2025 NFL Draft - Day 3 Debrief

[GunnerBill]

It's a wrap from Green Bay (I think my least favourite draft venue since it went on the road from a tv fan perspective, interested to hear from those who were there) and there is a lot to get to. So let's crack on!

 

The Bills picks...

The Bills started day three with seven picks and ended up making six selections. Let's start with the trade up in round 4. The Bears and the Bills have played the hokey cokey with pick #109 for full 12 months. Originally Chicago's 4th was traded to Buffalo last year in order to get the Bills' 2024 5th rounder - a pick they used to select Austin Booker. Then on Friday night Brandon Beane flipped it back to them as part of the trade up to land TJ Sanders. Only to re-acquire the pick yesterday in order to move up. And as with yesterday's trade up with the Bears, it was Beane who "won" the trade based on the value charts. By the Jimmy Johnson chart he acquired 76 points at a cost of only 63.8. By the Rich Hill chart he acquired 30 points for a cost of 27. But that was pretty much where the good news ended for me. I'd speculated in yesterday's de-brief about trading up into the top few picks of round 4 for an outside speed receiver and while Dont'e Thornton had gone off the board literally the pick prior to the Raiders both Jalen Royals and Tory Horton, guys we know the Bills had some level of interest in given they had visited, were still sitting there. Instead Brandon Beane selected Deone Walker, the massive defensive tackle from Kentucky. I really dislike the pick. I know he played with a partially broken back in 2024 and yes, the 2023 tape is better... but that's not hard because based on the 2024 tape alone he was undraftable in my opinion. Someone brought Jordan Phillips (the one who played for us, not the one in this draft) up to Beane in the presser as a comp and I see it. They are both really tall guys, who are heavy but carry most of that weight in their gut rather than in their legs and their backside and it means that despite their weight they don't anchor very well, have a tendency to topple forward and as such struggle to really be the natural 1Tech run stuffers that they might first appear just looking at their stats. So while I'm willing forgive Walker a little bit for his inconsistent pad level in 2024 (bending with a broken back is, I imagine, rather painful) I think the technical flaws go beyond that. I hope to goodness I am wrong and he can replace Daquan Jones (who I think is washed) and give us at least four years of cost controlled strong play from the 1Tech spot. It might at least stop Beane throwing more free agency dollars at the position if he has Walker, Sanders and DeWayne Carter in the bullpen at defensive tackle.... but I'm worried this is a guy who will never nail down a starting spot.

 

Onto round 5 and if round 4 was frustrating, round 5 was perplexing. I haven't watched a ton of either player so not going to pretend to be an expert but in isolation both fill roles that I thought were likely depth needs on day three. Jordan Hancock might have the size of an outside corner but he is a nickel and has played some safety. Brandon Beane said that the Bills will train him at both and he essentially provides competition (and hopefully an upgrade) over Cam Lewis in that jack of all trades DB spot. He started 14 games this past season for the national champions Ohio State and that experience is valuable. Then Jackson Hawes is a candidate for the third tight end role vacated by Quintin Morris and he brings a skillset the Bills haven't had much in recent years as a true blocking tight end. Smart kid, started at Yale before transferring to Georgia Tech, will have a niche role on the 53, could even be an option to play some full back too if they don't want to keep a designated full back in Reggie Gilliam (though I expect they still will) and will be a core special teamer. Again, in isolation, I get it. But the glaring need for an outside speed receiver was still there. By both the Jimmy Johnson chart and the Rich Hill chart the Bills packaging those two late 5th rounders together would have got them back into the end of round 4. Now maybe it wouldn't have got them high enough for Jalen Royals who went at #133 to the Chiefs (exactly one pick after our original 4th)... but their first 5th and their late 6th would have been enough to get them up to a spot ahead of where Tory Horton (outside receiver, 4.41 speed) and KeAndre Lambert-Smith (outside/inside flex receiver, 4.37 speed) BOTH players who the Bills had in on 30 visits, were selected by the Seahwaks and the Chargers respectively. I just can't see a world in which competition for the Cam Lewis job and backfilling the TE3 role are more important than adding downfield vertical speed. I get it, neither Horton nor Lambert-Smith were likely more than package players as rookies. But man... the Bills lack of true vertical speed threat on offense was a problem at times last year and it will be a problem again. We are going to see a lot more stacked boxes and teams trying to take away the quick game and the inside game until we prove we can threaten you deep outside. 

