Is Cook worth it?

[nosejob]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

Money talks, bull#### walks.

I think publicizing that he's "putting his house on the market" thing is a stunt. A ploy. A negotiating tactic.

I don't think he's given any indication that he doesn't want to be here. He simply wants to get PAID.

If it gets to the point where it looks like the Bills won't be paying what he's looking for -- and I hope they don't, for the reasons I mentioned above -- then they only have two choices: Get one more good year out of him and let him walk and net a compensatory pick, or trade him away for whatever they can get. But as I said in my other post, I don't think the Bills are coming from a particularly strong place in terms of negotiating trade compensation, and I don't think many teams are going to be eager to trade for Cook, given his apparent compensation demands. So if you're the Bills, would you rather have one more good year of James Cook, or would you rather have, say, a 4th and a 7th?

Obviously if Cook is gonna be a malcontent and a distraction, then maybe you lean more toward trading him. But so far, he's given no indication that he'll be those things.

 

That's why I think he'll likely fetch a better pick for 26. They could still not say another word and just trade him next weekend. Pick 70 to the Jags? ie.  I want to keep him, but there seems to be a lot of hoopla going on with visits etc.

Edited Tuesday at 07:03 PM by nosejob

[HOUSE]

No no no ....

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

No RB is, Cook is also playing against teams in a nickel and Josh always has to be accounted for. If we traded him to the Titans he would have 900 yards and 6 TD’s. 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, gjv said:

Next to Josh Allen, Cook has the most touches for the Offense. He also is second in yards gained and TDs scored. That being said, you would think he has a great argument to be the second-highest paid skill player on the Offense. Of course, since his skill set is so common, his argument to be paid is worthless, We can find a RB in the middle round of this year's draft, save a lot of money, get the same production, and let Cook walk. It's really a no-brainer, or am I missing something?

Next to any teams QB, the top RB on the that has the most touches.

Edited Tuesday at 07:30 PM by Beast

[Einstein's Dog]

25 minutes ago, Logic said:

Money talks, bull#### walks.

I think publicizing that he's "putting his house on the market" thing is a stunt. A ploy. A negotiating tactic.

I don't think he's given any indication that he doesn't want to be here. He simply wants to get PAID.

If it gets to the point where it looks like the Bills won't be paying what he's looking for -- and I hope they don't, for the reasons I mentioned above -- then they only have two choices: Get one more good year out of him and let him walk and net a compensatory pick, or trade him away for whatever they can get. But as I said in my other post, I don't think the Bills are coming from a particularly strong place in terms of negotiating trade compensation, and I don't think many teams are going to be eager to trade for Cook, given his apparent compensation demands. So if you're the Bills, would you rather have one more good year of James Cook, or would you rather have, say, a 4th and a 7th?

Obviously if Cook is gonna be a malcontent and a distraction, then maybe you lean more toward trading him. But so far, he's given no indication that he'll be those things.
 

Yes, putting his house on the market was a stunt.  It was a sign, and not a good one from a Bills fan perspective.  It is showing more tendencies towards how Cook could become a distraction.

 

Getting PAID is not so simple.  One it's generally not been what the Bills want to do with RBs.  Secondly, you don't get big money if you're a 2 down back - which is what it looks like is his role in Buffalo.

 

You say "given his apparent compensation demands", I contend we really don't know Cook's compensation demands.  Cook may very well be open to playing on another team (where he is given the bellcow role) for the $5M contracted amount.  This would be a great deal for the acquiring team.

 

So if the Bills FO is in fear of a "hold-in" from Cook, which they could be, moving Cook during the draft could make sense.   A team like the Cardinals or Pitt who miss out on Jeanty/Hampton may deal for Cook.

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Yes, putting his house on the market was a stunt.  It was a sign, and not a good one from a Bills fan perspective.  It is showing more tendencies towards how Cook could become a distraction.

 

Getting PAID is not so simple.  One it's generally not been what the Bills want to do with RBs.  Secondly, you don't get big money if you're a 2 down back - which is what it looks like is his role in Buffalo.

