Pope Francis

[daz28]

8 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Thanks.  I thought something similar:  Dumb kids = amoral adults.  Schools don't work therefore churches don't work.  Largely true but not totally.  Francis touched many people.  So did John Paul II.  The world is better for them.  And Jesus would definitely not be a MAGA were he here today.

 

I'm sure he was a good person, and did plenty of good for the world, but I made a conditional statement of logic, and the logic is sound.  If you need an embellishment of the point though, how much harm has the DOE caused; now ask yourself the same question of religion.  

2 minutes ago, 4th&long said:

J.D. Vance Trolled as Pope Francis Dies Just Hours After Their Meeting: 'He Probably Drained the Pope's Will to Live'

https://flip.it/dG6Nmc

I thought maybe he prayed to God that he'd never have to see JD again, and then God worked through his 'mysterious ways'.  

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

That’s the beauty of our world, boyst.  Feel the way you do, and you’re certainly correct that the church has been an abject failure at times.  Its created turmoil and conflict for me as I try to wrap my head around it.  We were actively involved in the church, my experiences were excellent pretty much across the board.  Still, the other stuff. 
 

People of faith celebrate the goodness, decency and community offered by the church, warts and all.  In spite of the trauma, the Catholic faith has given joy and comfort to untold numbers of people through history.  I’m glad we’re at a point where you can speak your mind in spite of how it might conflict with those who practice the religion.  
 

Besides, there isn’t any room at Del Boca Vista for you at the next Moral Compass meeting, so don’t even bother calling!! 

 I lost the number, unfortunately so I don't think I will be calling.

 

But your point is spot on religion. This country is founded on the basis to practice your beliefs and religion as openly as you'd like and should always be protected. Religion is a great tool for right vs wrong, good and just vs. wrong and unfair. The Quakers are perhaps my favorite religion. Their teachings are the most realistic to modern day life.

 

The celebration of religion built on brutality is confounding. Can you truly celebrate what is in existence today when it conquered and sought out wars? Not just defended itself but actively led wars against many cultures, countries, people.

 

It's easy to white wash it now because look at all the good it did! That King James, his bible is a testament to his good causes of hunting witches and burning women, men, and children alive! That Mohammed, all those child brides he took is pretty bad. No religion is perfect. I think Ghandi stepped on an ant.

 

But, as a tool to improve your life and provide guidance, yes. Religion can do very good to assist in direction.

 

(I was dedicated in a big ceremony from the waters where John the Baptist was from, I attended church regularly as a kid. I have read the Bible, the Quran... None of it stuck.)

40 minutes ago, US Egg said:

Ok, thanks. Guess all the Catholic church closing in the U.S. aren’t an indicator. 

Catholic churches are growing in the Hispanic population. Across the south you'll find many churches shuttered for Christians to reopen under a Catholic banner of Hispanic origin.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

 I lost the number, unfortunately so I don't think I will be calling.

 

But your point is spot on religion. This country is founded on the basis to practice your beliefs and religion as openly as you'd like and should always be protected. Religion is a great tool for right vs wrong, good and just vs. wrong and unfair. The Quakers are perhaps my favorite religion. Their teachings are the most realistic to modern day life.

 

The celebration of religion built on brutality is confounding. Can you truly celebrate what is in existence today when it conquered and sought out wars? Not just defended itself but actively led wars against many cultures, countries, people.

 

It's easy to white wash it now because look at all the good it did! That King James, his bible is a testament to his good causes of hunting witches and burning women, men, and children alive! That Mohammed, all those child brides he took is pretty bad. No religion is perfect. I think Ghandi stepped on an ant.

 

But, as a tool to improve your life and provide guidance, yes. Religion can do very good to assist in direction.

 

(I was dedicated in a big ceremony from the waters where John the Baptist was from, I attended church regularly as a kid. I have read the Bible, the Quran... None of it stuck.)

To your question, yes, apparently people who support the church and believe in God can embrace the present in spite of the actions of people from the past.  I don’t really think it’s that hard for some people.  I don’t know anything about the Quakers, but to the extent you found them, that’s great.  
 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

26 minutes ago, daz28 said:

now ask yourself the same question of religion.  

yes, lots of bad.  more good. The concept of charity is religious.  without it, the top 1% would have owned everything long ago.  We'd all be serfs.  Dissenters would be dead.  Fascist, authoritarian, murderous regimes were/are largely areligious, agnostic at best.  Morality exists largely due to religion.

Edited 17 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[daz28]

9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

 without it, the top 1% would have awned everything long ago.

