t know what kind of worker the guy is in practice, they can’t know the details of the injury situation. They won’t know what the plan is for fixing the issues in his game. So to me that’s the missing piece. 
 

Walker is a very rare body type and typically guys like this haven’t been super successful. Doesn’t mean he can’t. To me this is in some ways similar to taking a shot on a Josh Allen…Walker has huge upside if he hits and I have no problem with that in the 4th round. A fire hydrant can’t move nose tackle is a dime a dozen. A guy who is 6-7, 335 with those movement skills is not. Landon Jackson is a similar upside play as is Maxwell Hairston, TJ Sanders and so was Keon Coleman and Cole Bishop. They all have high upside traits. 

 

This team is devoid of high upside talent. If this class fails, we are in trouble, but if it hits, it probably goes a long way towards possibly helping us win a Super Bowl. 
 

This is a high ceiling shot over a low floor shot. So to me the variance in opinions on Walker are similar to the reasons the scouting community was so split on Josh Allen. It’s risk reward. 

Edited yesterday at 06:01 PM by MrEpsYtown

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it is a bit the result of Brandon not having a scouting background. He doesn't have a "type" at positions the way guys who have been around it for years have. Their type at DB is dictated by McDermott's specifications. They have developed a type at OL only since Kromer arrived. Tremaine Edmunds was Leslie Frazier's type of middle linebacker. When Dennison was here they wanted big bodied receivers. Then Dabes wanted shiftier route runners. Then Dorsey wanted guys to run down the field. Brady wants YAC guys. 

 

I get it. You have to get players that fit what your coaches want. And Beane is good at that and because he is good at that is probably why he has so few true busts. But how much does his own evaluation skill show on the roster? I'm not sure much. He is a good leader, a good strategic roster builder. But I don't think on pure talent evaluation he is a top 15 GM.  It is the other qualities that make him a top 10 guy overall.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a veteran HC paired with, admittedly an admin-type GM, have some awareness about what to look for on both sides of the ball.  If their lack of knowledge on WRs inhibits them from selecting them that's a huge red flag because it suggests they don't want to or don't care to learn after nearly a decade paired together.  

 

Furthermore, if I'm Joe Brady I walk away from this off-season a lot less enthused considering they essentially ignored the offense and basically said we're good there.  It's a good thing they have Josh Allen because I'm not sure a prospective OC would want to work for McD and Beane knowing their voice is called upon when the HC and GM feel it's right.

[LEBills]

2 hours ago, Commish said:

I don't understand how there can be such a wide and polarized opinion about Deone Walker. Gunner Bill and Joe Marino - both of whom seem very well-informed - want nothing to do with the guy, and yet the Bills scouts and management obviously see it very differently. 

It’s because of his 2023 season and senior bowl. He put up 7.5 sacks in the SEC in 2023 and then had several dominant reps as a pass rusher in the Senior Bowl practices. Admittedly, when he was healthy he had a nice spin move and was light on his feet to create havoc as a pass rusher.

 

But what he does - playing high, having a light base, etc - does not bode well for players usually, especially against the run. So in the 4th round, they took a gamble on him being an exception.

 

But a big guy with poor athleticism and a back injury history will likely make his career inconsistent at best. As Marino said, would be very happy to be wrong.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think their  thought process is that we have our 4 WRS all locked up beyond this year. Samuel, Coleman, Shakir, and Palmer are basically all locks to make the roster for various reasons and the # 5 WR that they have kept over their tenure has been a STs guy.  Well look no further than Shavers who has been here the last couple of years developing and his specialty is Special teams play. Then Shenault is here as a possible returner and 6th guy if they want to go in that Direction. 
 

In their minds they probably only had a PS opening available for a WR this year and that’s probably where Prather will end up unless he absolutely explodes onto the scene. 
 

I’m not saying it’s the right strategy I just am trying to get into their line of thinking on why

 

 

I just contrast that strategy with Tampa Bay. Who priort to Thursday evening were on an equal streak with the Bills of no Wide Receivers in round 1 since we picked Sammy and they picked Mike (nope, still not over it). They have Evans, they have Godwin, they have Sterling Shephard as a vet who has done some things in this league and they have Jalen McMillan who had a good rookie year. Yet they still didn't stand pat when Egbuka fell to them. Now maybe if Egbuka falls to us we take him too (not convinced, but maybe). Just feels like one team was going "we've got four serviceable guys" and one was saying "we still need more".

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just contrast that strategy with Tampa Bay. Who priort to Thursday evening were on an equal streak with the Bills of no Wide Receivers in round 1 since we picked Sammy and they picked Mike (nope, still not over it). They have Evans, they have Godwin, they have Sterling Shephard as a vet who has done some things in this league and they have Jalen McMillan who had a good rookie year. Yet they still didn't stand pat when Egbuka fell to them. Now maybe if Egbuka falls to us we take him too (not convinced, but maybe). Just feels like one team was going "we've got four serviceable guys" and one was saying "we still need more".

Godwin/Evans have missed significant time recently. Always good to have a stable.

 

This is still the NFL.

 

Shakir gets dinged up early and we could be in for a LONG year

[Logic]

As for all the receiver talk:

I just got done watching Beane's post draft presser.