 

You say "given his apparent compensation demands", I contend we really don't know Cook's compensation demands.  Cook may very well be open to playing on another team (where he is given the bellcow role) for the $5M contracted amount.  This would be a great deal for the acquiring team.

 

So if the Bills FO is in fear of a "hold-in" from Cook, which they could be, moving Cook during the draft could make sense.   A team like the Cardinals or Pitt who miss out on Jeanty/Hampton may deal for Cook.

 

I would add the Giants as a possible trade partner now that they no longer have Barkley. 

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I would add the Giants as a possible trade partner now that they no longer have Barkley. 

Cook and a 4th for the Giants #34 pick.  

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Cook and a 4th for the Giants #34 pick.  

 

That's not nearly enough for 34. Cook's value is maybe a high 4th - given that he's a RB (notoriously terrible trade values), in the last year of his deal (lowers that value), is publicly angling for a top dollar deal (lowers that value more), and in the year of a very good RB class (lowers that value even more).

 

If you said like a bottom 2nd for that package, *maybe*. Our 1st 4th and let's set the first pick in the 4th as Cook's valuation - would get you to like the 10th pick in Round 3. Maybe someone gives a slightly higher value for Cook than that. But he's not getting so much more value than that (along with our first pick in the 4th) to get you as high as the 2nd pick in Round 2.

 

For context, we could package both 56 and 62 and that would get us as high as either 32 or 33, depending on if 32 was willing to eat 2 points or we were willing to eat 2 points for 33 (182 pts total for 56 and 62 combined v. 184 pts for 32 or 180 pts for 33). Which is immediately right above where you're suggesting. And neither 109 nor Cook come close to either values of 56 or 62.

 

To make up the difference between our top 4th (Pick 109 is worth 30 pts.) and 34 (worth 175 pts.) - James Cook alone would need to be worth Pick 41 (the 9th Pick in Round 2 worth 146 pts.). And that's a MUCH higher valuation than even the absolute most we could hope to get for him.

 

For further context, DK Metcalf (a #1 WR who was also in the last year of his deal and was also angling for top dollar) was only worth Pick 52. In no world is Metcalf worth 52 and Cook is worth 41. 

 

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp

Edited Wednesday at 02:20 AM by BillsFanForever19

[Mister Defense]

8 hours ago, Billsfed1 said:

Those first few games to me are fairly dicey.

 

Still think he’s a hell of a back and would love to have him, but if he really makes his intentions clear…does he get booed out of Buffalo?

 

When he undoubtedly makes a big play in the opener…does he get booed?

 

Hollins and Cook were the 2 guys not named Allen that really gave us something against the Chiefs.

IMO he deserves his spot if he’ll behave.

 

Is he worth the headache?

 

I cannot imagine any Bills' fans, let alone a big group of them, booing one of the best players on the team, the only elite football player on the team after Allen. And booing after he makes a big play!?  He will make lots of them, does so in almost every game.  If we boo him after big plays, we are going to need to boo him a lot it seems.

 

He is extremely fast,  an excellent route runner and receiver, and runs very smart and very well. He purposely transformed himself physically the last few years to become a better power runner.  It worked extremely well, as we saw. 

 

The better the Bills run the ball, proven year after year since Allen arrived, the better the Bills become. The Bills are much more likely to have an elite running game, the next step in their evolution, with Cook than without him.

 

You don't get rid of one of the few elite players on the team over the amount of money that is in question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

He's not worth paying a top RB contract to, but not because he's any kind of headache.

He's not worth it because he's not elite.

He isn't a great weapon in the passing game (he's capable there, albeit with the occasional case of the dropsies, but nothing special), he comes off the field on third downs because his pass blocking stinks, and he's a guy whose load you have to manage.

So if he's not a three-down back, he's not a huge weapon in the passing game, and he comes off the field for key third downs, how to you justify handing him a big contract? Simple: You don't.

Let him play out 2025 and then walk. Ray Davis and Ty Johnson and a draftee will be perfectly capable replacements. If you feel the need to spend money on the running game, allocate those dollars to Connor McGovern instead.