Trust me, everything that we have the 1% basically considers 'charity'.  One of the only things in humanity, that's NOT based in morality, is money.  Also, I think that the church, which has not only historically supported authoritarian, murderous regimes, but also been one itself.  Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point they've done good, just not via the mechanisms you described.  Currently in those endeavors, the church is mostly ineffective.  Lastly, I'd argue that if morality exists from religion, that it's largely through fear and supposition.  Morality is likely inborn, just as the ability to know when you've been wronged is.  Mental pain, so to speak.  

Edited 17 hours ago by daz28

[Joe Ferguson forever]

31 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Morality is likely inborn,

predestination?  I believe there is no present, past or future due to the concept of omnipotence.  Time is an illusion (I am the alpha and omega).  But we still have free will.  even the fundamentalists largely agree, if they bother to consider the difficult question.

Edited 17 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[daz28]

8 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

predestination?  I believe there is no present, past or future due to the concept of omnipotence.  Time is an illusion (I am the alpha and omega).  But we still have free will.  even the fundamentalists largely agree, if they bother to consider the difficult question.

No, I'm saying it's akin to a physical pain response.  Some things just feel bad/wrong, and that effects your mental well-being, as a pain response protects your physical well-being.  I wouldn't even say much of it depends on self-reflection either(it would hurt me, so it must hurt them), because animals are much less savage than us, and they don't generally want to do harm on each other.  That's not due to self-reflection, so it's got to be inborn.  

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

The propensity of religion to gather individuals who seek and value belonging also tend to be hive minded and group think. This low bar of expectations that prays upon those who are not capable of free thought and cling to the Catholicism for guidance allows the narrative to be easily manipulated.

 

No.  
 

That “group think” is a people that share the same values and belief system - to see to it that their spouse and children get to heaven. 
 

And if all shared in this “group think” which is morally good - you would feel extremely confident that your kids will find someone with those shared values.  
 

Which are inherently good.  And the truth.  
 

 

NO COINCIDENCE as society lost sight of this - divorce rates sky rocket and Western Civilization is an absolute mess.  Teaching boys they can be girls and vice versa.  Madness.  

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Morality exists largely due to religion.

Thank God.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

55 minutes ago, daz28 said:

No, I'm saying it's akin to a physical pain response.  Some things just feel bad/wrong, and that effects your mental well-being, as a pain response protects your physical well-being.  I wouldn't even say much of it depends on self-reflection either(it would hurt me, so it must hurt them), because animals are much less savage than us, and they don't generally want to do harm on each other.  That's not due to self-reflection, so it's got to be inborn.  

This isn't logic based other than incorporation of the question "How did the universe begin?" or "what is the meaning of life",  But your argument excludes the possibility the humans are born with a soul.  I reject that belief but accept that it's certainly possible that I'm wrong.

18 minutes ago, US Egg said:

Thank God.

Yes, If you believe humans are inherently good.  Many faiths and Christian sects don't.

Edited 16 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

This isn't logic based other than incorporation of the question "How did the universe begin?" or "what is the meaning of life",  But your argument excludes the possibility the humans are born without a soul.  I reject that belief but accept that it's certainly possible that I'm wrong.

Not meant to be logical.  Just my opinion based on my observation. The comparison to the animal world holds some weight though.  Why aren't they "evil" to one another.  You'd think a savage, unthinking beast would be 100x worse than us, not the other way around.  'Humanity' seems to be a bit of a misnomer. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

13 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Not meant to be logical.  Just my opinion based on my observation. The comparison to the animal world holds some weight though.  Why aren't they "evil" to one another.  You'd think a savage, unthinking beast would be 100x worse than us, not the other way around.  'Humanity' seems to be a bit of a misnomer. 

There are constant examples of savage attacks by animals.  Even domesticated animals.  Natural selection is most evident in nonhumans.  I joke about survival of the fittest here but it is the ultimate reality for wild beasts.

[daz28]

9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

There are constant examples of savage attacks by animals.  Even domesticated animals.  Natural selection is most evident in nonhumans.  I joke about survival of the fittest here but it is the ultimate reality for wild beasts.

Savage was a bad word choice, because it can have both meanings.  I meant unprovoked, unnecessary, or maybe unjustified.  If animals acted like us, they wouldn't maintain a proper ecosystem.  Their violence seems to be mostly survival driven.  Attacking something else for no possible benefit would be a waste of valuable resources to them.  Beast is another word that would fill both meanings.   

