Derek Carr, possibly out for 2025

[T master]

14 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

They are stuck with him due to dead cap.

 

They have been stuck in a bad place with a lot of dead cap money the way that Payton had things go while he was there and it has seemed to continue since he's left .

[FireChans]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Bottom out to get a Quarterback prospect who deserves top 10 consideration not one who is getting one because the class is pretty weak.

So what though? 
 

If Sanders falls to 19 and the Steelers get him and he looks the part, everyone will clown the Saints for passing and rightfully so.

 

The old GB used to believe that regardless of how garbage the rest of the roster is, if you don’t have a QB your biggest need is QB. The new GB believes the Saints should pick the 3rd best EDGE with their top 10 pick when they may not have a QB on the roster lol. 

Edited Sunday at 01:54 PM by FireChans

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So what though? 
 

If Sanders falls to 19 and the Steelers get him and he looks the part, everyone will clown the Saints for passing and rightfully so.

 

The old GB used to believe that regardless of how garbage the rest of the roster is, if you don’t have a QB your biggest need is QB. The new GB believes the Saints should pick the 3rd best EDGE with their top 10 pick when they may not have a QB on the roster lol. 

 

No. I still believe if you don't have a QB your biggest need is QB. But I don't know if I think the right strategy for the Saints to get one is to draft one at #9 in this class. I will criticise the Browns and the Giants if they pass and Shedeur or Jaxon Dart end up being good. I will give the Saints more of a pass. Where they are honestly I would advocate tanking. And that is not something I am generally a fan of. But I think they need a full reset. 

[machine gun kelly]

55 minutes ago, T master said:

 

They have been stuck in a bad place with a lot of dead cap money the way that Payton had things go while he was there and it has seemed to continue since he's left .

That’s true, but Mickey Loomis, controlled those purse springs.  Them kicking the can perpetually caught up to them.

 

Im sorry for Carr, but he was on the downside of his career.  The Saints or Aints need to get back to rolling the dice on drafting a QB.  This year is a not a great QB pool so the hits keep coming.

 

Seeing as after the Bills, the Bucs are my favorite NFC team as I’ve lived in Tampa for 34 years.  This only helps the. Ice for another division title.  Besides, I like Mayfield and Bowles has grown on me.

[SoTier]

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I really don't understand this concept ha.

 

Bottom out to do what? Eventually have a QB prospect fall in your lap in the top 10? That's what they have, right now.

 

Their cap situation SUCKS, no one can deny that. But it's getting easier .They aren't over the cap in 26 and they are basically free from a ton of their old money in 2027.

 

To me this is such a drought era Bills loser concept. Being 2 years away from being 2 years away, we'll take a QB next time, we aren't ready yet etc etc. Trading guys like Chris Olave away to draft other talented players in the top 10 that will get infected by your loser franchise culture for 2-3 years until you try to find a QB.

 

The Bills FO during the drought never put off drafting a QB or any player because the current team "wasn't ready", ie had enough talent; they didn't draft good/great players in critical positions when they had the opportunity to do so because they were using premium draft picks to replace good starters that they either traded away or allowed to walk in free agency.

 

Drafting a QB simply because he's the best of QB in a draft without really outstanding QB prospects is definitely a "drought era Bills loser concept".  The Bills did exactly that in 2013 when they drafted EJ Manuel.  

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, SoTier said:

The Bills FO during the drought never put off drafting a QB or any player because the current team "wasn't ready

May I introduce you to the 2017 draft. You may have heard about it.

 

The sole reason the Bills drought lasted as long as it did is between Kelly and Allen, they drafted TWO QBs in the first lol.

Edited Sunday at 03:14 PM by FireChans

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

May I introduce you to the 2017 draft. You may have heard about it.

 

The sole reason the Bills drought lasted as long as it did is between Kelly and Allen, they drafted TWO QBs in the first lol.

 

Completely agree. But one of them was EJ Manuel. I am not saying Shedeur is EJ but I do think he would be similar in the sense that it would be a forced QB pick.

[FireChans]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Completely agree. But one of them was EJ Manuel. I am not saying Shedeur is EJ but I do think he would be similar in the sense that it would be a forced QB pick.

And so what?

 

The 2012 Bills were 6-10. The 2013 Bills with a bum in EJ were 6-10. In the grand scheme of it all, it made no difference. 
 

EJ sucked. But he had a shot to be better than Fitzy ever would be. That chance is worth taking every time in a QB league.

 

Treating picking a bust QB in the first as a cardinal sin that must never happen is coward stuff.

 

The long view taken is the correct view. The fear mongering of “taking the wrong QB sets you back 5 years” is just that. 
 

You’d think Bills fans would’ve wised up to this by now. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

And so what?

 

The 2012 Bills were 6-10. The 2013 Bills with a bum in EJ were 6-10. In the grand scheme of it all, it made no difference. 
 

