Is there an NFL team with a weaker WR group than the Bills?

[WNYFAN1]

On 4/27/2025 at 5:03 AM, Doc Brown said:

Chargers, Patriots, Panthers, Cowboys, Raiders, Jets, Titans, Seahawks, and maybe 49ers depending on Aiyuk's recovery.  That's off the top of my head.

 

Edited:  Forgot about the Browns and Giants.

After the draft I'm 100% taking the Raider's receiving options (if you include Bowers) over ours.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I would tend to agree. Are there then other parameters measured during the combine that should be given more importance than total 40 time?

I think that the 10 yard split but also the broad jump and vertical. Those are good tests of explosion. I like the 3 cone for quickness and cutting.

53 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Then measure explosion rather than total time over 40 yards.  I don’t think they’re the same.  If, in the end, the difference between two guys over 4 yards is a foot, I don’t see that as meaningful and wonder why so much emphasis is placed on the metric.

Totally fair. I don’t know where these guys ranked in vertical or broad. There is also the ability to use your hands to beat press that needs to be factored it. I don’t know how you measure that.

 

I think when it comes to the 40 time it really matters once you beat that press. If you beat a guy and are running vertically and he’s chasing, that’s where it matters. 4.30 and 4.46 become different there. The same goes for a corner like Hairston. If he gets beat by a 4.46 guy off the LOS, he still can recover (or at least easier than a 4.30 guy).

Edited 3 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[WNYFAN1]

13 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I get that the Bills played one more game. It still doesn't explain why, if the 2024 passing offense was so bad, then why did the Buffalo offense finish #2 overall in the NFL in points scored? BTW, in 2020, the offense was also #2 overall...with...no...#1...WR! Buncha scrubs did that?

 

All these seasons since 2020, the offense has not been the problem, as it's the defensive injuries that have let them down every year. 

It doesn't hurt that they had literally the best starting field position in the entire NFL last year.

[HaldimandBills]

Yeah....

 

Don't really care. Anyone with a brain sees that our defense was horrendous last year and couldn't get a 4 and out to save their lives and constantly gave up field positioning. 

 

So glad the defense was the main focal point of this draft and that they threw the entire kitchen sink at it. 

 

Casual fans will be whining all season about the 4.3 receiver threat. Fans who understand the sport of football will be thankful when our defense isn't a pathetic sieve come January.

 

Apparently having a top oline, great rb group, strong TE group, with a lot of room for internal improvement does not matter. Plenty of reasons to believe that Coleman and Kincaid make significant leaps this year.

 

My lasting memory wasn't the offense. It was Lamar and Mahomes having their way with our pathetic dline and slow secondary that stands out. 

Edited 4 hours ago by HaldimandBills

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that the 10 yard split but also the broad jump and vertical. Those are good tests of explosion. I like the 3 cone for quickness and cutting.

Totally fair. I don’t know where these guys ranked in vertical or broad. There is also the ability to use your hands to beat press that needs to be factored it. I don’t know how you measure that.

 

I think when it comes to the 40 time it really matters once you beat that press. If you’re past a guy and running vertically and he’s chasing, that’s where it matters. 4.30 and 4.46 become different there. The same goes for a corner like Hairston. If he gets beat by a 4.46 guy off the LOS, he still can recover (or at least easier than a 4.30 guy).

Good thoughts here.  Acceleration rate would be something I’d like to see.

[Gregg]

11 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:

Yeah....

 

Don't really care. Anyone with a brain sees that our defense was horrendous last year and couldn't get a 4 and out to save their lives and constantly gave up field positioning. 

 

So glad the defense was the main focal point of this draft and that they threw the entire kitchen sink at it. 

 

Casual fans will be whining all season about the 4.3 receiver threat. Fans who understand the sport of football will be thankful when our defense isn't a pathetic sieve come January.

 

Apparently having a top oline, great rb group, strong TE group, with a lot of room for internal improvement does not matter. Plenty of reasons to believe that Coleman and Kincaid make significant leaps this year.

 

My lasting memory wasn't the offense. It was Lamar and Mahomes having their way with our pathetic dline and slow secondary that stands out. 

 

The one play that stands out was in the playoff game against the Ravens. Remember the TD pass Lamar threw that cut the Bills lead to 2 points. He had 10 - 15 seconds to wait for a receiver to get open and not one Bill got within 5 feet of him. I am glad Beane focused on the defense. Despite not having a true #1 WR the Bills offense still managed to have a strong year. Everyone knows the Bills defense has been the main problem in them not getting to and possibly winning a Super Bowl.

Edited 4 hours ago by Gregg

[Areola Grande]

I just recently heard on a podcast that by the time the Bills got around to pick 240, they were like "oh we haven't taken a wide reciever," and took a guy. Obviously I dont' know a damn thing about him but I'm kind of confused. I was under the impression that we had to 'take the medicine' of the Diggs' dead cap hit and after a year of Josh Allen, league MVP, having Mack Hollins as his best downfield threat would be addressed the following year. Joshua Palmer is the answer? Taking some rando in rd 7 to save face because you last-second realize reporters will grill you with WR questions? Shakir is a shiftier Cole Beasley. Check. But how good would cole beasley be if he was the only guy? Keon ain't it. He's good for a few broken plays that make highlights a handful of times but he's not close to a wr1.