He is ADAMANT that they went "Best player available" until the last couple rounds. He said he would not have been able to sit and tell the press prior to the draft that they wouldn't be taking a receiver before the 7th round. He said they had receivers on the board they liked, but every time their pick came up, they had a player (or players) ranked higher at other positions, and they went with their highest ranked players.

Now obviously GMs say a lot of things, and a certain amount of it is "coach speak". But watching Brandon's presser and doing my best body language detective work, he seems to be telling the truth.

If you believe Brandon Beane, then I'm left with this sentiment: Just about everyone and their brother has said this offseason that drafting BPA is the way you build a good roster, and drafting for need is how you miss out on good players. I feel like everyone espouses this opinion UNTIL the GM doesn't draft a player at a position they're keen on, then all of a sudden it goes out the window. What I see a lot of people vouching for, essentially, is eschewing BPA and ignoring player value and taking a receiver simply because we "need" one.

Now of course everyone's rankings and preferences differ, and maybe some of you had receivers ranked higher than some of the players the Bills took. But if you believe what Beane is saying, he did not ignore value just to take a receiver if he had a player ranked higher elsewhere, and he stuck to the board and took BPA, which is what everyone repeatedly begs him to do all offseason.

If you want to argue with the way Beane and his staff value (or don't value) certain positions, what they prioritize positionally, etc, etc, then I won't fault you. But drafting a receiver just to draft a receiver is exactly what we all ask Beane NOT to do.

 

[Udubalum07]

I see this draft as a B or C draft. Certainly that could change if the pass rush they are swinging for pans out. If they are able to be somewhat like Philly with the way they were able to disrupt the QB this becomes an A+. To me that would mean a Superbowl. I like the direction, but will see if they had made the right evaluations.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

As for all the receiver talk:

I just got done watching Beane's post draft presser.

He is ADAMANT that they went "Best player available" until the last couple rounds. He said he would not have been able to sit and tell the press prior to the draft that they wouldn't be taking a receiver before the 7th round. He said they had receivers on the board they liked, but every time their pick came up, they had a player (or players) ranked higher at other positions, and they went with their highest ranked players.

Now obviously GMs say a lot of things, and a certain amount of it is "coach speak". But watching Brandon's presser and doing my best body language detective work, he seems to be telling the truth.

If you believe Brandon Beane, then I'm left with this sentiment: Just about everyone and their brother has said this offseason that drafting BPA is the way you build a good roster, and drafting for need is how you miss out on good players. I feel like everyone espouses this opinion UNTIL the GM doesn't draft a player at a position they're keen on, then all of a sudden it goes out the window. What I see a lot of people vouching for, essentially, is eschewing BPA and ignoring player value and taking a receiver simply because we "need" one.

Now of course everyone's rankings and preferences differ, and maybe some of you had receivers ranked higher than some of the players the Bills took. But if you believe what Beane is saying, he did not ignore value just to take a receiver if he had a player ranked higher elsewhere, and he stuck to the board and took BPA, which is what everyone repeatedly begs him to do all offseason.

If you want to argue with the way Beane and his staff value (or don't value) certain positions, what they prioritize positionally, etc, etc, then I won't fault you. But drafting a receiver just to draft a receiver is exactly what we all ask Beane NOT to do.

 

The Bills have just gotten so lucky that they desperately needed DL players and CBs and they were all coincidentally BPA when they picked. 
 

Beano must have a shamrock or three.

[Logic]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Bills have just gotten so lucky that they desperately needed DL players and CBs and they were all coincidentally BPA when they picked. 
 

Beano must have a shamrock or three.

In fairness, DL was universally lauded as the strength of this draft class, whereas it was not a particularly strong or deep WR class.

Now if you want to talk about LAST year's draft class, where WR was SUPER deep and the Bills didn't take advantage on day two or three, I'd be more than happy to. I'm still angry about it.

[gonzo1105]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just contrast that strategy with Tampa Bay. Who priort to Thursday evening were on an equal streak with the Bills of no Wide Receivers in round 1 since we picked Sammy and they picked Mike (nope, still not over it). They have Evans, they have Godwin, they have Sterling Shephard as a vet who has done some things in this league and they have Jalen McMillan who had a good rookie year. Yet they still didn't stand pat when Egbuka fell to them. Now maybe if Egbuka falls to us we take him too (not convinced, but maybe). Just feels like one team was going "we've got four serviceable guys" and one was saying "we still need more".

Totally get it but at the same time the Bucs defense is absolute garbage and the only reason they win that division every year is because the other teams are awful. It’s not an indication how good the Bucs are 

16 minutes ago, Logic said:

In fairness, DL was universally lauded as the strength of this draft class, whereas it was not a particularly strong or deep WR class.

Now if you want to talk about LAST year's draft class, where WR was SUPER deep and the Bills didn't take advantage on day two or three, I'd be more than happy to. I'm still angry about it.

Everybody keeps talking about last years class because it was perceived as a great class but as it pertains to difference makers even in that strong class no one from the 3rd round on made really any type of contribution in their rookie year . Maybe future  years will be different for that class but people acting as if if KeAndre Smith or others were going to come in and get reps in their rookie year as a difference making vertical threat are mistaken