Abdul Carter vs Travis Hunter (two guys the Bills have no chance to even draft)

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Would like to know where the board stands on who should the Bills draft (huge if I know) if they had these two players in front of them Thursday night.

 

They'd need to have the 2nd Pick in the Draft to be in a position to have "these two players in front of them". Which as you said, has no chance of happening.

 

But if we did, in my opinion - it's Hunter. He's elite at both WR and CB. While no one is playing 100% of the snaps on both Offense and Defense, he could have a base position and still play packages on the other side of the ball. And he can switch base position where needed when there's injuries.

 

Given both are positions of need for us, I value the need for Playmakers on Offense more than most, and that it's a Defensive Line Draft - I'd go Hunter and then address Edge on Day 2.

 

But you really can't go wrong either way. To me, they're the 2 best players in this class and by a pretty big margin.

Edited yesterday at 04:09 AM by BillsFanForever19

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Hypothetically, how much would it take?

Trading Josh Allen.

[pennstate10]

51 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Its without question Carter, and its not close.  

 

DE Carter > CB Hunter

DE Carter > WR Hunter

 

Hunters appeal is he can play both positions...but that novelty has less value in the NFL.  No matter what position Hunter commits too, Carter is a better prospect at his position than Hunter is at that position.  

 

You take Carter if given the chance.  Doesn't mean Hunter isn't also one of the best prospects in the draft, but Carter is arguably the best prospect in this whole draft and has an elite potential.  

I think the Super Bowl showed us that press man coverage is better than elite pass rush. 
 

Mahomes was getting the ball out in less than 2.5 sec vs Bills. So he beat the pass rush with his quick throws against Bills zone. 
 

Eagles pressed KC WR so Mahomes had no one to throw to at 2.5 sec. Allowing Eagles rush to take him at 3+ sec. 
 

Even though I think Carter is better than Parsons — more explosive, better short area quickness—Take the elite man press CB. 

[Thrivefourfive]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

I think the Super Bowl showed us that press man coverage is better than elite pass rush. 
 

Mahomes was getting the ball out in less than 2.5 sec vs Bills. So he beat the pass rush with his quick throws against Bills zone. 
 

Eagles pressed KC WR so Mahomes had no one to throw to at 2.5 sec. Allowing Eagles rush to take him at 3+ sec. 
 

Even though I think Carter is better than Parsons — more explosive, better short area quickness—Take the elite man press CB. 

I’d contend that even with shutdown corners, the Bills line isn’t getting home. The Eagles had better D Lineman and a better DC scheme. Wasn’t just the press man. 

[GunnerBill]

I think Hunter is the slightly superior talent, but for the Bills I'd take Abdul Carter.

[Simon]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Its without question Carter, and its not close.  

 

DE Carter > CB Hunter

DE Carter > WR Hunter

 

Hunters appeal is he can play both positions...but that novelty has less value in the NFL.  No matter what position Hunter commits too, Carter is a better prospect at his position than Hunter is at that position.  

 

You take Carter if given the chance.  Doesn't mean Hunter isn't also one of the best prospects in the draft, but Carter is arguably the best prospect in this whole draft and has a elite potential.  

 

As a Penn State fan I've reallllly enjoyed watching Carter's greatness, truly jaw-dropping at times.

But if/when his body starts to betray him fairly early in his NFL career, remember this post. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Neither. 

Both guys are the product of one of the weakest top end talent drafts in the last 20 years 

Cam Ward might not have been even the 4th QB chosen last year. Sanders probably would have been a 2nd round QB. Hell he might still be this year. 

Hunter also would have probably been the 4th WR taken last year. As a pure CB he's probably a mid to late first round talent. Much closer to White than Sauce.

Carter is not even as good as Parsons and he was taken 12th.  

[Chandler#81]

I dunno, I disagree. No way 10 draft picks make this team. Trade a boatload early and get up into the top 10. Instant starter for the next decade!

[ddaryl]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Always take the elite lineman unless there’s an overriding character concern. Even with the best of the best…. Bruce/LT/Reggie or Rice/Megatron or Deion/Champ Bailey? 

 

the game is won or lost in the trenches 

[Billzgobowlin]

Not sure Hunter is going to be a stud at either position but still scarred from drafting Aaron Maybin.  I know Carter and him are nothing alike but Penn State D End scares me

[NoName]

Cater and it's not close.  We have struck out time and time again on DEs.  To be able to get a DE with Micah Parsons like potential could finally give us what we've never had during the McD error, a young, elite DE.  We've had elite play at WR (Diggs) and CB (Tre White) in the McDermot era but not at DE (not counting Miller's 1/2 season before the injury). 

 

Also, I don't think Hunter will play both positions full-time at the NFL level.  Especially given his smallish frame.

[pennstate10]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

As a Penn State fan I've reallllly enjoyed watching Carter's greatness, truly jaw-dropping at times.

But if/when his body starts to betray him fairly early in his NFL career, remember this post. 

I’ve probably watched every snap of Carters PSU career. 
 

what stands out is his explosiveness and closing speed.  Especially obvious from the second level. 
 

