Is Cook worth it?

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, Billsfed1 said:

Those first few games to me are fairly dicey.

 

Still think he’s a hell of a back and would love to have him, but if he really makes his intentions clear…does he get booed out of Buffalo?

 

When he undoubtedly makes a big play in the opener…does he get booed?

 

Hollins and Cook were the 2 guys not named Allen that really gave us something against the Chiefs.

IMO he deserves his spot if he’ll behave.

 

Is he worth the headache?

 

How many more months years centuries 'til the draft?

 

What exactly headache has Cook been?  He wants to be paid.  Good for him.  I want a pony.

 

He's under contract next season.  He has a choice, play here or don't play.

[Neo]

One (more) and done.   Best wishes.

[nosejob]

9 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

With our recent drafting, I'd rather keep Cook if offered a 2nd (which would never happen).

 

All this speculation from people is crazy.  Cook isn't going to hold out/hold in, he'll ball out this year for a major payday in 2026+.  Bills get the benefit of a motivated/very talented player and can re visit the option of extending him next offseason.

 

I've said this many times, but if I'm Beane I'm offering a 3 year extension (thru 2028) for $26m gtd and potential for $12-$14m aav.  That's going to be the going rate for Cook, at a minimum, come next offseason.  Guys like Gibbs coming up for contract soon, we will see 4-5 RBs making premier money---- Cook is in that top echelon (top 5 RBs) if people want to admit it or not, given his age and low mileage, and significant improvement year to year --- with others in that top group aging out in 2-3 years max.

 

 

I don't wanna lose Cook. I think this deal would be perfect.

[Mister Defense]

11 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

You’re pretty adamant about who’s elite. Do you think McCaffrey or Barkley are elite? If you compare their first 3years,,Cook is more productive and more available. He is a beast in the red zone scoring 16 TDs. He’s better than Barkley in the receiving game and he is 3 years younger than both Barkley and McCaffrey. He’s done everything asked of him and who says he has to be on the field on 3rd down when we have the best 3rd down back in football in Ty Johnson. Cook gets it done with a minimum amount of carries. Cook can’t be responsible for Brady’s mindless decisions not to put him in on our last few series against KC. Look at that TD he scored on 4th down against KC. That was elite. Just remember his request for 15 million starts a negotiation and if Beane decided to resign him now he probably could get him for 42 or 43 for 3 years. I hear a lot of “not being elite”, but he’s as good as anybody in the AFC and gets better every year. Henry is great but disappeared when it counted most. You talk about blocking, Josh got sacked 8 times all year and was the MVP. Cook is a matchup nightmare out of the backfield and had over 400 yds receiving.  With Barkley’s deal great backs will be getting more than in previous years, no one knows the rookie that we craft will be as productive or injury free as Cook. 

God forbid he Chiefs or Bengals get him. 

 

A great post on Cook and his value now and going forward.

 

It is so different than the vast majority of the 'let him walk' posts by those not dealing with facts, but only in the mindless cliches that running backs like Cook are a dime a dozen, very easy to replace, you should never pay a running back, how great of running back group there is in this draft, and that Cook is just good, not special etcetera.

 

James Cook was extremely under utilized last year, should have been targeted much more as a receiver and given more carries in many of the games.  This year the Bills should not make that same mistake.

 

Beane should do the right thing for the Bills, and for Josh Allen, and get him signed.  He throws way too much money at some players who don't deserve it--see Knox, see the two d ends who are already suspended for the first 6 games of this year, and many other players who've added almost nothing to the Bills.  If he signs him now he will get a tremendous bargain, as players like James Cook will likely be in the $20+ million range next off season. 

 

If the Bills get rid of Cook it will be almost as bad as getting rid of Marshawn Lynch, the worst move by the Bills this century and maybe ever.  But go back and read the posts on that trade--some of the same reasons were used for supporting that as there are now for getting rid of Cook. And the same 'logic and some of the same posters, who definitely do not learn from their mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure why this is complicated to so many on here. You don’t pay players based on their league-wide talent level. You pay them based on their value to YOUR team. So if the Bills decide they’re going to evolve the offense into one that features Cook, then sure…pay him like a Top Five RB. But, if the offense is going to remain Allen-centric then you pay Cook like the 16th ranked RB that he’s been. Period! 

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, Logic said:

 And again, I'm maybe willing to give a big contract to a timeshare guy IF he's a great pass catcher and third down back, but Cook is neither.

