Draft as many of these 7 DTs as possible

[schoolhouserock]

CJ West really is an interesting prospect.

[Warriorspikes51]

36 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

CJ West really is an interesting prospect.

 

Short arms, not very tall....but he looks wide and his speed + vertical is pretty impressive

 

 

CJ WEST, Draft Buzz: 

 

Scouting Report: Strengths

Exceptional leverage player who maximizes his natural low center of gravity to anchor against double teams far better than his measurables would suggest.

Processing speed jumps off the tape—consistently identifies blocking schemes pre-snap and reacts with decisive first movements to counter offensive designs.

Plays with violent hands that shock and separate blockers, showing surprising strength to knock back centers and guards with initial punch.

Moves laterally with surprising quickness, proving nearly impossible to reach-block when playing on the edge of centers in zone schemes.

Gap-slashing ability creates consistent backfield penetration, timing his bursts to slip through cracks in blocking assignments like water finding holes in concrete.

Routinely splits double teams with textbook "kickstand" technique and low pad level, attacking half-a-man to negate two-on-one disadvantages.

Displays exceptional competitive toughness, never satisfied with simply occupying blocks and consistently working to disengage and pursue plays outside his gap.

Shows enough lateral quickness and change-of-direction ability to redirect in tight spaces, making him more than just a stationary run-stuffer.

 

Scouting Report: Weaknesses

Length deficiencies (31½" arms) show up when attempting to control blockers at extension, forcing him to win immediately or risk being engulfed by longer linemen.

First-step explosiveness is merely adequate, limiting his ability to consistently beat blockers off the snap in passing situations.

Pass rush arsenal remains underdeveloped, relying primarily on bull rush and arm-over without consistent counters when initial moves are stalled out.

Tackling efficiency concerns show up on tape, with several missed opportunities to finish plays that he created with initial penetration.

Can occasionally lose discipline and freelance outside his gap responsibility, creating vulnerability in otherwise sound defensive fronts.

 

Scouting Report: Summary

Put West in a one-gap, attacking front and watch him thrive as a disruptive early-down specialist. His innate ability to maintain leverage and shed blocks translates immediately to the pro game, particularly in systems that value penetration over read-and-react responsibilities. The film shows a player who consistently creates chaos against the run but needs technical refinement to impact passing downs consistently. His lateral quickness and hand violence will earn him playing time from day one in specific packages.

The tape against blue-chip competition reveals a defensive tackle who won't back down from anyone. When facing elite interior offensive linemen from Michigan and Ohio State, West more than held his own—consistently controlling his gap and often creating penetration that disrupted offensive timing. The extraordinary transformation of Indiana's run defense during his lone season speaks volumes about his impact between the tackles. His game carries a workmanlike quality with flashes of dominance when his technique aligns with his natural power.

Day three of the draft should yield several quality interior defenders, with West positioned to become one of the more impactful in the right system. His combination of run-stuffing prowess and developing pass rush ability makes him an ideal rotational piece with starter upside. Three years from now, we might look back at West as a player whose impact far outpaced his draft positioning—a gap-controlling force who developed just enough rush ability to stay on the field for all three downs.

 

 

 

just looking at photos of West, he at least looks the part of a higher tier DT  IMO 

 

He is a wide load who looks strong and in shape.  His arms despite being short are massive

would love him in Round 4

Edited 21 hours ago by Warriorspikes51

[LEBills]

34 minutes ago, MJS said:

Well, the problem is the list of DT's who fit those criteria but never amounted to anything in the NFL. That is a very long list, I'm sure.

 

Regardless, nice work. I like the analysis.

thank you, their are certainly some but the list is actually pretty short:

 

Shareif Floyd - injuries cut career short

 

Rashard Hageman: he had legal troubles early in his career

 

Malik McDowell - drafted in 2017 but couldn’t play until 2021 due to an ATV injury

 

Our own Larry Ogunjobi qualifies and depends how you view him but he had a 9.5 mil/year contract

 

Montravius Adams - not good

 

PJ Hall - bust

Harrison Phillips - depends how you view him. Pretty good NT who has multiple mid size contracts

Neville Galimore - bust

 

McTelvin again - bust

So that is 9 of 32 players drafted in rounds 1-3 between 2013 and 2023 who hit one of the metrics. There were 90 players drafted total. I’d say 4 were straight busts, 3 injury/legal issues and 2 that are a bit mid.