 

I also understand that WR was more diluted this year and not as elite. but tons of guys from mid rounds have made it big. you decided to go for a 3rd swing tackle that won't play and a project TE destined for a 3rd string/practice squad role

[C.Biscuit97]

I think the frustration is that with the Bills cap situation, the draft is the best and cheapest way to hit on a future stud receiver.  Our offense was really good last year but I do worry against top defenses, there isn’t enough speed to scare teams. As a result, they can bring more guys into the box which will result in more pressure on Allen and less run for the run game. We essentially have a fantasy waiver wire receiving core. I would have loved to see the cornerback draft approach to receivers. I love the guy from Stanford and he went in the 5th round. 
 

I think Baltimore has pretty weak WRs as well and they are doing Lamar a disservice as well. 

25 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The one play that stands out was in the playoff game against the Ravens. Remember the TD pass Lamar threw that cut the Bills lead to 2 points. He had 10 - 15 seconds to wait for a receiver to get open and not one Bill got within 5 feet of him. I am glad Beane focused on the defense. Despite not having a true #1 WR the Bills offense still managed to have a strong year. Everyone knows the Bills defense has been the main problem in them not getting to and possibly winning a Super Bowl.

Part of that is how you have to game plan against Lamar. You need to stay disciplined in your rush lanes and be patient. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

I fully expect the morning show tomorrow to pout about not landing that stud #1 WR in this God awful WR draft - as if trading for a Hopkins, Adams, Cooper, and others in season are just impossible.  
 

 

 

Everyone needs a reality check.  
 

This defense was BAD!  
 

Arizona week 1.  
Ravens week 4

Texans week 5. 
Dolphins week 9 

Chiefs week 11 - Hunt was their RB 1

49ers before CMC got hurt was shredding us 

Rams week 14

Lions week 15 

Ravens in playoffs - no Flowers

Chiefs in AFCCG.  

 

 

The offense carried the team and the defense in the other games played God awful offenses or teams with garbage at QB.  
 

This years schedule is just as tough.   

 

Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles, Bucs, Texans, The Patriots and Panthers will be better.  Steelers with Rodgers and those weapons who knows.  A healthy Tua and the Dolphins aren’t push overs.   
 

 

I would have used all 10 freaking picks on defense.  
 

Again, it’s largely bc I believe they are in position to trade for one if need be like we did with Cooper - who we could just bring back. 
 

The defenses we face are elite too.  A rookie WR in this class ain’t helping us vs Houston or the Ravens or even the Browns for that matter.  

1 - we completely overstate how bad the defense was. It’s was 11th in points and 17th in total yards. Of course, people wanted Frazier gone after multiple top 3 defense so the expectations are insane. 
 

2 - I have really grown to appreciate McDermott as a leader.  But you think a defensive minded coach won’t need essentially an entire draft to improve a defense. 
 

3 - Gabe Davis, a 4th round rookie from UCF, had 600 yards and 7 tds. He followed that up with 5 tds in his second year in the playoffs. You will never know if you don’t try to pick a guy 

 

these are first world problems. I just worry about defense studying what the Ravens and Chiefs did against our offense. And I hope I’m wrong but Josh Palmer, who wasn’t exactly a big difference maker with a good qb, isn’t enough of a move. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - we completely overstate how bad the defense was. It’s was 11th in points and 17th in total yards. Of course, people wanted Frazier gone after multiple top 3 defense so the expectations are insane. 
 

2 - I have really grown to appreciate McDermott as a leader.  But you think a defensive minded coach won’t need essentially an entire draft to improve a defense. 
 

3 - Gabe Davis, a 4th round rookie from UCF, had 600 yards and 7 tds. He followed that up with 5 tds in his second year in the playoffs. You will never know if you don’t try to pick a guy 

 

these are first world problems. I just worry about defense studying what the Ravens and Chiefs did against our offense. And I hope I’m wrong but Josh Palmer, who wasn’t exactly a big difference maker with a good qb, isn’t enough of a move. 

 

The overall stats for the defense might be decent but they have padded their stats against bad offenses with bad QBs. When they have faced good QBs with good offenses, they get exposed as a weak defense. It really shows in the playoffs. Mahomes, Jackson, and Burrow have been a nightmare for the Bills defense.

[GASabresIUFan]

What are people going to say when  2 of Shakir, Palmer, Kincaid and Coleman go over 1000 next season? Or if all 4 have over 800 yards next season?

Edited 3 hours ago by GASabresIUFan

[jtrip]

Any WR's Free Agents still avail or not drafted that would be a good fit?