I understand the perspective of people that want to pay him, I suppose. But me? I just happen to think that so long as the o-line remains strong, we can replace his production with a Ray Davis, Ty Johnson, and a draft pick. Running back is an extremely replaceable position, and I don't see anything elite or standout enough about Cook's game to indicate to me that he's worth top five money or is a top five back.

 

Cook is an excellent pass catcher, in fact his receiving ability was one of the main reasons the Bills wanted him so badly. Last season he caught 32 of his 38 passes and this year, as the Bills wake up and use him more as a receiver, he will catch many more.

 

It is a  silly worn out  illogical cliche that running backs are "an extremely replaceable position". Insert wide receiver, guard, tight end, cornerback..... into that sentence and it would be just as nonsensical and just as impossible to support with actual evidence. Just because some uninformed 'analysts' started saying that a few years ago does not mean it is true.

 

Jame Cook has elite speed, elusiveness, vision, and in the last two years has transformed himself physically  into someone who can really run with power and break tackles.  Hence his 18 touchdowns last year.  And many of them were after first contact.  He is an elite back in many ways, one of the top backs in the league and will just get better in the next few years.

 

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Um.

 

Cook has 3500 yards and 27 TDs in his first 3 years.

 

In McCaffrey’s first 3 years, he had 5400 yards and 39 TDs.

 

So besides the difference in 1900 yards and 12 TD’s, no

You can’t just gag up wild stats out of your rear end and expect them to fly. He had under  3000 yds and 24 TDs in his first 3 years and in years 4 and 5 under 700 yds total with 6 TDs. Sorry, look it up.

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

A great post on Cook and his value now and going forward.

 

It is so different than the vast majority of the 'let him walk' posts by those not dealing with facts, but only in the mindless cliches that running backs like Cook are a dime a dozen, very easy to replace, you should never pay a running back, how great of running back group there is in this draft, and that Cook is just good, not special etcetera.

 

James Cook was extremely under utilized last year, should have been targeted much more as a receiver and given more carries in many of the games.  This year the Bills should not make that same mistake.

 

Beane should do the right thing for the Bills, and for Josh Allen, and get him signed.  He throws way too much money at some players who don't deserve it--see Knox, see the two d ends who are already suspended for the first 6 games of this year, and many other players who've added almost nothing to the Bills.  If he signs him now he will get a tremendous bargain, as players like James Cook will likely be in the $20+ million range next off season. 

 

If the Bills get rid of Cook it will be almost as bad as getting rid of Marshawn Lynch, the worst move by the Bills this century and maybe ever.  But go back and read the posts on that trade--some of the same reasons were used for supporting that as there are now for getting rid of Cook. And the same 'logic and some of the same posters, who definitely do not learn from their mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think there’s a preconceived bias against RBs getting a second contract, or are these knee jerk disparaging claims a reaction to him wanting to get paid in an environment of everyone else being prioritized. My prediction is he has a great year and walks because other teams will see him putting over the top. I’m a little disappointed in Josh, after getting paid, not endorsing the 2nd contract for Cook. He knows what Cook meant to that offense.

[T master]

22 hours ago, Billsfed1 said:

Those first few games to me are fairly dicey.

 

Still think he’s a hell of a back and would love to have him, but if he really makes his intentions clear…does he get booed out of Buffalo?

 

When he undoubtedly makes a big play in the opener…does he get booed?

 

Hollins and Cook were the 2 guys not named Allen that really gave us something against the Chiefs.

IMO he deserves his spot if he’ll behave.

 

Is he worth the headache?

 

I have always thought no matter what the so called "experts" say the running back can and is a very important piece to a successful offense ! I still believe that a running back needs more carries to get into the game and a RB by comity can be counter productive to some backs because they can't get in to a rhythm of the game .

 

Use to be a RB had to get so many carries to get going, to get a feel for how the opposition was doing things as far as rush lanes and how their O line was opening holes for them . So like the Bills they had 3 backs but mostly only used 2 which I think helped our guys get more of a feel like back when Thurman & Kenny use to be the RB's for the Bills .

 

We now have a third just incase someone gets dinged or needs a blow or just a change of pace . But I think that Jimbo should be paid accordingly, maybe not quite as much as he wants but he should get paid I'm just not sure if Beane and company will see it in the same light when it comes to signing the check.