 

Many of the other busts were weeded out by the qualifiers. I call being over 295 pounds the Jerry Tillery rule. And having a RAS over 7 weeded out a lot of players that somehow fell into 5+ sacks.

 

Anyway to your point not all of these will hit, but I think the best players will come out of this group.

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, LEBills said:

I went through all DTs selected to the All-pro team and/or Pro Bowl from 2013-2025 to see if I could find any similarities in their background pre-draft.

 

In that timeframe 37 different players were selected. Of that group 25 (67%) of the individuals selected met one of the two following criteria. However, since many of the players were nominated multiple times, those who hit this criteria made up over 82% of the total selections.

 

Production: At least 5 sacks recorded in a single college season by their true Junior year AND a RAS greater than 7

 

Speed: A Sub 5.0 40 and/or a sub 1.7 10 yard split while weighing more than 295 pounds

 

 

So who meets these criteria in this draft class?

 

Production:

Josh Farmer, Florida State

CJ West, Indiana

Walter Nolen, Ole Miss*

Tyleik Williams, Ohio State*

 

Speed:

Derrick Harmon, Oregon

Darius Alexander, Toldeo

TJ Sanders, South Carolina

CJ West, Indiana
 

Commentary:

The most important factor in success is obviously draft capital. So in this class and past draft classes, I focused on those drafted by the end of day 2.
 

First, what a DT class this is! The previous record for DTs who met one of these criteria was 5 players each in 2019 and 2018 (8 of those 10 are making over 10 million per year on their current contracts). 
 

Now there are obviously players who succeed that didn’t meet those criteria so scouting is still needed. But for your best shot at finding a star, this is the group to focus on in my opinion.

 

* = no RAS

^ = small school prospect

Great work!  Data analyst?  Or just exceptionally passionate lol?

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Great work!  Data analyst?  Or just exceptionally passionate lol?

I have twin babies that don’t sleep and I need crap to do that is quiet while trying to get them to go back to sleep lol

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Impressive research! I have to wonder if the Bills scouting department looks into things this analytically. Or do they just go with gut feelings. 

I cant imagine they dont.  OP crushed it, but id be disappointed if this wasnt just a surface level of what they do. 

 

Totally following criteria for a stat like this is optional?  I cant imagine just having these kind of analytics being optional though.  This kinda thing probably helps them separate between similarly ranked players on their board

[BigAl2526]

I see no differentiation based on specific DT position.  3 techs (which comprise almost all listed players on both lists) are almost always going to have the better stats and more speed, but the presence of a big strong 1 tech helps a lot of that statistical production on the part of the 3 techs happen.  There is no stat for tying up blockers and drawing double teams. 

 

It's no secret, I've been drumming for a 1 tech in the draft.  I the lists that the OP compiled, I think Farmer, West, Harmon and Tyliek all have 1 tech potential, Tyliek especially.  Only West was primarily a NT in college, and that was in a 3-4 defense.  I understand he switched to 3 tech in a 4-3.  West and Tyliek both have short arms, which is a negative, though some players have overcome that disadvantage.

Edited 19 hours ago by BigAl2526

[Allen2Moulds]

One metric that I've always liked, is the breakout year stuff. It makes sense to me that a guy that has a breakout year at 19 or 20 years old, has a little more upside than someone that didn't breakout until they 21 or 22. Like the Jamar Chase's of the world. Those guys seem to transition much better, a d quicker in the NFL. If it took you 4 years to breakout in College, often times, you're out of the NFL by then. Too much pressure on coaches to win right away. 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, nosejob said:

What's with the inconsistency concern? Kinda concerning.

I'm not that great at diagnosing plays but obviously like most players he might play to his strengths causing him to get out of position or controlled by an Olineman. He's not perfect by any means but the only recent DT I could say was is Suh and he was rare. 

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, LEBills said:

Sorry if the title is a bit misleading. This is more of a focus on which players have the most favorable pre-draft backgrounds to becoming great players than us drafting a ton of DTs. 

