Return of the Tre! (Tre White signs with the Bills)

[BananaB]

27 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Almost bare?!!! Benford and Johnson are both top 5-10 at their position.  I think we’re starting from a really good spot at this position, as opposed to safety (no top 10 players) and pass rush (no top 10 players).  Pass defense is more than just CBs and safeties def took a step back from previous years.  That seems like a better reason for why the team had poor pass defense rather than just saying we have nothing at CB.  

Johnson is the only top 10 player at his position on our D. Milano was but not sure he is now. Benford is overrated on this board and is injured quite a bit, especially come playoff time when you need him both.

[Mister Defense]

48 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Almost bare?!!! Benford and Johnson are both top 5-10 at their position.  I think were starting from a really good spot at this position, as opposed to safety (no top 10 players) and pass rush (no top 10 players).  Pass defense is more than just CBs and safeties def took a step back from previous years.  That seems like a better reason for why the team had poor pass defense rather than just saying we have nothing at CB.  

 

yes, almost bare.

 

They were not good last year, had a poor pass defense, and now are missing their other starter, Douglas.

 

They had Taron Johnson and Benford last year, but that clearly was not enough, as we all saw.  The great offense saved the day, the year, though the defense had its moments.

 

Shoot, with Dane Jackon and Tre White, the Bills may not even have viable back ups if a starter goes down, let alone a quality starter on the outside next to Benford.

 

Adding two lukewarm bodies, backups at best, to me means the cupboard at cornerback is almost empty still.  You'll see Beford and Johnson when you open it, but then have to look way in the back for Jackson or White, the dust covered options, with expiration dates about to expire. Or expired already.

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:20 PM by Mister Defense

[YattaOkasan]

56 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

yes, almost bare.

 

They were not good last year, had a poor pass defense, and now are missing their other starter, Douglas.

 

They had Taron Johnson and Benford last year, but that clearly was not enough, as we all saw.  The great offense saved the day, the year, though the defense had its moments.

 

Shoot, with Dane Jackon and Tre White, the Bills may not even have viable back ups if a starter goes down, let alone a quality starter on the outside next to Benford.

 

Adding two lukewarm bodies, backups at best, to me means the cupboard at cornerback is almost empty still.  You'll see Beford and Johnson when you open it, but then have to look way in the back for Jackson or White, the dust covered options, with expiration dates about to expire. Or expired already.

 

 

But my point is your focus is in the wrong spot. If you were upset we haven’t don’t have anything at safety I would get it. Saying we have almost nothing at CB is ignoring that our CB1 is top 10 and our nickel is also top 5.  
 

Also asking for quality starters as backups is not really achievable unless they are on rookie deals (else they would have contracts with other teams).

 

I don’t disagree with your concerns about the pass defense but your point that we have almost nothing at CB is missing the mark.  If anything we are almost bare at safety and pass rush.  

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Johnson is the only top 10 player at his position on our D. Milano was but not sure he is now. Benford is overrated on this board and is injured quite a bit, especially come playoff time when you need him both.

So 19 mil was too much for CB in your opinion?  Would love to hear your list of 10 better CBs. 

Edited Monday at 04:11 PM by YattaOkasan

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Johnson is the only top 10 player at his position on our D. Milano was but not sure he is now. Benford is overrated on this board and is injured quite a bit, especially come playoff time when you need him both.

Benford is rated properly here and underrated when it comes to league recognition.  I haven't heard anybody who I trust that watches tape tell me that Benford wasn't a top 10 CB last season.

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Johnson is the only top 10 player at his position on our D. Milano was but not sure he is now. Benford is overrated on this board and is injured quite a bit, especially come playoff time when you need him both.

 

 

Claiming Benford is overrated is ludicrous. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/cb-sports-analytics-site-lists-christian-benford-top-nfl-player-position-2024

 

There are many who say he is a league top 5 CB.

 

 

 

[Simon]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Benford is rated properly here and underrated when it comes to league recognition.  I haven't heard anybody who I trust that watches tape tell me that Benford wasn't a top 10 CB last season.

 

It all makes more sense when you realize that it's coming from the perspective of an utterly miserable human being who absolutely despises the Bills as much as anybody in this forum. 🤷‍♂️

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It all makes more sense when you realize that it's coming from the perspective of an utterly miserable human being who absolutely despises the Bills as much as anybody in this forum. 🤷‍♂️

Winnie the Pooh wouldn't be the same without Eeyore. 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Winnie the Pooh wouldn't be the same without Eeyore. 

 

Sure he would; possibly even happier.