 

Round 6 was my favourite round yesterday. Dorian Strong, the outside corner from Virginia Tech was excellent value at the spot. He was my 6th best remaining player at the time they selected him and I think he has the ability to become a starting outside CB2 in the NFL. He needs to sharpen up his transitions a bit in zone but he is competitive at the catch point and has good instincts. I get that by this stage corner was not a need... but honestly the receiver well had run dry by this point and the value here was hard to argue with. It suggests to me that Dane Jackson has gone within a week from "presumed starter" at CB2 to "battling for a roster spot" given the logjam created by Benford, Hairston, White.... he is at best in a battle with Strong for the final spot outside. And then at #206 the Bills took my guy Chase Lundt out of UConn! I featured him in my sleeper thread, and his tape is a really fun watch. He is 6ft7, but with shorter than ideal arms for his size. What is noteworthy is how well he bends for one so tall, and his foot speed is really good. Love him particularly as a run blocker and he has some outside/inside flex. I had him graded as a late 4th/early 5th so the value at the end of round 6 was excellent. People have questioned if he can make the roster given the depth we have on the oline. The five starters from last year are obviously locks. I think Tylan Grable is too as their swing tackle and Alec Anderson as their main IOL depth and extra lineman in big personnel. Then they have Ryan VanDemark and last year's 5th rounder Sedrick Van Pran-Granger. But Anderson and VanDemark are on one year RFA deals and will be unrestricted free agents next spring, at which point David Edwards will be out of contract too. So having a talented, versatile guy like Lundt in the hut ready to take one of those depth spots makes sense to me. Unless he tears it up in pre-season I'd expect they can sneak him onto the practice squad. 

 

Finally in round 7 Brandon Beane gave the people what they wanted.... a receiver!! I have seen precisely nothing of Kaden Prather. His RAS profile suggests he has a combination of size and some long speed, though his 10 and 20 yard splits coupled with his jumps indicate he isn't the most explosive, quick twitch athlete. His contested catch win rate last year per PFF was a pretty anemic 35% and he feels to all extents and purposes like a practice squad guy at best. 

 

After a really good first two days of this draft where I think the Bills got three good football players, at positions of need while still following the board and extracting value day three was more of an adventure and while game changing receivers early in this class were in short supply, for them to not even make a serious effort on the final day to bring in a developmental guy with the type of profile we are missing... I don't know. Just leaves me back thinking this GM, who came from a place in Carolina where they were famous for not taking prioritising receivers and almost never taking them early (and the one time they did ending up with a big slow guy that couldn't separate), is never going to prioritise them. And for all the credit I give him for what he did early in this draft it does concern me for the long term maximisation of Josh Allen's talent.

 

The UDFAs

The only name I recognise of the guys this Bills have brought in is Stehen Gosnell, the receiver out of Virginia Tech, who is a bigger bodied outside guy who plays with some nuance but I just don't think has the athletic profile to be effective at the pro level. I think this is going to be a very hard roster for any UDFA to crack. 

 