I think his best position is 3-4 OLB. Not that he can’t play a 4-3 DE (which is what he played last year), but he is a bit light for 4-3 DE, and his speed seems to fit best at 3-4 OLB. Like TJ Watt, no need to get tangled up with OT at LOS. 

[dpberr]

Edge to Travis Hunter.  He can perform in pretty much any offense, or defense for that matter.  

 

Carter has more "good, but not great" potential between the two IMO.  He could be Micah Parsons, but equally could also be Hasson Reddick in his early years with the Cardinals.  Star linebackers in college need a great fit in scheme to excel in the NFL. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

 

As a Penn State fan I've reallllly enjoyed watching Carter's greatness, truly jaw-dropping at times.

But if/when his body starts to betray him fairly early in his NFL career, remember this post. 

 

If a team thinks potential injury is a concern, then that is certainly a fair thing to consider when weighing him against another premiere prospect like Hunter.  And look, I love Hunter coming out and would love either player on the Bills, I just think Carter has the potential to be really special as a pass rusher and Hunter for me gives me concern if he will ever truly go all in at CB and leave WR behind (or vice versa).  I am skeptical he can reach his ceiling splitting time at both positions.  

 

That being said, my understanding is that the shoulder he dinged up against Boise State and the previously unknown foot injury were not long term concerns, and likely won't even impact his rookie year even.  I know he has a low lean-body-mass and some teams look at that as heightened injury risk, but I didn't think there were any major injury concerns moving forward.  Have you seen or heard otherwise?  

 

Edited yesterday at 04:38 PM by Alphadawg7

[Mat68]

Carter has the traits and ability of the all time greats at the position.  Hunter playing both ways is very rare.  I think playing both will take away from one or both of the positions.  Jack of all trades master of none.  Now Deon did it with baseball and Db.  Could he have played both wr and db full time?  Sure.  Would he be the same shut down guy?  I dont think he would.  I think Carter has better odds reaching his potential.  Hunter is more susceptible to injury or under development of technique.  Hunter lacks the elite speed for either wr or cb.  His best attributes lends to him being a technician.  I think playing both position lends to a lack of development or technical lapse from fatigue.   

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Carter has the traits and ability of the all time greats at the position.  Hunter playing both ways is very rare.  I think playing both will take away from one or both of the positions.  Jack of all trades master of none.  Now Deon did it with baseball and Db.  Could he have played both wr and db full time?  Sure.  Would he be the same shut down guy?  I dont think he would.  I think Carter has better odds reaching his potential.  Hunter is more susceptible to injury or under development of technique.  Hunter lacks the elite speed for either wr or cb.  His best attributes lends to him being a technician.  I think playing both position lends to a lack of development or technical lapse from fatigue.   

 

This is essentially how I feel as well.  This is why I said for the Bills its Carter, and its not really a close decision for me.  If Hunter comes out and says he is abandoning one of the 2 positions all together and fully committing to one, well then I think you are talking about a much tougher decision.  My skepticism on Hunter (in terms of him vs Carter as I do think Hunter is still one of the 3 best players in the draft) is entirely tied to whether its possible to reach your potential if you are not putting 100% of your development and work into that one position.  

 

Hunter has maintained he 100% still wants to play both sides...this isn't College...NFL is a different animal.  I just can't see him reaching his ceiling on either side if he is splitting time between the two.  And if he does ultimately commit to one or the other, we still don't know if its at WR or CB.  

 

So for me, Carter is the easy choice for the Bills today for those reasons.  We aren't getting either player, but I would be ecstatic is we got either of them...the criticism of Hunter is directly tied to weighing him or Carter, I still think Hunter is an elite prospect despite my concerns on him trying to play both sides in the NFL.  

[st pete gogolak]

So when did elite DE’s start to look like safeties (Carter, Chase Young, Parsons)?  

[Mat68]

18 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

So when did elite DE’s start to look like safeties (Carter, Chase Young, Parsons)?  

6-3 250.  LT and Bruce are the proto types.  LT 6-3 230’s Bruce 6-4 260’s.  

[Thrivefourfive]

So Hunter is gonna want to play full time WR right? Why wouldn’t he if he’s equally ranked #1 at both positions. The money surge is substantial between the two. 
 

But the Bills would want him at corner. So this is a non starter I believe. Again, we all understand we’re not getting either of these two dudes. 
 

I think it’s clear that the Bills need to invest in a game wrecking defensive line presence. How long do you have to wait until we have a defender who can hold JA17’s jock (strap)?? Is this another year gone by without that guy that brings us glory on the final drive versus the Chiefs?
 

Hell, if we had that guy in that embarrassing Give-away first down on the Chiefs run-out-the-clock 1st down (or all the other super easy nine yard gains in that game last year)….. WE NEED TO GIVE ALLEN MORE POSSESSIONS AT THE EMD OF GAMES

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Thrivefourfive

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

We lack any sort of pass rush in the playoffs, Abdul carter would change all of that. He is said to be on the same level as Micah Parsons, that would be an unreal addition to the pass rush.