[Mister Defense]

51 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

But my point is your focus is in the wrong spot. If you were upset we haven’t don’t have anything at safety I would get it. Saying we have almost nothing at CB is ignoring that our CB1 is top 10 and our nickel is also top 5.  
 

Also asking for quality starters as backups is not really achievable unless they are on rookie deals (else they would have contracts with other teams).

 

I don’t disagree with your concerns about the pass defense but your point that we have almost nothing at CB is missing the mark.  If anything we are almost bare at safety and pass rush.  

So 19 mil was too much for CB in your opinion?  Would love to hear your list of 10 better CBs. 

 

Interesting how we could see the status of the two current cornerback and safety positions so differently... though I am not overly confident in the safeties.

 

I am happy that Bishop will likely replace Hamlin as a starting safety this year, as he has much more upside (we hope) and athleticism to take him to a higher level.  I think that improves safety play, maybe substantially, in itself.  (Of course, we don't know how Bishop will play as a full time starter, but should have a good feel for that by mid-season.)

 

And the signing of Darrick Forrest, a recent starter at safety, offers some reputable back up juice if Bishop does not do well or in case of injury.

 

While the re-signing of Hamlin, as a backup, hopefully, also gives them more more depth at safety too.

 

On the other hand, right now I see no viable 2nd starter at the 2nd outside CB position, with the draft coming in three days. And no backup I am confident can come in for a game or two or more, and do the job. I think that sums up why I think the CB position is a much bigger need, a vital need, while safety is not.

 

During the first two days of the draft we may find out which position the Bills think is more of a need right now.  I am guessing a corner early and maybe a safety late, but I read they had not brought in any safeties for the 30 player visits.  I think an excellent one would have to be available, a player surprisingly available in the first or second rounds, for them to grab one then.

 

 

Edited Monday at 05:05 PM by Mister Defense

[Dillenger4]

14 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Interesting how we could see the status of the two current cornerback and safety positions so differently... though I am not overly confident in the safeties.

 

I am happy that Bishop will likely replace Hamlin as a starting safety this year, as he has much more upside (we hope) and athleticism to take him to a higher level.  I think that improves safety play, maybe substantially, in itself.  (Of course, we don't know how Bishop will play as a full time starter, but should have a good feel for that by mid-season.)

 

And the signing of Darrick Forrest, a recent starter at safety, offers some reputable back up juice if Bishop does not do well or in case of injury.

 

While the re-signing of Hamlin, as a backup, hopefully, also gives them more more depth at safety too.

 

On the other hand, right now I see no viable 2nd starter at the 2nd outside CB position, with the draft coming in three days. And no backup I am confident can come in for a game or two or more, and do the job. I think that sums up why I think the CB position is a much bigger need, a vital need, while safety is not.

 

During the first two days of the draft we may find out which position the Bills think is more of a need right now.  I am guessing a corner early and maybe a safety late, but I read they had not brought in any safeties for the 30 player visits.  I think an excellent one would have to be available, a player surprisingly available in the first or second rounds, for them to grab one then.

 

 

I agree 100%. We have a NEED at CB no doubt. Our position at Safety is good: Rapp is above average, and between Forrest/Bishop/Hamlin we have depth and good players.

Our D line is better on paper with additions of Bosa/Heicht (sp)/Ogun and Carter returning to health. Although 6 weeks of suspension hurts, we will be focusing on CB.

 

If we can shutdown that opposition passing game substantially for once - our D line can get some extra time to do their work.

 

CB in round 1 is more than essential for The Bills. My peers telling me he's ready with guns loaded to move up for one. Gonna be an exciting draft for us Bills fans.

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Interesting how we could see the status of the two current cornerback and safety positions so differently... though I am not overly confident in the safeties.

 

I am happy that Bishop will likely replace Hamlin as a starting safety this year, as he has much more upside (we hope) and athleticism to take him to a higher level.  I think that improves safety play, maybe substantially, in itself.  (Of course, we don't know how Bishop will play as a full time starter, but should have a good feel for that by mid-season.)

 

And the signing of Darrick Forrest, a recent starter at safety, offers some reputable back up juice if Bishop does not do well or in case of injury.

 

While the re-signing of Hamlin, as a backup, hopefully, also gives them more more depth at safety too.

 

On the other hand, right now I see no viable 2nd starter at the 2nd outside CB position, with the draft coming in three days. And no backup I am confident can come in for a game or two or more, and do the job. I think that sums up why I think the CB position is a much bigger need, a vital need, while safety is not.

 

During the first two days of the draft we may find out which position the Bills think is more of a need right now.  I am guessing a corner early and maybe a safety late, but I read they had not brought in any safeties for the 30 player visits.  I think an excellent one would have to be available, a player surprisingly available in the first or second rounds, for them to grab one then.