Other notable moves

The most notable move was the Browns drafting Dillon Gabriel out of Oregon and then coming back a round later and finally taking Shedeur Sanders off the board. I'm not going to get into body language analysis but the Cleveland broom cupboard did not look happy and it would not shock anyone if this was another Jimmy Haslam brainwave to file away with Johnny Manziel. I do feel a bit for Shedeur. Whatever you do or don't think of him and his dad, he is a better Quarterback than a number of guys who went ahead of him and in an NFL that prides itself on supposedly being a true meritocracy it does make you feel some sympathy for the kid. I think it is VERY possible he is the best Quarterback on the Browns roster in 2025. And if that is the case that could mess with the plan it looked like GM Andrew Berry was trying to execute to target a Quarterback in round 1 next year. I thought it was another good day from the Patriots. I like Craig Woodson, the safety they took out of Cal, though it felt slightly too early for him but they then snagged Josh Farmer late in round 4 who I had a 3rd round grade on and Bradyn Swinson in round 5 who I had a late 2nd round grade on. I'm not overreacting and declaring them back, but this was the best Patriots draft in well over a decade and if in 2 or 3 years they are back to being a competitive team I think this class will likely be looked upon as foundational. I also liked Carolina's draft. Tet McMillan gives them a true #1 receiver, they took two of my favourite edge guys on day two and then came back yesterday and snagged Lathan Ransom the safety out of Ohio State, who will have a chance to start, and Cam Jackson the massive defensive tackle from Florida who was one of my favourite day three 1Tech ideas. I'll give a shout out for the Lions too because I hammered them a bit yesterday.... but Miles Frazier, the guard they took in round 5 is a stud (and will end up outplaying the one they traded up for in round 2, just wait and see), Ahmed Hassanein who they took in round 6 was another of my sleepers and as the only edge they drafted he is going to have a proper shot to make that roster... he has the non-stop motor that Dan Campbell loves and then Dominic Lovett who they took late was only a depth receiver for Georgia but he is a smooth route runner who can develop into a reliable possession receiver as a WR4 or WR5.

 

And then there were EIGHT...

Eight guys left on Gunner's board with draftable grades by the end of round 7, which is at the higher end of my average. Some of them are really surprising to me. Zy Alexander I really like even though I know he is not a plus athlete, and Joshua Gray is an older prospect but is plenty athletic and his tape is decent. Anyway, here is my usual breakdown of where they have ended up as UDFAs

 

1. Isaiah Bond^, WR, Texas - as yet unsigned and presume that will be the case at least as long as his criminal charge progresses.

2. Zy Alexander, CB, LSU - SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

3. Cobee Bryant, CB, Kansas - ATLANTA FALCONS

4. Joshua Gray, IOL, Oregon State - ATLANTA FALCONS

5. Jared Ivey, DE, Ole Miss - SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

6. Logan Brown, OT, Kansas - MINNESOTA VIKINGS

7. Sebastian Castro, S, Iowa - PITTSBURGH STEELERS

8. Xavier Restrepo, WR, Miami - TENNESSEE TITANS

 

There were also two players highlighted in my 'sleeper' thread who I hadn't done enough on to grade for the board who went undrafted:

 

N/R. Andrew Armstrong, WR, Arkansas - MIAMI DOLPHINS

N/R. Jalin Conyers, TE, Texas Tech - MIAMI DOLPHINS

 

I wish all those guys well in their future NFL careers, even the two who have gone to Miami! My undrafted guys have a pretty good record of making teams. 4/5 last year made the 53. I think the two offensive linemen and the two corners have the best chance this year and as always I'll check in on them in new thread next January.

 

And just like that.... it's over for another year. I get some free time back, which will be nice. No more treadmill runs while also trying to watch draft prospects, no more "I'll just watch a on more guy" at 11pm and the next time you look it's 2.30am, no more Sunday morning coffee while writing up sub package linebacker evaluations. How will I cope?  

Thanks for all the engagement on the board, as ever, so until next year, Gunner OUT! 

Edited 19 hours ago by GunnerBill

[LEBills]

Yea, I liked each player selected through the sixth round in a vacuum and see their roles as unseating or replacing some of the worst role players on the team. But when you look at the draft as a whole, it’s a bit more meh. The upside you hope to see in the middle rounds seems lacking (except for Strong who I was quite high on too). And I do think that is partly due to the double dip at DT instead of trying for an explosive offensive player.

 

Id say player for player this is one of the best drafts Beane has had. But as a whole, it’s the swings we didn’t take that make the draft feel like it is missing something.

[FireChans]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

hokey cokey

It’s called the Hokey Pokey round these parts.

 

Excellent work as always 

[Bruffalo]

I’m not a fan of the day three strategy, although the individual players are fine.