EJ sucked. But he had a shot to be better than Fitzy ever would be. That chance is worth taking every time in a QB league.

 

Treating picking a bust QB in the first as a cardinal sin that must never happen is coward stuff.

 

The long view taken is the correct view. The fear mongering of “taking the wrong QB sets you back 5 years” is just that. 
 

You’d think Bills fans would’ve wised up to this by now. 

 

But that isn't what I am doing with the Saints. I am saying they should improve their odds by basically punting on 2025. I think the Browns should take a QB. I think the Giants should take a QB. I think the Raiders should (although they won't) and I think the Steelers should. I just think the Saints are in a different position.

 

Like I say, I actually think the Saints will, and I wouldn't criticise them for doing so. But they are the one QB needy team in this class that if I was the GM of I'd wait.

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But that isn't what I am doing with the Saints. I am saying they should improve their odds by basically punting on 2025. I think the Browns should take a QB. I think the Giants should take a QB. I think the Raiders should (although they won't) and I think the Steelers should. I just think the Saints are in a different position.

 

Like I say, I actually think the Saints will, and I wouldn't criticise them for doing so. But they are the one QB needy team in this class that if I was the GM of I'd wait.

Fair enough. I just don’t think there’s ever a good enough reason to wait when you don’t have a good QB.

 

If they like Shedeur, they should take him. Maybe Arch stays in school. Maybe they hit on every other pick and win 8 games. The future is uncertain.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Fair enough. I just don’t think there’s ever a good enough reason to wait when you don’t have a good QB.

 

If they like Shedeur, they should take him. Maybe Arch stays in school. Maybe they hit on every other pick and win 8 games. The future is uncertain.

 

If they like Shedeur they should take him. 100%. If they just think he is okay they are not in force a QB mode. Not when the next two years is a tear down situation.

[The Jokeman]

On 4/12/2025 at 11:43 AM, FireChans said:

Olave is a concussion away from retiring. 
 

How much would you give up for that kind of player?

Didn't we hear that about Mitch Morse?

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Didn't we hear that about Mitch Morse?

We did.

 

I’m not sure Morse was seeking out independent Neurologists to see if he was okay to keep playing 6 months ago.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nfl/saints-chris-olave-see-specilaits-determine-nfl-future-after-scary-concussion-1982125

 

I do know that we aren’t talking about trading a 3rd round pick and potentially signing a massive extension to Morse like we would Olave.

 

do you think it’s smart for a team to trade for Tua and pay him right now?

 

 

[Bullfrog]

The Bills organization was just bad during the drought. In my opinion the biggest mistake was the bills brass not going after drew brees because we had j.p. losman on the roster. 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

May I introduce you to the 2017 draft. You may have heard about it.

 

The sole reason the Bills drought lasted as long as it did is between Kelly and Allen, they drafted TWO QBs in the first lol.

 

Bull manure.  

 

The reason the Bills drought lasted so long was because the owner and his surrogate, Russ Brandon, operated the team to maximize profits.   The aim was to spend the minimum amount necessary to field a team that won just enough to convince fans to fill the seats.   The last Bills GM before Beane was hired to put winning over maximizing profits was Tom Donahoe.  He traded a first round pick to get Drew Bledsoe and he traded up in the 2004 to draft JP Losman.  Both of those QBs were compromised by the team's lack of support in terms of providing either with decent  coaching, OL, and WRs. 

 

Under Brandon the Bills played "money ball". They drafted players and they signed FAs with the sole purpose of conning fans into believing the team was attempting to build a winning team.  It's why they hired obscure That's why they replaced RB McGahey with Marshawn Lynch and then replaced Lynch with CJ Spiller.  It's why they signed Terrell Owens and later Mario Williams.  It's also why they drafted Manuel in 2013 and let Stephon Gilmore leave in free agency so they needed to draft Tre'Davious White in 2017 to replace him.  Between 2006 and 2013, the Bills were literally a farm team for the rest of the NFL as so many of the good/great players they developed went on to star on other teams because the team "couldn't afford them" while the Bills rosters were filled with waiver wire refugees, UDFAs, and Day 3 draft picks. 

 

Luckily for Bills fans, Pegula got lucky that his choice for HC, Rex Ryan, crashed and burned.  Both McDermott and Brandon Beane were "outsiders" to the Bills organization.   We got even luckier when Russ Brandon was fired in 2018 for issues unrelated to how he ran the football team, and Pegula essentially turned the team over to Brandon Beane to run.

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Under Brandon the Bills played "money ball". They drafted players and they signed FAs with the sole purpose of conning fans into believing the team was attempting to build a winning team.  It's why they hired obscure That's why they replaced RB McGahey with Marshawn Lynch and then replaced Lynch with CJ Spiller.  It's why they signed Terrell Owens and later Mario Williams.  It's also why they drafted Manuel in 2013 and let Stephon Gilmore leave in free agency so they needed to draft Tre'Davious White in 2017 to replace him.  Between 2006 and 2013, the Bills were literally a farm team for the rest of the NFL as so many of the good/great players they developed went on to star on other teams because the team "couldn't afford them" while the Bills rosters were filled with waiver wire refugees, UDFAs, and Day 3 draft picks

A total crock.