 

Maybe next year if Jimbo's consistency stays where it was last season to prove his worth but then we all know there will be THAT team if he chooses to try FA that will back up the truck like Philly did but Im not sure what Beane will do .

 

We know he likes to draft and keep his own and there should be even more money for the cap next year so we shall see . Jimbo is playing this season for his next contract so he better bring it no matter if it's with the Bills or a different team .

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

You can’t just gag up wild stats out of your rear end and expect them to fly. He had under  3000 yds and 24 TDs in his first 3 years and in years 4 and 5 under 700 yds total with 6 TDs. Sorry, look it up.

What

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaCh01.htm#2017-2019-sum:rushing_and_receiving

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CookJa01.htm#2022-2024-sum:rushing_and_receiving

 

The numbers are all right there lol.

Edited April 16 by FireChans

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Cook is an excellent pass catcher, in fact his receiving ability was one of the main reasons the Bills wanted him so badly. Last season he caught 32 of his 38 passes and this year, as the Bills wake up and use him more as a receiver, he will catch many more.

 

It is a  silly worn out  illogical cliche that running backs are "an extremely replaceable position". Insert wide receiver, guard, tight end, cornerback..... into that sentence and it would be just as nonsensical and just as impossible to support with actual evidence. Just because some uninformed 'analysts' started saying that a few years ago does not mean it is true.

 

Jame Cook has elite speed, elusiveness, vision, and in the last two years has transformed himself physically  into someone who can really run with power and break tackles.  Hence his 18 touchdowns last year.  And many of them were after first contact.  He is an elite back in many ways, one of the top backs in the league and will just get better in the next few years.

 

 

 

Agree with this take about Cook but 15 million per year is to much.  That's what makes this situation so frustrating - both of these positions are right.

 

 

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaCh01.htm#2017-2019-sum:rushing_and_receiving

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CookJa01.htm#2022-2024-sum:rushing_and_receiving

 

The numbers are all right there lol.

We were comparing the first three seasons, because Cook is only in the league 3 seasons.

[Logic]

11 hours ago, Cash said:

I mostly agree with you on Cook, but I think it’s worth pushing back on a couple things. First,the comps. Kyren Williams is close but I’d take Cook. Bucky Irving is a notch below IMO. Breece Hall is way overrated and I strongly prefer Cook there. And in their primes Taylor & Kamara? Sure. Actual age/injury situation? Nope.

 

The second thing: elite or standout aspects to Cook’s game. His combo of quickness, burst, speed, etc is unmatched on our roster now, and going back a while. He moves the needle on a lot of those stretch runs and sweeps, where he’s able to beat the defender to the corner and either get a nice gain or break off a huge run. Those same runs are often stuffed when the RB has just regular NFL speed. Cool is also (the only) home run hitter on our offense. He’s shown he’s capable of taking it to the house from anywhere if given the opportunity. A lot of his long TD runs the last couple years would’ve been 10-20 yard gains with just a “good” back. 
 

Add in that last year he showed both willingness and ability to be a goal line back and make tough runs between the tackles, and you’ve got a really interesting player. His pass blocking and dropsies keep him from being a truly elite player, but IMO he’s still a guy that moves the needle*. How much is that worth? Probably not elite or market-setting money, which is why I’m open to letting him walk (preferably via tag & trade or at least a comp pick). But I don’t think he’s as replaceable as you’re making it out. 
 

*I guess my player tiers are something like:

-Sucks/replacement level

-Good player but JAG

-Needle mover

-Difference maker/elite

Great post. Thanks.

I actually pretty much agree with you. That last paragraph, about him being a needle mover, but not truly elite hits right to the heart of it.

I ONLY want to give a second contract to a running back if he's elite. And if he's not elite, I'd still consider doing it if he's a big weapon in the passing game. I don't view Cook as either elite OR a big weapon in the passing game (if he was, I don't think they'd be giving so much receiving work to Ty Johnson nor re-sign him to the contract they just did).

So is he maybe better as a pure runner than I'm letting on? Perhaps. But I'm still not willing to concede that he's elite or a big time receiving weapon, and for that reason, I simply don't want to give him a second contract. And I should note: that's largely a philosophical stance on the running back position and team building in general, not a specific indictment of Cook as a player.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

We were comparing the first three seasons, because Cook is only in the league 3 seasons.

I compared the first 3 seasons for you.

 

Either you were unaware that McCaffrey caught 300 balls for an additional 2500 yards and 15 TD in those first 3 seasons or you ignored it.