 

Overall I think I sum up the draft like this: It better work, otherwise Beane and McD are going to look pretty silly.

 

If we get the same playoff result with the defense underperforming it’ll be a massive inditement on McD and Beane. 

[Westside]

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It's a wrap from Green Bay (I think my least favourite draft venue since it went on the road from a tv fan perspective, interested to hear from those who were there) and there is a lot to get to. So let's crack on!

 

The Bills picks...

The Bills started day three with seven picks and ended up making six selections. Let's start with the trade up in round 4. The Bears and the Bills have played the hokey cokey with pick #109 for full 12 months. Originally Chicago's 4th was traded to Buffalo last year in order to get the Bills' 2024 5th rounder - a pick they used to select Austin Booker. Then on Friday night Brandon Beane flipped it back to them as part of the trade up to land TJ Sanders. Only to re-acquire the pick yesterday in order to move up. And as with yesterday's trade up with the Bears, it was Beane who "won" the trade based on the value charts. By the Jimmy Johnson chart he acquired 76 points at a cost of only 63.8. By the Rich Hill chart he acquired 30 points for a cost of 27. But that was pretty much where the good news ended for me. I'd speculated in yesterday's de-brief about trading up into the top few picks of round 4 for an outside speed receiver and while Dont'e Thornton had gone off the board literally the pick prior to the Raiders both Jalen Royals and Tory Horton, guys we know the Bills had some level of interest in given they had visited, were still sitting there. Instead Brandon Beane selected Deone Walker, the massive defensive tackle from Kentucky. I really dislike the pick. I know he played with a partially broken back in 2024 and yes, the 2023 tape is better... but that's not hard because based on the 2024 tape alone he was undraftable in my opinion. Someone brought Jordan Phillips (the one who played for us, not the one in this draft) up to Beane in the presser as a comp and I see it. They are both really tall guys, who are heavy but carry most of that weight in their gut rather than in their legs and their backside and it means that despite their weight they don't anchor very well, have a tendency to topple forward and as such struggle to really be the natural 1Tech run stuffers that they might first appear just looking at their stats. So while I'm willing forgive Walker a little bit for his inconsistent pad level in 2024 (bending with a broken back is, I imagine, rather painful) I think the technical flaws go beyond that. I hope to goodness I am wrong and he can replace Daquan Jones (who I think is washed) and give us at least four years of cost controlled strong play from the 1Tech spot. It might at least stop Beane throwing more free agency dollars at the position if he has Walker, Sanders and DeWayne Carter in the bullpen at defensive tackle.... but I'm worried this is a guy who will never nail down a starting spot.

 

Onto round 5 and if round 4 was frustrating, round 5 was perplexing. I haven't watched a ton of either player so not going to pretend to be an expert but in isolation both fill roles that I thought were likely depth needs on day three. Jordan Hancock might have the size of an outside corner but he is a nickel and has played some safety. Brandon Beane said that the Bills will train him at both and he essentially provides competition (and hopefully an upgrade) over Cam Lewis in that jack of all trades DB spot. He started 14 games this past season for the national champions Ohio State and that experience is valuable. Then Jackson Hawes is a candidate for the third tight end role vacated by Quintin Morris and he brings a skillset the Bills haven't had much in recent years as a true blocking tight end. Smart kid, started at Yale before transferring to Georgia Tech, will have a niche role on the 53, could even be an option to play some full back too if they don't want to keep a designated full back in Reggie Gilliam (though I expect they still will) and will be a core special teamer. Again, in isolation, I get it. But the glaring need for an outside speed receiver was still there. By both the Jimmy Johnson chart and the Rich Hill chart the Bills packaging those two late 5th rounders together would have got them back into the end of round 4. Now maybe it wouldn't have got them high enough for Jalen Royals who went at #133 to the Chiefs (exactly one pick after our original 4th)... but their first 5th and their late 6th would have been enough to get them up to a spot ahead of where Tory Horton (outside receiver, 4.41 speed) and KeAndre Lambert-Smith (outside/inside flex receiver, 4.37 speed) BOTH players who the Bills had in on 30 visits, were selected by the Seahwaks and the Chargers respectively. I just can't see a world in which competition for the Cam Lewis job and backfilling the TE3 role are more important than adding downfield vertical speed. I get it, neither Horton nor Lambert-Smith were likely more than package players as rookies. But man... the Bills lack of true vertical speed threat on offense was a problem at times last year and it will be a problem again. We are going to see a lot more stacked boxes and teams trying to take away the quick game and the inside game until we prove we can threaten you deep outside. 