 

As it relates to the Bills roster construction, in 2024 and 2023 they had 6 DTs play at least 7 games each year. In 2022, that was only 4. 
 

Imo, the only DTs guaranteed a spot are Ed and Carter. Ogunjobi and especially Jones have money tied up in them but are cutable if needed. So Id say they can draft and retain 2 DTs pretty easily especially if they keep 5 on the roster.

 

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Exactly,  I see posts like this all the time, the Bills should draft/sign draft several  (fill in the position blank)  There has to be an actual roster spot open for that player.  It's different too if a team is rebuilding, having 2 or 3 rookies in a position group is OK as in a couple years  maybe half of them turn out to be good.  But for a team in a win now mode , that likely doesn't improve the roster for 2025.

 

Also add to that rookies take extra effort to develop.  In todays NFL there's very limited practice time allowed and teams can't just saw, we'll spend an extra couple practice hours with the rookie as it's not allowed.  It's the same reason why very few backup QB's hold for kicks these days as don't want to take away his limited time to work with the QB's.  For similar reasons, when companies hire apprentices, unless it's a very large company, they usually only hire one until that person is trained.  Same here, teams are better off drafting one and maybe a 2nd with a very low pick that you can be placed on PS and not likely to be poached by another team.

 

Agree too unless they are ready to give up on Carter, not bringing in another 3T. Just yesterday read an article too that commented that one game Carter played as the 1T and did OK so the team may view him as a potential backup in both positions.  Not likely to give up on a fairly high draft pick after only one season either.

Exactly one of the reasons I prefer we trade up to get the right guy.  I get the whole 'the more lotto tickets you have" thing, but we g2 get this right.  Cutting Objo would be brutal.  I hate the idea of giving up on a 3rd rd'er just last year, who had a pretty major injury.  If they really dont believe in him I get it, and can accept it, but doesnt seem like a Bills move with this FO.

[Special K]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I see so many posts like this - saying that the Bills should draft several DTs. But not a single one of them explains where on the roster they’re going to fit. The Bills have always carried either 4 or 5 DTs on the 53. As of now we have Jones, Oliver, Carter and O-Gun (after game 6) that will all make the team. Logue will probably be a PS player. Hoecht has also dropped inside, but he’s out until Game 7 too. To me that leaves open a single spot at 1 Tech and a single PS spot - or two at most if they carry two there and Logue gets beat out. The only other possibility is that they’re already giving up on Carter and he gets replaced. He did nothing last season so that probably isn’t zero. So my plan would be a 1 tech on day one or two and another developmental 1 tech in a late round. I also see no issue with one 3 Tech if they aren’t comfortable with Carter, but that has to be with the understanding that either the rookie or Carter won’t make the 53. 

 

DaQuan Jones is a candidate to be cut after the Draft if they draft his replacement, Larry O is one a 1 year contract, and thanks to his suspension, could amount to nothing more than insurance if someone else gets hurt.....having those two guys on the roster should not prohibit the Bills from drafting multiple talented DT's in a draft stacked with DT talent, IMO.

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I see so many posts like this - saying that the Bills should draft several DTs. But not a single one of them explains where on the roster they’re going to fit. The Bills have always carried either 4 or 5 DTs on the 53. As of now we have Jones, Oliver, Carter and O-Gun (after game 6) that will all make the team. Logue will probably be a PS player. Hoecht has also dropped inside, but he’s out until Game 7 too. To me that leaves open a single spot at 1 Tech and a single PS spot - or two at most if they carry two there and Logue gets beat out. The only other possibility is that they’re already giving up on Carter and he gets replaced. He did nothing last season so that probably isn’t zero. So my plan would be a 1 tech on day one or two and another developmental 1 tech in a late round. I also see no issue with one 3 Tech if they aren’t comfortable with Carter, but that has to be with the understanding that either the rookie or Carter won’t make the 53. 

McDermott all but said they need a change in philosophy and addressed getting a more powerful guy at 1 tech.  Whomever we draft will be expected to make an impact next to Oliver almost immediately. 

