Is there an NFL team with a weaker WR group than the Bills?

[Mikie2times]

18 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You do realize that most Day 3 picks at whatever position they play are lacking in at least one of these:  talent, experience or size.  Most of them will never be more than special teamers.  Those who do succeed usually take two or more seasons to become good pros, so a team has a "good pro" for only one or two years if that team doesn't re-sign the Day 3 picks who turn into their good pros.   That's the philosophy that the Drought Era regimes embraced and which is what resulted in the Bills missing the playoffs for 17 straight seasons.

Not having Josh Allen for 17 straight seasons is what resulted in the drought era. We would have been just as far with several of those drought teams as we have the last 5+ years by just adding Josh. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Mikie2times

[DCofNC]

10 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Tell this thinking to the packers regime who consistently have a plethora of WRs drafted in that range that seem to turn into instant contributors. If you want I can show you at least 10 mid round WRs from the past 2 years who are already contributing. Yes it may take them half a season or more to get in sync with their QB and an NFL playbook but it’s 4 years of cheap labor and then more often than not you get them on a team friendly deal like we did with Shakir 

out of curiosity, what have the Packers won recently?

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

out of curiosity, what have the Packers won recently?

What have the Bills?

[NeverOutNick]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

out of curiosity, what have the Packers won recently?

You don’t think it’s impressive that they are always in the playoffs with a subpar QB? That’s curious

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Put a league average QB on this offense and we wouldn’t put up a top 15 PPG total. If you don’t think that is the case it’s not worth talking any further. Without Josh it completely falls apart. As it has for any offensive player who has left the Bills in the Allen era. Gabe Davis was our #2 for gods sake. Even more funny, he would probably still be today. 

But we don’t have that. We have the MVP who helps make guys better.  Like Brady did for years.

[FireChans]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

But we don’t have that. We have the MVP who helps make guys better.  Like Brady did for years.

The Pats used to draft WR's. Often.

16 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Tell this thinking to the packers regime who consistently have a plethora of WRs drafted in that range that seem to turn into instant contributors. If you want I can show you at least 10 mid round WRs from the past 2 years who are already contributing. Yes it may take them half a season or more to get in sync with their QB and an NFL playbook but it’s 4 years of cheap labor and then more often than not you get them on a team friendly deal like we did with Shakir 

Steelers with Big Ben a better example.

 

A WR every year or every other year in rounds 2-4 kept a stable of talent around Big Ben for the second half of his career and imo prolonged his career.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Pats used to draft WR's. Often.

Steelers with Big Ben a better example.

 

A WR every year or every other year in rounds 2-4 kept a stable of talent around Big Ben for the second half of his career and imo prolonged his career.

And Brady helped them.  The reality is we have a great QB, so I don’t get hypotheticals ignoring that.  
 

If we had drafted the kid we picked in the 7th in the 4th I wonder if the kerfluffle would still be going on.  

Edited 8 hours ago by oldmanfan

[FireChans]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You do realize that most Day 3 picks at whatever position they play are lacking in at least one of these:  talent, experience or size.  Most of them will never be more than special teamers.  Those who do succeed usually take two or more seasons to become good pros, so a team has a "good pro" for only one or two years if that team doesn't re-sign the Day 3 picks who turn into their good pros.   That's the philosophy that the Drought Era regimes embraced and which is what resulted in the Bills missing the playoffs for 17 straight seasons.

Does this mean we should never draft anybody on Day 3?  What is this take

Just now, oldmanfan said:

And Brady helped them.

Of course he did.

 

All QBs help all their WRs.

 

But the Pats in all their dynastic glory still drafted more WRs than the Bills did. Clearly they thought the position was at least kind of important.

 

The Chiefs draft more WRs than the Bills. Clearly they think the position is at least kind of important.

 

So we have two teams that have won like 9 SB's between them drafting more WR's than us. Maybe we should emulate them? Maybe?

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

But we don’t have that. We have the MVP who helps make guys better.  Like Brady did for years.

Like I said, we don’t provide the tools to Allen a less capable QB would get. Even more humorous, where the hell are the extra tools going (given our defense sucks and we just spent an entire draft on that side of the ball).

[Kirby Jackson]

22 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

With valid reason, the commitments made at WR with contracts to Palmer, Shakir and Samuel make them locks, the 2nd round pick on Keon means you have to give him his opportunity.  There was no more money to spend and no real talent to make any difference in this draft, they restocked the D and replaced Knox for next offseason so they can make moves on the O.  What do you want? Push one of the aforementioned to the 5th WR role and still have gapping holes on the D?

I’ve probably said 100 times in these threads what I wanted. I wanted one of the 13 deep threats drafted between rounds 3 & 5 to be selected. I wanted them on the team to stretch the field vertically. McDermott and Beane have both said how important that was. It wasn’t a big ask. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

Like I said, we don’t provide the tools to Allen a less capable QB would get. Even more humorous, where the hell are the extra tools going (given our defense sucks and we just spent an entire draft on that side of the ball).

We also add guys in free agency.    I recall last year people laughed when Hollins was added, and now many are very sad he left after one year.  We cheered for Cooper but I don’t think he added what we thought he would.  Some now assume Palmer will stink but will that tune be different in a year?  Same with Coleman.

 

Drafting a WR every year I guess is fine, but to me you use a draft to add strength where you need it, and we needed much re strength with DBs and the D line interior.  So they addressed that.  Doesn’t mean I think Beane is absolutely done at WR, but if he wants to keep the offense humming I hope he’s working on the Cook deal now.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ve probably said 100 times in these threads what I wanted. I wanted one of the 13 deep threats drafted between rounds 3 & 5 to be selected. I wanted them on the team to stretch the field vertically. McDermott and Beane have both said how important that was. It wasn’t a big ask. 