 

Round 6 was my favourite round yesterday. Dorian Strong, the outside corner from Virginia Tech was excellent value at the spot. He was my 6th best remaining player at the time they selected him and I think he has the ability to become a starting outside CB2 in the NFL. He needs to sharpen up his transitions a bit in zone but he is competitive at the catch point and has good instincts. I get that by this stage corner was not a need... but honestly the receiver well had run dry by this point and the value here was hard to argue with. It suggests to me that Dane Jackson has gone within a week from "presumed starter" at CB2 to "battling for a roster spot" given the logjam created by Benford, Hairston, White.... he is at best in a battle with Strong for the final spot outside. And then at #206 the Bills took my guy Chase Lundt out of UConn! I featured him in my sleeper thread, and his tape is a really fun watch. He is 6ft7, but with shorter than ideal arms for his size. What is noteworthy is how well he bends for one so tall, and his foot speed is really good. Love him particularly as a run blocker and he has some outside/inside flex. I had him graded as a late 4th/early 5th so the value at the end of round 6 was excellent. People have questioned if he can make the roster given the depth we have on the oline. The five starters from last year are obviously locks. I think Tylan Grable is too as their swing tackle and Alec Anderson as their main IOL depth and extra lineman in big personnel. Then they have Ryan VanDemark and last year's 5th rounder Sedrick Van Pran-Granger. But Anderson and VanDemark are on one year RFA deals and will be unrestricted free agents next spring, at which point David Edwards will be out of contract too. So having a talented, versatile guy like Lundt in the hut ready to take one of those depth spots makes sense to me. Unless he tears it up in pre-season I'd expect they can sneak him onto the practice squad. 

 

Finally in round 7 Brandon Beane gave the people what they wanted.... a receiver!! I have seen precisely nothing of Kaden Prather. His RAS profile suggests he has a combination of size and some long speed, though his 10 and 20 yard splits coupled with his jumps indicate he isn't the most explosive, quick twitch athlete. His contested catch win rate last year per PFF was a pretty anemic 35% and he feels to all extents and purposes like a practice squad guy at best. 

 

After a really good first two days of this draft where I think the Bills got three good football players, at positions of need while still following the board and extracting value day three was more of an adventure and while game changing receivers early in this class were in short supply, for them to not even make a serious effort on the final day to bring in a developmental guy with the type of profile we are missing... I don't know. Just leaves me back thinking this GM, who came from a place in Carolina where they were famous for not taking prioritising receivers and almost never taking them early (and the one time they did ending up with a big slow guy that couldn't separate), is never going to prioritise them. And for all the credit I give him for what he did early in this draft it does concern me for the long term maximisation of Josh Allen's talent.

 

The UDFAs

The only name I recognise of the guys this Bills have brought in is Stehen Gosnell, the receiver out of Virginia Tech, who is a bigger bodied outside guy who plays with some nuance but I just don't think has the athletic profile to be effective at the pro level. I think this is going to be a very hard roster for any UDFA to crack. 