You’re pretty adamant about who’s elite. Do you think McCaffrey or Barkley are elite? If you compare their first 3years,,Cook is more productive and more available. He is a beast in the red zone scoring 16 TDs. He’s better than Barkley in the receiving game and he is 3 years younger than both Barkley and McCaffrey. He’s done everything asked of him and who says he has to be on the field on 3rd down when we have the best 3rd down back in football in Ty Johnson. Cook gets it done with a minimum amount of carries. Cook can’t be responsible for Brady’s mindless decisions not to put him in on our last few series against KC. Look at that TD he scored on 4th down against KC. That was elite. Just remember his request for 15 million starts a negotiation and if Beane decided to resign him now he probably could get him for 42 or 43 for 3 years. I hear a lot of “not being elite”, but he’s as good as anybody in the AFC and gets better every year. Henry is great but disappeared when it counted most. You talk about blocking, Josh got sacked 8 times all year and was the MVP. Cook is a matchup nightmare out of the backfield and had over 400 yds receiving.  With Barkley’s deal great backs will be getting more than in previous years, no one knows the rookie that we craft will be as productive or injury free as Cook. 

God forbid he Chiefs or Bengals get him. 

[MasterStrategist]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

The problem for Cook and for the Bills -- if indeed a trade is what they want -- is that this is an EXCEPTIONALLY amazing running back draft. Deeper than any year I can ever remember at the position.

As such, why would any team want to trade a pick to the Bills and then hand Cook big money when they can just draft a guy instead and have a cost-controlled running back deal for four years?

It's a bad year to try to force your way out at running back, and it's a bad year to be hoping to get anything substantial in return FOR a running back.

I genuinely can't foresee the Bills getting anything better than a 4th round plus at this point, and I think most people would rather just have him on the roster for 2025 than trade him for that return.

With our recent drafting, I'd rather keep Cook if offered a 2nd (which would never happen).

 

All this speculation from people is crazy.  Cook isn't going to hold out/hold in, he'll ball out this year for a major payday in 2026+.  Bills get the benefit of a motivated/very talented player and can re visit the option of extending him next offseason.

 

I've said this many times, but if I'm Beane I'm offering a 3 year extension (thru 2028) for $26m gtd and potential for $12-$14m aav.  That's going to be the going rate for Cook, at a minimum, come next offseason.  Guys like Gibbs coming up for contract soon, we will see 4-5 RBs making premier money---- Cook is in that top echelon (top 5 RBs) if people want to admit it or not, given his age and low mileage, and significant improvement year to year --- with others in that top group aging out in 2-3 years max.

 

 

[DallasBillsFan1]

9 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

Honest to freaking god, these offseason threads are cringe-worthy

 

James Cook is a very good running back

James Cook has some elite talents

James Cook produced at a high level last year

James Cook isn't Saquon Barkley

 

He's going to play in Buffalo this year without holdouts or complaints

He will continue to play at a high level, but not get more than 60% of snaps, similar to last year

He'll leave in free agency and get a nice, but not elite, 2nd contract

The Bills will get a nice comp pick in 2027

 

Likely will end up in AFC East.  😐

[butch rolle]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Sure but if he plays out the year who cares? 
 

Gonna bench him for 29 year old Ray Davis because he puts his house on the market when we can’t reach a deal to keep him in Buffalo?

 

It doesn’t make any sense lol 

29?  Where did the extra 4 years come from?

[Warriorspikes51]

10Mil per with up to 12 in incentives

 

or trade.

[Logic]

43 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

With our recent drafting, I'd rather keep Cook if offered a 2nd (which would never happen).

 

All this speculation from people is crazy.  Cook isn't going to hold out/hold in, he'll ball out this year for a major payday in 2026+.  Bills get the benefit of a motivated/very talented player and can re visit the option of extending him next offseason.