[Joe Ferguson forever]

here's one "Christian" nationalist's reaction to the news.  No doubt many others agree.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-declares-evil-is-being-defeated-by-the-hand-of-god-in-apparent-celebration-of-pope-franciss-death/

 

“Did not have ‘Thank God the Pope is finally dead, evil has been vanquished’ on my Bingo card of reactions, but MTG always aims to grab the headlines,” mused National Review‘s Jeff Blehar.

Edited 15 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[Joe Ferguson forever]

23 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Savage was a bad word choice, because it can have both meanings.  I meant unprovoked, unnecessary, or maybe unjustified.  If animals acted like us, they wouldn't maintain a proper ecosystem.  Their violence seems to be mostly survival driven.  Attacking something else for no possible benefit would be a waste of valuable resources to them.  Beast is another word that would fill both meanings.   

Alternatively, there are many examples of human self sacrifice: running into a burning building, fighting against terrible odds, treating incurable transmissible diseases, forgoing family life to be clergy etc...I think these acts are much less common in animals, especially wild ones.

[boyst]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

No.  
 

That “group think” is a people that share the same values and belief system - to see to it that their spouse and children get to heaven. 
 

And if all shared in this “group think” which is morally good - you would feel extremely confident that your kids will find someone with those shared values.  
 

Which are inherently good.  And the truth.  
 

 

NO COINCIDENCE as society lost sight of this - divorce rates sky rocket and Western Civilization is an absolute mess.  Teaching boys they can be girls and vice versa.  Madness.  

uh. huh.  long breath. 

 

there literally is no reason to reply to your message because you're incapable of criticism with such high moralistic values you hold for yourself as superior to the non believer.

 

your good isn't my good. my good is not her good. her good is not his good. his good is not their good. their good is not your good.

 

what self absorbed egomaniacal arrogance to believe you or anyone can make such decisions. 

8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

here's one "Christian" nationalist's reaction to the news.  No doubt many others agree.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-declares-evil-is-being-defeated-by-the-hand-of-god-in-apparent-celebration-of-pope-franciss-death/

 

“Did not have ‘Thank God the Pope is finally dead, evil has been vanquished’ on my Bingo card of reactions, but MTG always aims to grab the headlines,” mused National Review‘s Jeff Blehar.

you're taking exactly what she said to be about the Pope when she did not explicitly name him therefore she is trolling at worst or speaking of something else at best.

 

hook, line, and sinker....every time.

 

and even worse, Blehar whines that she likes to grab headlines and then jumps in feet first to grab a headline talking about it to be quoted about someone elses quote for a sensational headline. this is why we have trump and so many others. if people just shut up and did not feel the need to have their own idiot voices heard a lot of stupidity would die off.

 

ignore those who do nothing but run their mouth, eventually they run out of air in the room.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

uh. huh.  long breath. 

 

there literally is no reason to reply to your message because you're incapable of criticism with such high moralistic values you hold for yourself as superior to the non believer.

 

 

 

Yet you just did.  But you have no rebuttal because it’s the truth.  
 

If you disagree then why are you posting anything here or anywhere for that matter?  
 

Do you not think your POV is morally or ethically superior to others - or do you know you’re just a giant immorally weak and insecure human?  

[boyst]

50 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yet you just did.  But you have no rebuttal because it’s the truth.  
 

If you disagree then why are you posting anything here or anywhere for that matter?  
 

Do you not think your POV is morally or ethically superior to others - or do you know you’re just a giant immorally weak and insecure human?  

The latter first, per religion we are all flawed.

 

I'm not insecure and opinions on my morality will differ. I don't know anyone that would ever describe me as insecure. Morality, id figure most would say I'm fine or ok. I don't think I'm better than anyone, I'm just another piece of the world. 

 

I post here because I have nothing better to do when I finish connections, the mini, stands, global, wordle, and the DuoLingo lesson for the day and work has free time so here we are...

 

There is no reply to your bloviating that there is a dude in the sky who died for our sins, or some virgin who had a baby (maybe she was soaking???), or l ron Hubbard's space things, etc... religion is a man made tool. It's quite useful to many and I applaud those who choose to believe. Who am I to give a ***** or tell them their beliefs are wrong? Worship as you like, I'll still make fun of it because it's hilarious people get so caught up in religion like it's a sport or political game. 

[SectionC3]

14 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Thanks.  I thought something similar:  Dumb kids = amoral adults.  Schools don't work therefore churches don't work.  Largely true but not totally.  Francis touched many people.  So did John Paul II.  The world is better for them.  And Jesus would definitely not be a MAGA were He here today.

 

Agreed completely. 

[B-Man]