 

Other notable moves

The most notable move was the Browns drafting Dillon Gabriel out of Oregon and then coming back a round later and finally taking Shedeur Sanders off the board. I'm not going to get into body language analysis but the Cleveland broom cupboard did not look happy and it would not shock anyone if this was another Jimmy Haslam brainwave to file away with Johnny Manziel. I do feel a bit for Shedeur. Whatever you do or don't think of him and his dad, he is a better Quarterback than a number of guys who went ahead of him and in an NFL that prides itself on supposedly being a true meritocracy it does make you feel some sympathy for the kid. I think it is VERY possible he is the best Quarterback on the Browns roster in 2025. And if that is the case that could mess with the plan it looked like GM Andrew Berry was trying to execute to target a Quarterback in round 1 next year. I thought it was another good day from the Patriots. I like Craig Woodson, the safety they took out of Cal, though it felt slightly too early for him but they then snagged Josh Farmer late in round 4 who I had a 3rd round grade on and Bradyn Swinson in round 5 who I had a late 2nd round grade on. I'm not overreacting and declaring them back, but this was the best Patriots draft in well over a decade and if in 2 or 3 years they are back to being a competitive team I think this class will likely be looked upon as foundational. I also liked Carolina's draft. Tet McMillan gives them a true #1 receiver, they took two of my favourite edge guys on day two and then came back yesterday and snagged Lathan Ransom the safety out of Ohio State, who will have a chance to start, and Cam Jackson the massive defensive tackle from Florida who was one of my favourite day three 1Tech ideas. I'll give a shout out for the Lions too because I hammered them a bit yesterday.... but Miles Frazier, the guard they took in round 5 is a stud (and will end up outplaying the one they traded up for in round 2, just wait and see), Ahmed Hassanein who they took in round 6 was another of my sleepers and as the only edge they drafted he is going to have a proper shot to make that roster... he has the non-stop motor that Dan Campbell loves and then Dominic Lovett who they took late was only a depth receiver for Georgia but he is a smooth route runner who can develop into a reliable possession receiver as a WR4 or WR5.

 

And then there were EIGHT...

Eight guys left on Gunner's board with draftable grades by the end of round 7, which is at the higher end of my average. Some of them are really surprising to me. Zy Alexander I really like even though I know he is not a plus athlete, and Joshua Gray is an older prospect but is plenty athletic and his tape is decent. Anyway, here is my usual breakdown of where they have ended up as UDFAs

 

1. Isaiah Bond^, WR, Texas - as yet unsigned and presume that will be the case at least as long as his criminal charge progresses.

2. Zy Alexander, CB, LSU - SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

3. Cobee Bryant, CB, Kansas - ATLANTA FALCONS

4. Joshua Gray, IOL, Oregon State - ATLANTA FALCONS

5. Jared Ivey, DE, Ole Miss - as yet unsigned

6. Logan Brown, OT, Kansas - MINNESOTA VIKINGS

7. Sebastian Castro, S, Iowa - PITTSBURGH STEELERS

8. Xavier Restrepo, WR, Miami - TENNESSEE TITANS

 

There were also two players highlighted in my 'sleeper' thread who I hadn't done enough on to grade for the board who went undrafted:

 

N/R. Andrew Armstrong, WR, Arkansas - as yet unsigned

N/R. Jalin Conyers, TE, Texas Tech - as yet unsigned

 

I'll update later because I am sure Ivey, Conyers and Armstrong will get signed somewhere. I wish all those guys well in their future NFL careers. My undrafted guys have a pretty good record of making teams. 4/5 last year made the 53. I think the two offensive linemen and the two corners have the best chance this year and as always I'll check in on them in new thread next January.

 

And just like that.... it's over for another year. I get some free time back, which will be nice. No more treadmill runs while also trying to watch draft prospects, no more "I'll just watch a on more guy" at 11pm and the next time you look it's 2.30am, no more Sunday morning coffee while writing up sub package linebacker evaluations. How will I cope?  

Thanks for all the engagement on the board, as ever, so until next year, Gunner OUT! 

Thank you Gunner!!!! Great job this year as always!!!

[MrEpsYtown]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It’s called the Hokey Pokey round these parts.

 

Excellent work as always 

The hokey cokey was Michael Irvin’s favorite game.

[SoonerBillsFan]

@GunnerBill thank-you as always.  I heard Beane essentially justify not getting a WR because of how the Offense did last year, it pisses me off. 