 

I've said this many times, but if I'm Beane I'm offering a 3 year extension (thru 2028) for $26m gtd and potential for $12-$14m aav.  That's going to be the going rate for Cook, at a minimum, come next offseason.  Guys like Gibbs coming up for contract soon, we will see 4-5 RBs making premier money---- Cook is in that top echelon (top 5 RBs) if people want to admit it or not, given his age and low mileage, and significant improvement year to year --- with others in that top group aging out in 2-3 years max.

 

 

This, respectfully, I don't agree with.

In no particular order:

Saquon Barkley
Derrick Henry
Bijan Robinson

Jahmyr Gibbs
Kyren Williams

Bucky Irving

Breece Hall
Jonathan Taylor

Alvin Kamara

 

I would take any one of those guys (age notwithstanding) over James Cook. Not to mention incoming guys like Ashton Jeanty, Omarion Hampton, Treveyon Henderson, and Kaleb Johnson.

Cook BARELY cracked 1,000 yards last year. And the reason people usually given in response to that is "well...he's in a timeshare. He's not a full time back". Right. Exactly. This is one of the reasons I don't want to pay him big money. You have to manage his load because of his size and frame. 

And again, I'm maybe willing to give a big contract to a timeshare guy IF he's a great pass catcher and third down back, but Cook is neither.

I understand the perspective of people that want to pay him, I suppose. But me? I just happen to think that so long as the o-line remains strong, we can replace his production with a Ray Davis, Ty Johnson, and a draft pick. Running back is an extremely replaceable position, and I don't see anything elite or standout enough about Cook's game to indicate to me that he's worth top five money or is a top five back.

[DeepPass]

10 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Some people read into him asking for $15 million contracts through social media headaches. Others may have issue that he put his Buffalo house on the market when appeared our GM said that he isn't talking contract extension with him etc. as another cause for concern. Personally, he's been good in his role and welcome signing him to another 2-3 years but not top end money maybe top 10 but it means sacrificing elsewhere like the interior OL to do so. 

Give him a 3 year extension at $10mil / year.   In year 3 he'll be a bargain at prices then.  

[DeepPass]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

10Mil per with up to 12 in incentives

 

or trade.

agree - 3 years!

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Do you think McCaffrey or Barkley are elite? If you compare their first 3years,,Cook is more productive and more available

Um.

 

Cook has 3500 yards and 27 TDs in his first 3 years.

 

In McCaffrey’s first 3 years, he had 5400 yards and 39 TDs.

 

So besides the difference in 1900 yards and 12 TD’s, no

[Cash]

21 hours ago, Logic said:

This, respectfully, I don't agree with.

In no particular order:

Saquon Barkley
Derrick Henry
Bijan Robinson

Jahmyr Gibbs
Kyren Williams

Bucky Irving

Breece Hall
Jonathan Taylor

Alvin Kamara

 

I would take any one of those guys (age notwithstanding) over James Cook. Not to mention incoming guys like Ashton Jeanty, Omarion Hampton, Treveyon Henderson, and Kaleb Johnson.

Cook BARELY cracked 1,000 yards last year. And the reason people usually given in response to that is "well...he's in a timeshare. He's not a full time back". Right. Exactly. This is one of the reasons I don't want to pay him big money. You have to manage his load because of his size and frame. 

And again, I'm maybe willing to give a big contract to a timeshare guy IF he's a great pass catcher and third down back, but Cook is neither.

I understand the perspective of people that want to pay him, I suppose. But me? I just happen to think that so long as the o-line remains strong, we can replace his production with a Ray Davis, Ty Johnson, and a draft pick. Running back is an extremely replaceable position, and I don't see anything elite or standout enough about Cook's game to indicate to me that he's worth top five money or is a top five back.

I mostly agree with you on Cook, but I think it’s worth pushing back on a couple things. First,the comps. Kyren Williams is close but I’d take Cook. Bucky Irving is a notch below IMO. Breece Hall is way overrated and I strongly prefer Cook there. And in their primes Taylor & Kamara? Sure. Actual age/injury situation? Nope.