How would you answer to the fact they have guys with speed on the practice squad that don’t suit up?

Edited 8 hours ago by oldmanfan

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

How would you answer to the fact they have guys with speed on the practice squad that don’t suit up?

Those guys suck.

 

maybe a guy we draft doesn’t suck.

 

isnt that the same logic for every player we draft?

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Those guys suck.

 

maybe a guy we draft doesn’t suck.

 

isnt that the same logic for every player we draft?

Do they suck, or are they just the 6th guy when we have 5 guys in front of them?  Because a guy hasn’t quite broken through, do they automatically suck?

[Mike in Horseheads]

[QLBillsFan]

24 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

You don’t think it’s impressive that they are always in the playoffs with a subpar QB? That’s curious

Subpar?? Love is a solid NFL QB that most experts feel can be very good. 

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

How would you answer to the fact they have guys with speed on the practice squad that don’t suit up?

That would only strengthen my point. They both said in their postseason press conferences that they need to threaten the field vertically. The fact that they know that, and still didn’t dress those guys, doesn’t bode well for those guys. 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Do they suck, or are they just the 6th guy when we have 5 guys in front of them?  Because a guy hasn’t quite broken through, do they automatically suck?

KJ Hamler wasn’t good enough to break through last year or the previous 4.
 

I was a big KJ Hamler fan coming out. And yeah, I think he sucks. 
 

We have guys with size on the PS. We have Eli Ankou. We have developmental CBs who make the roster, like Ingram and Cam Lewis. Why did we need to draft their replacements? Is it… because those guys suck?

[Mister Defense]

46 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Like I said, we don’t provide the tools to Allen a less capable QB would get. Even more humorous, where the hell are the extra tools going (given our defense sucks and we just spent an entire draft on that side of the ball).

 

So, you are saying the Bills basically have almost no tools, overall, on either offense or defense?  And very poor tools, mainly?

 

To you, it is just a one man show on offense, and almost no tools on defense either?

 

Do you really think Josh Allen was able to create the best offense in the NFL last year, and historically speaking,  and one of the most balanced ever, the first ever with both 30 rushing and 30 passing downs, with one of the best offensive lines, and one of the best running back rooms, and perhaps the best 2 tight end combo, and with receivers good enough for him  to earn his first MVP ever, without given quality tools? And do you honestly believe what you say above in bold?  

 

Or is it just the heat of the moment, really not something you honesty think is true?

 

If so, I think it  would be extremely difficult to support your analysis with much objective evidence. Impossible, actually.

 

The Bills were 13-4 last year (with the last game a giveaway), and were leading the AFC Championship late in the 4th quarter, on the road, without their starting safety or cornerback, and  against Patrick Mahomes, the two time Super Bowl champion. 

 

We should start calling  the 2024 Bills the Toolless Wonders. (Or better, the Toolless Miracles?)

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Mister Defense

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

So, you are saying the Bills basically have almost no tools, overall, on either offense or defense?  And very poor tools, mainly?

 

To you, it is just a one man show on offense, and almost no tools on defense either?

 

Do you really think Josh Allen was able to create the best offense in the NFL last year, and historically speaking,  and one of the most balanced ever, the first ever with both 30 rushing and 30 passing downs, with one of the best offensive lines, and one of the best running back rooms, and perhaps the best 2 tight end combo, and with receivers good enough for him  to earn his first MVP ever, without given quality tools? And do you honestly believe what you say above in bold?  

 

Or is it just the heat of the moment, really not something you honesty think is true?

 

If so, I think it  would be extremely difficult to support your analysis with much objective evidence. Impossible, actually.

 

The Bills were 13-4 last year (with the last game a giveaway), and were leading the AFC Championship late in the 4th quarter, on the road, without their starting safety or cornerback, and  against Patrick Mahomes, the two time Super Bowl champion.  We should start calling them the 2024 Bills the Toolless Wonders. (Or better, the Toolless Miracles?)

 

 

 

 

If Gabe Davis is on this team (the guy that averaged under 30 yards per game last year). He would either be our #2 or possibly even our #1 WR. 
 

We don’t have a top 10 TE, we have over 20 million invested at TE but neither is top 10. Maybe as a unit it’s top 10? We have a very good line that has the best OL coach in football behind it. It benefits a lot from Allen evading the pass rush, so it’s difficult to say how good. Certainly top 10 and maybe top 5? Cook is top 10 as well. How does the running game look without an Allen? I really don’t know. Not as strong for sure, but the line is good and so is the ground game. 
 

Even Shakir is probably no more than an average slot in the scheme of what he would do on another team. 
 

Not a unit that could support a middle tier QB like Sam Darnold, as the Vikings did last year. If Josh wasn’t on the team they wouldn’t be top 15 in points scored in my opinion. 
 

On defense, the talent level is so overwhelming that we had to spend nearly our entire draft filling holes. Lots of B level talent, very little A level talent. Outside of Allen I’m not sure that we have one All Pro on the roster. Some are getting closer or on the fringe of those awards, Brown, Benford, chief among them. I also think we have added a fairly absurd amount of pieces to the defense this year so hopefully that iteration breaks thru along with some player development from the last draft. 

 

When you set records for turnover differential, have an MVP QB, and play in a trash division, you can do a lot. Some posters like to equate these stats to raw talent. I don’t agree with it. It feels pretty easy to dismiss that view point just looking at the individual positions groups.

Edited 7 hours ago by Mikie2times