 

 

Yeah we do see it differently.  in terms of player ability I have Benford > Johnson >>>> Rapp > Bishop. 

 

We don't have anyone penciled in for CB2 but we have top 10 players at CB1 and nickel.  Whereas with safety we dont and likely will not have a top 10 player (Bishop's ascension and certain draft scenarios outstanding).  I have way more confidence in the CB room than I do in the safety room and I think the safety room was more of the cause for the poor pass defense than the CB room (ask yourself which of these rooms had more player turnover). 

 

I think the difference in the e v a l is that you want hope.  That hope is there for CB with the minimal activity done (only players with minimal upside); whereas safety has a young early round pick and some new players also with upside.  However, I evaluate based on what I have seen which is top 10 players at 2/3 starting CB spots and not good play by Bishop and average play by Rapp.

 

I'll take it that you as well think the contract for Benford was a significant overpay and will hold the team back (the almost bare at CB comment is my basis)?  

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

I agree 100%. We have a NEED at CB no doubt. Our position at Safety is good: Rapp is above average, and between Forrest/Bishop/Hamlin we have depth and good players.

Our D line is better on paper with additions of Bosa/Heicht (sp)/Ogun and Carter returning to health. Although 6 weeks of suspension hurts, we will be focusing on CB.

 

If we can shutdown that opposition passing game substantially for once - our D line can get some extra time to do their work.

 

CB in round 1 is more than essential for The Bills. My peers telling me he's ready with guns loaded to move up for one. Gonna be an exciting draft for us Bills fans.

Rapp had a coverage grade of 109.  I am not ready to call him above average.  I like his contract but on the field he is pretty average to me at this point.  

[Maine-iac]

Benford and Johnson both had QB ratings of 90 or less when thrown at.  Bishop, Rapp, Hamlin, Lewis, and Douglas all had QB ratings well over 100 when thrown at.  Interesting note is that Ingram only gave up a QB rating of 51.6 when thrown at in his limited playing time.

[YattaOkasan]

7 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Benford and Johnson both had QB ratings of 90 or less when thrown at.  Bishop, Rapp, Hamlin, Lewis, and Douglas all had QB ratings well over 100 when thrown at.  Interesting note is that Ingram only gave up a QB rating of 51.6 when thrown at in his limited playing time.

That first Miami game really helped Ingram but yes I saw the same things from pro football reference. 

[Warriorspikes51]

12 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Benford and Johnson both had QB ratings of 90 or less when thrown at.  Bishop, Rapp, Hamlin, Lewis, and Douglas all had QB ratings well over 100 when thrown at.  Interesting note is that Ingram only gave up a QB rating of 51.6 when thrown at in his limited playing time.

 

every day I throw my hands up and ask why Ingram didn't play over Elam in KC.....or for that matter over Douglas after how he performed in Miami

 

what am I missing?!

with this in mind....the CB room is in decent shape today.

 

Benford

Tre White
Ingram

Dane Jackson

Taron
Cam Lewis 

Edited Monday at 07:40 PM by Warriorspikes51

[PrimeTime101]

38 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

every day I throw my hands up and ask why Ingram didn't play over Elam in KC.....or for that matter over Douglas after how he performed in Miami

 

what am I missing?!

with this in mind....the CB room is in decent shape today.

 

Benford

Tre White
Ingram

Dane Jackson

Taron
Cam Lewis 

Agree and the fact that even if we wait early round 2 to get another CB... If whoever that is turns out being decent.. then we in great shape. 

 

In Short.

No we do not need a round 1 CB. 

No worries on reaching for a CB. 

 

Tre White at 70% is better than anything we had at #2 last year. 

[Chandler#81]

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

every day I throw my hands up and ask why Ingram didn't play over Elam in KC.....or for that matter over Douglas after how he performed in Miami

 

what am I missing?!

with this in mind....the CB room is in decent shape today.

 

Benford

Tre White
Ingram

Dane Jackson

Taron
Cam Lewis 

He must have looked realllyyy bad in practice. McD knows what he is doing when it comes to CB's. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

He must have looked realllyyy bad in practice. McD knows what he is doing when it comes to CB's. 

 

Take out the second half blowout of the Jets week 17 and the Patriots game week 18 and almost all his snaps came inside at nickel or dime. I think the Bills see him as a break class in case of emergency option only outside. They view him as a nickel/dime back. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Benford

Tre White
Ingram

Dane Jackson

Taron
Cam Lewis 

Add a rookie CB and I think either Ingram or Jackson gets cut.