Return of the Tre! (Tre White signs with the Bills)

[Mister Defense]

7 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yeah we do see it differently.  in terms of player ability I have Benford > Johnson >>>> Rapp > Bishop. 

 

We don't have anyone penciled in for CB2 but we have top 10 players at CB1 and nickel.  Whereas with safety we dont and likely will not have a top 10 player (Bishop's ascension and certain draft scenarios outstanding).  I have way more confidence in the CB room than I do in the safety room and I think the safety room was more of the cause for the poor pass defense than the CB room (ask yourself which of these rooms had more player turnover). 

 

I think the difference in the e v a l is that you want hope.  That hope is there for CB with the minimal activity done (only players with minimal upside); whereas safety has a young early round pick and some new players also with upside.  However, I evaluate based on what I have seen which is top 10 players at 2/3 starting CB spots and not good play by Bishop and average play by Rapp.

 

I'll take it that you as well think the contract for Benford was a significant overpay and will hold the team back (the almost bare at CB comment is my basis)?  

 

Hmm... I do agree with the first bold above, that Benford and Johnson are better, more proven, than the combo of Rapp and Bishop. Hard for anyone to argue the other side of that, I think.    (It will likely be a very good year for the defense if that debate is more relevant in mid season or at the end of it.)

 

The problem with that equation is that there are 3 starting cornerbacks on every NFL team, so you are leaving out part of the equation.  But there is no one to really place in there, no starting caliber 2nd outside corner on the team now.  If you put that in the equation, White or Jackson or Ingram, or a '?', you would need to reverse the 'greater than' sign.

 

The reality is that on a team only two safeties usually play, just like two outside corners are almost always on the field.  And, like I said, believe, the Bills probably have two viable starting NFL safeties.  And decent depth as well. But the Bills, to me, may simply not even have a 2nd starting caliber outside corner on the team right now,  which is a player who will almost always need to be on the field.  With only 11 players per team, not having a viable starting CB would likely be very difficult to overcome, a huge risk as the Bills play Burrows, Thomas, Mahomes, Tua, May, Hurtz, Mayfield, Stroud, Young...

 

That is one player, one quality starter, the Bills cannot afford to neglect--doing so could be enough to really undermine the team next year.

 

And nope, not sure why you think I would be opposed to Benford's contract. I I was very pleased the night I found out he was signed and thought the Bills got a good deal, was expecting maybe a 20 million+ per year deal. The waste I am concerned about at the position has to do with the signing of the warm bodies only, someone like White, who likely could have been had for the vet minimum, or not at all. I would much rather have one better player than what we now have in White and Jackson, two players I greatly admired and appreciated in their previous stints with the Bills. 

 

In any case, we both agree that the Bills need secondary help. You or I may be irritated if the position we want more is not addressed early in the draft, but it seems both of us will be really concerned if that position is is not addressed at all. And if we are both upset, as neither position was addressed early, then I think the Bills' likely will not improve much in their pass defense.

 

A few days until we get some answers!

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Mister Defense

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Hmm... I do agree with the first bold above, that Benford and Johnson are better, more proven, than the combo of Rapp and Bishop. Hard for anyone to argue the other side of that, I think.    (It will likely be a very good year for the defense if that debate is more relevant in mid season or at the end of it.)

 

The problem with that equation is that there are 3 starting cornerbacks on every NFL team, so you are leaving out part of the equation.  But there is no one to really place in there, no starting caliber 2nd outside corner on the team now.  If you put that in the equation, White or Jackson or Ingram, or a '?', you would need to reverse the 'greater than' sign.

 

The reality is that on a team only two safeties usually play, just like two outside corners are almost always on the field.  And, like I said, believe, the Bills probably have two viable starting NFL safeties.  And decent depth as well. But the Bills, to me, may simply not even have a 2nd starting caliber outside corner on the team right now,  which is a player who will almost always need to be on the field.  With only 11 players per team, not having a viable starting CB would likely be very difficult to overcome, a huge risk as the Bills play Burrows, Thomas, Mahomes, Tua, May, Hurtz, Mayfield, Stroud, Young...

 

That is one player, one quality starter, the Bills cannot afford to neglect--doing so could be enough to really undermine the team next year.

 

And nope, not sure why you think I would be opposed to Benford's contract. I I was very pleased the night I found out he was signed and thought the Bills got a good deal, was expecting maybe a 20 million+ per year deal. The waste I am concerned about at the position has to do with the signing of the warm bodies only, someone like White, who likely could have been had for the vet minimum, or not at all. I would much rather have one better player than what we now have in White and Jackson, two players I greatly admired and appreciated in their previous stints with the Bills. 

 

In any case, we both agree that the Bills need secondary help. You or I may be irritated if the position we want more is not addressed early in the draft, but it seems both of us will be really concerned if that position is is not addressed at all. And if we are both upset, as neither position was addressed early, then I think the Bills' likely will not improve much in their pass defense.

 

A few days until we get some answers!

 

 

 

K. Then not almost bare. A really good player (better than either safety) to start with. I think the combo of Benford and whomever (including Tre) will likely be better than safety. You don’t have to agree with that but I understand your original the cupboard is almost bare to be hyperbolic.  Agree we’re seeing it similar. I might have confused you with the banana dude re: benford contract.
 

Also I think you’re reading too much into tres contract. I would be shocked if his cap hit was 6 mil. I would expect his cap hit to be vet minimum and he has a ton of not likely to earned incentives. If that’s the case he’s essentially vet minimum which means it didn’t and isn’t keeping us from signing one good player. 

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

The reality is that on a team only two safeties usually play, just like two outside corners are almost always on the field.  And, like I said, believe, the Bills probably have two viable starting NFL safeties.  And decent depth as well. But the Bills, to me, may simply not even have a 2nd starting caliber outside corner on the team right now,  which is a player who will almost always need to be on the field.  With only 11 players per team, not having a viable starting CB would likely be very difficult to overcome, a huge risk as the Bills play Burrows, Thomas, Mahomes, Tua, May, Hurtz, Mayfield, Stroud, Young...

 

Watch out for Chase Young.  I'm more worried about Lamar than Thomas? 

 

I do agree that not trying to upgrade at CB2 is a huge mistake though.  Plus, as good as Benford played last year he wasn't quite as good as prime Tre White.  The Bills used to get away with Levi Wallace at outside CB2 because of the safety tandem of Hoyer and Poyd along with Trey White's all pro play opposite him.  We don't have that anymore.  It was painfully obvious down the stretch last year as Douglas struggled and high powered offenses like the Dolphins (2nd match up), Rams, Lions, and ultimately the Chiefs in the playoffs.  Finishing 27th on defense on opponents 3rd down conversion % is just a lack of talent on the D-line and secondary.  If the Bills took a defender with every pick in this draft I'd be fine with it.  What's the glaring weakness on our offense?  A TE3?