[Warriorspikes51]

don't let Beane see this post 

[Goin Breakdown]

Wait until October. If we haven't added anyone else and separation is again a big issue, all the people calling you out for "crying" and such will be on board. Your concern is not wrong. 

[oldmanfan]

This is the third thread on this same topic currently.

[Magox]

19 hours ago, FireChans said:

Absolutely. Both the offense and defense played much better for the second round, and we got a lead and let playoff Lamar take us home lol.

 

The key to beating the Ravens in the playoffs is ALWAYS get a lead and make Lamar beat you. It was true in 2019 and true today. He’s much better today than he was in 19 but it’s still his Achilles heel.

So seeing as this is your ideal offseason, what is your take if we get 30 pieced by KC again? Just need to allocate more resources to defense?

 

You keep at it until you fix it.   If their defensive picks aren't panning out then I think its time to upgrade your scouting department and talent evaluators on that side of the ball.   

 

No successful organization in any vertical just decides to throw in the towel because what they had been doing in a certain sector wasn't working.  They look to continuously address it and if that means that management needs to be reassessed then so be it.    

 

As well as the Bills offense played last year in both the regular season and playoffs is about as good as you can reasonably hope for.  Josh Palmer will probably be a lateral replacement for what Amari did with the Bills this past season.  However, I think it is very reasonable to expect growth and better production from Kincaid and Coleman.  Samuels started to come along as the season progressed.   Barring significant injuries, I think you could see the Bills come close to replicating what they did last year and if they do that then it's an absolute home run.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Magox

[Nihilarian]

Bills fans need to relax and wait to see what the offense looks like with a healthy crew, along with more repetitions under their belts.

 

Besides, a healthy Cooper could be back, but with around 4 mill in cap space, I doubt it at this point.  Speaking of cap space...I highly doubt the Bills make any moves until they see what the offense looks like this year in training camp/preseason. Just saying, complaining about it won't change anything. 

 

A top-five balanced offense with a top-ten defense that can actually rush the passer this season, I'm excited! 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - we completely overstate how bad the defense was. It’s was 11th in points and 17th in total yards. Of course, people wanted Frazier gone after multiple top 3 defense so the expectations are insane. 
 

2 - I have really grown to appreciate McDermott as a leader.  But you think a defensive minded coach won’t need essentially an entire draft to improve a defense. 
 

3 - Gabe Davis, a 4th round rookie from UCF, had 600 yards and 7 tds. He followed that up with 5 tds in his second year in the playoffs. You will never know if you don’t try to pick a guy 

 

these are first world problems. I just worry about defense studying what the Ravens and Chiefs did against our offense. And I hope I’m wrong but Josh Palmer, who wasn’t exactly a big difference maker with a good qb, isn’t enough of a move. 

 

I think numbers were inflated by playing some really bad QBs.  
 

I want to walk into a game playing an elite offense and see our defense completely frustrate them instead of the other way around.  
 

We do it against Tua.  But his track record vs good teams is terrible.  
 

Maybe in 2025 it’s impossible to have an elite defense bc of the rules.  It’s possible.  
 

But the Chiefs and Eagles had the two best defenses imo and they made the SB.
 

And if there is anything I agree with regarding weapons it is - what if the league decides in 2025 - The Bills are not running on us.  7-8 guys in the box and man up those WRs and we look like we did against Baltimore and Houston early in the season.  
 

We are playing more great defenses this year than offenses.  
 

Those 2 games told Beane we needed a WR. 

 

So he can’t possibly feel like running back the same group hoping Keon and Kincaid make the jump and Palmer will replace Cooper is absolutely going to work.  Or Samuel will be healthy.  I hope this isn’t another miscalculation by the front office.  So they should have a plan B - trade.  
 

But I’m excited about what this defense can be.  
  

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Blitz

[KentuckyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, HaldimandBills said:

Yeah....

 

Don't really care. Anyone with a brain sees that our defense was horrendous last year and couldn't get a 4 and out to save their lives and constantly gave up field positioning. 

 

So glad the defense was the main focal point of this draft and that they threw the entire kitchen sink at it. 

 

Casual fans will be whining all season about the 4.3 receiver threat. Fans who understand the sport of football will be thankful when our defense isn't a pathetic sieve come January.

 

Apparently having a top oline, great rb group, strong TE group, with a lot of room for internal improvement does not matter. Plenty of reasons to believe that Coleman and Kincaid make significant leaps this year.

 

My lasting memory wasn't the offense. It was Lamar and Mahomes having their way with our pathetic dline and slow secondary that stands out. 

What makes you think the defense won't be a "pathetic sieve come January" when it's literally been that McDermott's entire tenure, no matter how many resources we pour into it?

[billsfan714]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

The overall stats for the defense might be decent but they have padded their stats against bad offenses with bad QBs. When they have faced good QBs with good offenses, they get exposed as a weak defense. It really shows in the playoffs. Mahomes, Jackson, and Burrow have been a nightmare for the Bills defense.

I would add in the games down the stretch against Stafford/Rams and Goff/Lions, the defense wasn't just bad, it was embarrassing.