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

DaQuan Jones is a candidate to be cut after the Draft if they draft his replacement, Larry O is one a 1 year contract, and thanks to his suspension, could amount to nothing more than insurance if someone else gets hurt.....having those two guys on the roster should not prohibit the Bills from drafting multiple talented DT's in a draft stacked with DT talent, IMO.

 

I would think that if it were to happen, Jones would not be released until after week 6. Still, if your plan is O-Gun plus a rookie then that rookie better be phenomenal because if you think Jones is washed, then you’re going to hate seeing O-Gun on the field. If you’re thinking we’re getting rid of Jones and O-Gun and going with two rookies at 1 tech, then you’re not living in reality. That would be pure maleficence by the Bills.

[Special K]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I would think that if it were to happen, Jones would not be released until after week 6. Still, if your plan is O-Gun plus a rookie then that rookie better be phenomenal because if you think Jones is washed, then you’re going to hate seeing O-Gun on the field. If you’re thinking we’re getting rid of Jones and O-Gun and going with two rookies at 1 tech, then you’re not living in reality. That would be pure maleficence by the Bills.

I'm just saying that the Bills will not be going into this draft saying "We don't need to draft any DT'S because we have Jones and O-gun on our roster." That would be malpractice.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

I'm just saying that the Bills will not be going into this draft saying "We don't need to draft any DT'S because we have Jones and O-gun on our roster." That would be malpractice.

I don’t think anyone is saying that. 

[Special K]

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t think anyone is saying that. 

I don't want to make it a big thing, but you might want to re-read the first two sentences of your original post........

 

You basically said "I don't understand why people want to draft multiple DT's when we already have these guys on the roster."

[Bills aPHILLYate]

29 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t think anyone is saying that. 

 

I think your initial response came off as it's gonna be a numbers game and thus there wasn't much justification for doubling down on DT.

 

Personally I am all for at least 6 defensive players being selected; of which 2 being DT (more specifically a 1T)

 

We need massive upgrades there and nobody on the roster currently makes me feel that we can ignore that position or not continue to invest in it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

I don't want to make it a big thing, but you might want to re-read the first two sentences of your original post........

 

You basically said "I don't understand why people want to draft multiple DT's when we already have these guys on the roster."

Can you understand the difference between drafting one, two or even three DTs (or drafting seven) and drafting none? It seems like you can't. 

1 hour ago, Bills aPHILLYate said:

 

I think your initial response came off as it's gonna be a numbers game and thus there wasn't much justification for doubling down on DT.

 

Personally I am all for at least 6 defensive players being selected; of which 2 being DT (more specifically a 1T)

 

We need massive upgrades there and nobody on the roster currently makes me feel that we can ignore that position or not continue to invest in it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I took care to lay out how drafting one, two or even three DTs would have to work.  

Edited 15 hours ago by BarleyNY

[Special K]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Can you understand the difference between drafting one, two or even three DTs (or drafting seven) and drafting none? It seems like you can't. 

 

I took care to lay out how drafting one, two or even three DTs would have to work.  

 

Then I took care to lay out the case of how and why the Bills should draft 1 or 2 DT's in this draft......so what's your point??

 

You said you didn't understand how people could advocate for the Bills to take multiple DT's in this draft, and then I tried to help you understand my viewpoint on how it can and should be done.

 

 I can assure you I know the difference between the numbers 1, 2, and 7.

 

We actually agree that they should take a 1T early and 1 3T. I think we just disagree on the importance of DaQuan Jones and Larry O.......I don't think that difference is worth making it into a big deal.

Edited 10 hours ago by Special K

[machine gun kelly]

We only really need 6-7 picks as we still have depth.  So, for me in the 1st, and 2 2nds, in whatever order the most talented position, we shoot for a DT, CB, and speed WR who creates separation.  We bundle maybe our 24ths to see if we can get one 3rd.  Then a DE and in the later picks we bundle again to keep smaller jumps up for a S.  What we don’t need is an O Lineman, or RB.  Let Cook play out his last year, then next year draft one and franchise Cook for another year.  That’s 2 yrs., and let Cook test the market.  Beane would’ve an idiot to extend him to an exorbitant contract.  Every couple of years we use one draft pick on a RB, and never extend them.  Guys like Barkley don’t grow on trees.