 

The second thing: elite or standout aspects to Cook’s game. His combo of quickness, burst, speed, etc is unmatched on our roster now, and going back a while. He moves the needle on a lot of those stretch runs and sweeps, where he’s able to beat the defender to the corner and either get a nice gain or break off a huge run. Those same runs are often stuffed when the RB has just regular NFL speed. Cook is also (the only) home run hitter on our offense. He’s shown he’s capable of taking it to the house from anywhere if given the opportunity. A lot of his long TD runs the last couple years would’ve been 10-20 yard gains with just a “good” back. 
 

Add in that last year he showed both willingness and ability to be a goal line back and make tough runs between the tackles, and you’ve got a really interesting player. His pass blocking and dropsies keep him from being a truly elite player, but IMO he’s still a guy that moves the needle*. How much is that worth? Probably not elite or market-setting money, which is why I’m open to letting him walk (preferably via tag & trade or at least a comp pick). But I don’t think he’s as replaceable as you’re making it out. 
 

*I guess my player tiers are something like:

-Sucks/replacement level

-Good player but JAG

-Needle mover

-Difference maker/elite

Edited Wednesday at 10:48 PM by Cash

[MasterStrategist]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

This, respectfully, I don't agree with.

In no particular order:

Saquon Barkley
Derrick Henry
Bijan Robinson

Jahmyr Gibbs
Kyren Williams

Bucky Irving

Breece Hall
Jonathan Taylor

Alvin Kamara

 

I would take any one of those guys (age notwithstanding) over James Cook. Not to mention incoming guys like Ashton Jeanty, Omarion Hampton, Treveyon Henderson, and Kaleb Johnson.

Cook BARELY cracked 1,000 yards last year. And the reason people usually given in response to that is "well...he's in a timeshare. He's not a full time back". Right. Exactly. This is one of the reasons I don't want to pay him big money. You have to manage his load because of his size and frame. 

And again, I'm maybe willing to give a big contract to a timeshare guy IF he's a great pass catcher and third down back, but Cook is neither.

I understand the perspective of people that want to pay him, I suppose. But me? I just happen to think that so long as the o-line remains strong, we can replace his production with a Ray Davis, Ty Johnson, and a draft pick. Running back is an extremely replaceable position, and I don't see anything elite or standout enough about Cook's game to indicate to me that he's worth top five money or is a top five back.

I don't look at "barely cracking" 1k yards.

 

Cook took over/was a key reason Jaoh didn't have to be superman in certain games last year.  

 

Those are other guys are bell cow types.  Sure, Cook isn't that. But outside of Barkley, Henry, Gibbs- I'm not taking any other back with the elite acceleration, vision, and ability to make big plays than Cook.  

 

Sure, Davis could hit 1k yards for us too.  At 4 YPC, and little juice compared to Cook.  

 

I've dropped stats before supporting Cooks YAC, his contact agility and elite acceleration to the edge is top 5.

 

To each their own, our offense became more balanced because of Cook- that's a fact.  OL helped, but Cook and Bradys playcalling were key.  If we let Cook walk after 2025, that's going to leave a much bigger hole than people will admit.  Cook will be paid, Beane would be smart to keep his homegrown talent in this case.

 

Not to mention your comps: for real on Williams, Irving, Hall?  Lol, honestly that's a horrible take.  And your last comment about "not seeing anything elite" about Cook.  I think you're further off base with that comment.  Again, these discussions are pointless though.  We're both fans, I dont know your background and if some how Cooks social media is bothering you, like it has some other fans/causing you to bias your judgment than that's another issue. 

 

Bottom line, we will invest at RB one way or another next offseason (if not sooner with an extension).  Be it a 2nd or 3rd round pick, free agency, spending $$$ on Cook can be borrowed from elsewhere --- it's all a tradeoff.  To me, Cook is our 2nd best offensive player behind Josh.  Someone who just put up 18 total TDs in just his 3rd season and has vast improvement year to year ---  again, Gtd $s is what it will be about, essentially 1 less backup at $3m and retaining a 2nd or 3rd rounder to use on another position is a no brainer to me

Edited Wednesday at 03:51 AM by MasterStrategist