 

WR with deep speed was a need going Into the draft and even McDermott said at the combine we must stretch the field vertically.  I don't know what to think anymore. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I just assume that they love Hancock. They knew they would miss out on whomever they did when they took him and they did it anyway. Hawes is not really exciting, but seems like the last TE and they valued that over some of the receivers. At the end of the day it seems like they just didn’t value the WRs in this draft the same way some of us do here. 

[RobbRiddick]

I'm not as smart as Beane but I also don't see the point of not having a speedster on the roster who you can use, at the least, as a gadget guy and to help keep the defense honest. I like the idea of having a guy you can use on jet sweeps like KC, and who you can just tell to tear down the field a few times a game and let Josh unleash one deep. 

[Shaw66]

Gunner - 

 

First, thanks for doing all this. It really is fabulous. I've gotten to the point where you are my online source for the draft!  Great job. 

 

Second, I know I'm a broken record, but I think we all have to put ourselves in the heads of Beane and McDermott.  I know we all have trouble seeing and understanding it but really, could it be any more clear that Beane and McDermott don't see the need for the wideout so many of us, including you, think is obvious?  For the second year in a row, the Bills have done essentially nothing to get a quality receiver with top-end speed. Last year they traded away from one (Worthy) to take Coleman. This year, nothing. 

 

I'm the same as everyone else. Last night, in the thread evaluating this year's draft, I didn't give Beane an A because, as much as I liked the draft, there was no offensive skill play in rounds one through four.  

 

Unless the Bills plan to convert Hairston to wideout, there will be no burner catching passes for the Bills again this season. 

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I just assume that they love Hancock. They knew they would miss out on whomever they did when they took him and they did it anyway. Hawes is not really exciting, but seems like the last TE and they valued that over some of the receivers. At the end of the day it seems like they just didn’t value the WRs in this draft the same way some of us do here. 

I continue to think it’s something different: they trust their own abilities to evaluate certain positions more than others.  They felt they needed to come out of this draft with players who will become starters and they KNOW they know how to evaluate DBs and blockers.  They also must like their ability to evaluate d linemen though their track record there isn’t quite as good (but perhaps they are leaning on the new coaches there).  They may feel far less confident in their ability to evaluate WRs and felt they couldn’t afford to lose out on the sure thing upgrades to the roster.

 

And honestly can anyone here explain what it is the Bills value and are looking for at the receiver position?   

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And honestly can anyone here explain what it is the Bills value and are looking for at the receiver position

They value run blocking and not being a locker room headache.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And honestly can anyone here explain what it is the Bills value and are looking for at the receiver position?   

 

I think it is a bit the result of Brandon not having a scouting background. He doesn't have a "type" at positions the way guys who have been around it for years have. Their type at DB is dictated by McDermott's specifications. They have developed a type at OL only since Kromer arrived. Tremaine Edmunds was Leslie Frazier's type of middle linebacker. When Dennison was here they wanted big bodied receivers. Then Dabes wanted shiftier route runners. Then Dorsey wanted guys to run down the field. Brady wants YAC guys. 

 

I get it. You have to get players that fit what your coaches want. And Beane is good at that and because he is good at that is probably why he has so few true busts. But how much does his own evaluation skill show on the roster? I'm not sure much. He is a good leader, a good strategic roster builder. But I don't think on pure talent evaluation he is a top 15 GM.  It is the other qualities that make him a top 10 guy overall.

[MrEpsYtown]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I continue to think it’s something different: they trust their own abilities to evaluate certain positions more than others.  They felt they needed to come out of this draft with players who will become starters and they KNOW they know how to evaluate DBs and blockers.  They also must like their ability to evaluate d linemen though their track record there isn’t quite as good (but perhaps they are leaning on the new coaches there).  They may feel far less confident in their ability to evaluate WRs and felt they couldn’t afford to lose out on the sure thing upgrades to the roster.

 

And honestly can anyone here explain what it is the Bills value and are looking for at the receiver position?   

I could see that. Their evaluations have been pretty inconsistent. 