 

Regardless, the difference between those two players production their first 3 is EXACTLY what I posted before. 

[Gregg]

It will be interesting to see what happens if Cook has a monster year in 2025. Something like 1,500 yards rushing with 15 or more rushing TD's. Add in 500 or more yards receiving with around 5 TD passes.  If he wants the big money put up the big numbers in 2025 and Beane will offer a better contract that he might like.

[Mister Defense]

1 hour ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Do you think there’s a preconceived bias against RBs getting a second contract, or are these knee jerk disparaging claims a reaction to him wanting to get paid in an environment of everyone else being prioritized. My prediction is he has a great year and walks because other teams will see him putting over the top. I’m a little disappointed in Josh, after getting paid, not endorsing the 2nd contract for Cook. He knows what Cook meant to that offense.

 

I was thinking the same exact thing about Josh.  He finally has the elite running back the Bills needed, someone who was extremely important in his first MVP year.  He should be more aggressive, either behind the scenes or out front, to get Cook taken care of for the next 3 or so years.  Josh says he loves Cook--time to show it rather than just say it. I think he will step up, if he has not yet done so, and be more aggressive. That is what leaders who win Super Bowls often do.

 

I  think the reason for the foolish knee jerk disparaging claims are just people repeating what others say, so for them it has become a reality. (It is very common in sports, but more frightening,  just as common in society, for the important things...) This despite the fact that I have never seen any solid or clear evidence of it.  Very telling.  But so easy to do the opposite and show how important high level running games and backs are to high caliber NFL teams.

 

[Einstein's Dog]

26 minutes ago, Gregg said:

It will be interesting to see what happens if Cook has a monster year in 2025. Something like 1,500 yards rushing with 15 or more rushing TD's. Add in 500 or more yards receiving with around 5 TD passes.  If he wants the big money put up the big numbers in 2025 and Beane will offer a better contract that he might like.

I think a big part of the problem is that Cook's team sees that there is no chance of the monster year happening in Buffalo.  The Bills like what they had, and have everyone back, for a semi-repeat of 2024.  The outlook for Cook with the Bills is nowhere near 2,000 total yards, nor 20TDs. 

 

Cook has never been a workhorse, bellcow RB and shouldn't be expecting to be paid as such without showing he can do it.  That is why I think he wants out of Buffalo. He could go to another team and play on the $5M contract as long as he got the opportunity to expand his role prior to hitting FA.

 

So, for the right team Cook is a great value.  They get a top ten, motivated workhorse RB for $5M.  Teams in need of an RB that miss out on Jeanty (and maybe Hampton) may really like the Cook option - teams like Dallas, Pitt, NYG.

[HamptonBillsfan]

28 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I was thinking the same exact thing about Josh.  He finally has the elite running back the Bills needed, someone who was extremely important in his first MVP year.  He should be more aggressive, either behind the scenes or out front, to get Cook taken care of for the next 3 or so years.  Josh says he loves Cook--time to show it rather than just say it. I think he will step up, if he has not yet done so, and be more aggressive. That is what leaders who win Super Bowls often do.

 

I  think the reason for the foolish knee jerk disparaging claims are just people repeating what others say, so for them it has become a reality. (It is very common in sports, but more frightening,  just as common in society, for the important things...) This despite the fact that I have never seen any solid or clear evidence of it.  Very telling.  But so easy to do the opposite and show how important high level running games and backs are to high caliber NFL teams.

 

Impressive analysis, sadly if the consensus amongst GMs is RBs are limited to rookie contracts, the Cooks of the world will invariably end up coming back to haunt the teams that drafted them.

[Mr. WEO]

Cook your own meals.  Never pay a cook.

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I compared the first 3 seasons for you.

 

Either you were unaware that McCaffrey caught 300 balls for an additional 2500 yards and 15 TD in those first 3 seasons or you ignored it.

 

Regardless, the difference between those two players production their first 3 is EXACTLY what I posted before. 

I wasn’t referring to receiving but McCaffrey was used more in the pass game on the crappy last place Panthers. They had minimal offensive talent. The down side is that in years 4 and 5 he was either hurt or unproductive. His numbers reflect how injury prone he is. Bills competed for Championships with great receivers in Cooks career. McCaffrey is 28 coming off another injury riddled year. Do you think he’s worth 19 million and Cook at 25 isn’t worth a second contract for 13 or 14.