I think their view is that they spent a ton on Samuel, Shakir, and Palmer and have a high second round draft pick in Coleman, and while he isn’t on the team, a third on Cooper. In their minds, they are going to try to make it work and in their minds they have spent enough resources on the position. They have essential one spot available at the position and that guy has to play special teams ala Hollins, that’s why I think Shavers has the upper hand. I suppose they did admit they want to add some deep speed, and have yet to do that, unless they feel they did so with Palmer. Sometimes they like to be the smartest guys in the room, and I do think they think they have spent enough on the position. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is a bit the result of Brandon not having a scouting background. He doesn't have a "type" at positions the way guys who have been around it for years have. Their type at DB is dictated by McDermott's specifications. They have developed a type at OL only since Kromer arrived. Tremaine Edmunds was Leslie Frazier's type of middle linebacker. When Dennison was here they wanted big bodied receivers. Then Dabes wanted shiftier route runners. Then Dorsey wanted guys to run down the field. Brady wants YAC guys. 

 

I get it. You have to get players that fit what your coaches want. And Beane is good at that and because he is good at that is probably why he has so few true busts. But how much does his own evaluation skill show on the roster? I'm not sure much. He is a good leader, a good strategic roster builder. But I don't think on pure talent evaluation he is a top 15 GM.  It is the other qualities that make him a top 10 guy overall.

Completely agree.  Beane is a CEO-style GM and I suspect he relies on his various lieutenants to advocate for their own individual silos.  You’ve got a defense-oriented HC who devotes most of his time to that side of the ball and you’ve got a green OC on offense.  They’ve basically admitted Allen was plugging for the Coleman pick last year and now this year is staying out of it - take that for what you will but it was notable that they spent a lot of time with Xavier Worthy and seemed to really like him and then went ahead and let their rival have him perhaps so they could draft Allen’s preferred guy.  And now Allen has promised to go golfing during the draft prep and let the scouts run the show.  My point is - yes, very unclear who Beane is even listening to on that side of the ball when it comes to draft strategy.

[MrEpsYtown]

And just to add, and sorry to turn your well thought out post into a WR thread…

 

I think it’s likely they wanted Isaiah Bond, he was probably their guy and it all blew up for them. He’s a perfect fit for the roster in terms of what they need. They seem to like to target specific guys in the draft and  they probably were not thrilled with the other WRs they met with.  JMO

Edited yesterday at 02:26 PM by MrEpsYtown

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

And just to add, and sorry to turn your well thought out post into a WR thread…

 

I think it’s likely they wanted Isaiah Bond, he was probably their guy and it all blew up for them. He’s a perfect fit for the roster in terms of what they need. They seem to like to target specific guys in the draft and  they probably were not thrilled with the other WRs they met with.  JMO

Plausible surmise.

[SoonerBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

And just to add, and sorry to turn your well thought out post into a WR thread…

 

I think it’s likely they wanted Isaiah Bond, he was probably their guy and it all blew up for them. He’s a perfect fit for the roster in terms of what they need. They seem to like to target specific guys in the draft and  they probably were not thrilled with the other WRs they met with.  JMO

Then adapt and make a change.  I think they get stuck on players,and when they aren't there, they don't know what to do.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Then adapt and make a change.  I think they get stuck on players,and when they aren't there, they don't know what to do.

Yeah I hear that. I think they just punted rather than invest in guys they didn’t love. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but that’s how it feels to me. I’m sure they liked some guys, Beane essentially told us he did not like them as much as the guys he took. Whether he was being genuine or not is another story. 

[gonzo1105]

I think their  thought process is that we have our 4 WRS all locked up beyond this year. Samuel, Coleman, Shakir, and Palmer are basically all locks to make the roster for various reasons and the # 5 WR that they have kept over their tenure has been a STs guy.  Well look no further than Shavers who has been here the last couple of years developing and his specialty is Special teams play. Then Shenault is here as a possible returner and 6th guy if they want to go in that Direction. 
 

In their minds they probably only had a PS opening available for a WR this year and that’s probably where Prather will end up unless he absolutely explodes onto the scene. 
 

I’m not saying it’s the right strategy I just am trying to get into their line of thinking on why