 

It’s a nice story on paper but it doesn’t hold up to cursory examination.

 

McDermott let Gilmore walk and drafted White in the first. He was running the entire org, and the Pegulas had owned the team for 3 years at that point.

They over-emphasized RBs but not because of money reasons. It was because of stupid reasons. 

[Sierra Foothills]

12 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Bull manure.  

 

The reason the Bills drought lasted so long was because the owner and his surrogate, Russ Brandon, operated the team to maximize profits.   The aim was to spend the minimum amount necessary to field a team that won just enough to convince fans to fill the seats.   The last Bills GM before Beane was hired to put winning over maximizing profits was Tom Donahoe.  He traded a first round pick to get Drew Bledsoe and he traded up in the 2004 to draft JP Losman.  Both of those QBs were compromised by the team's lack of support in terms of providing either with decent  coaching, OL, and WRs. 

 

Under Brandon the Bills played "money ball". They drafted players and they signed FAs with the sole purpose of conning fans into believing the team was attempting to build a winning team.  It's why they hired obscure That's why they replaced RB McGahey with Marshawn Lynch and then replaced Lynch with CJ Spiller.  It's why they signed Terrell Owens and later Mario Williams.  It's also why they drafted Manuel in 2013 and let Stephon Gilmore leave in free agency so they needed to draft Tre'Davious White in 2017 to replace him.  Between 2006 and 2013, the Bills were literally a farm team for the rest of the NFL as so many of the good/great players they developed went on to star on other teams because the team "couldn't afford them" while the Bills rosters were filled with waiver wire refugees, UDFAs, and Day 3 draft picks. 

 

Luckily for Bills fans, Pegula got lucky that his choice for HC, Rex Ryan, crashed and burned.  Both McDermott and Brandon Beane were "outsiders" to the Bills organization.   We got even luckier when Russ Brandon was fired in 2018 for issues unrelated to how he ran the football team, and Pegula essentially turned the team over to Brandon Beane to run.

 

I agree with much of this but you mischaracterize "Moneyball." What you describe is not what Moneyball is... based on the Michael Lewis book.

 

Also, I think the splash signings during the drought showed that the Bills were clueless, more than that they were trying to dupe fans into buying tickets. 

 

JMO.

 

[FireChans]

35 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I agree with much of this but you mischaracterize "Moneyball." What you describe is not what Moneyball is... based on the Michael Lewis book.

 

Also, I think the splash signings during the drought showed that the Bills were clueless, more than that they were trying to dupe fans into buying tickets. 

 

JMO.

 

There’s no question that Russ and Ralph were trying to not lose money on the Bills first and foremost. Cash to cap spending and all that.

 

The things @SoTier gets wrong are things like:

 

Spiller wasn’t drafted because Lynch was walking in FA. Spiller was drafted and Lynch was traded because Lynch was addicted to hitting pedestrians in his car and doing other dumb *****.

 

Ralph had been dead for 3 years when Gilmore walked and we were “forced” to draft his replacement in the first. (Funny how when we let Edmunds walk, we weren’t forced to draft his replacement in the first. Maybe this “forced” nonsense is just that).
 

Mario Williams was perhaps the greatest Bills FA signing in 25 years. It was not the same as overpaying TO on a 1 year deal (which was in fact shameless FA move but a drop in the bucket imo)

 

Pegula had opened up the checkbook for Whaley long before McD got there. The 2015 and 2016 Bills had a ton of money on the books. They were restructuring Clay and throwing money at Incognito etc etc. But we didn’t make the playoffs those years either, because our QB was dog ***** and our HC sucked too.

 

So right church, wrong pew. 
 

The drought Bills were mismanaged. But even mismanagement can’t overcome having a good QB.

 

The Bengals are notoriously cheap, and do dumb *****  or mismanage ***** all the time. When they have Palmer, Dalton, and now Burrow playing high-level ball, they make the playoffs.

 

The Bills were mismanaged and were afraid to chase QBs. That combo is the recipe for the longest playoff drought in sports. 
 

this is OBVIOUS

[JP51]

I think they are calling the SS... at this point they probably need to bite the bullet and try to get their future QB... Car is a C+/B- QB at his best... older with a shoulder problem probably doesnt bode well for NO ... my bet is Sanders is a Saint if he is available... 

Edited 19 hours ago by JP51

[JP51]

On 4/12/2025 at 9:38 AM, BlueRed said:

Do the Saints have enough talent on their roster to compete for the NFC South division if they swapped in Aaron Rodgers for Carr?  👀

Things that may you go hmmm.. now that could be a thought... in a very mediocre division.. but imo that isnt even kicking the can... its even pretty risky that Rodgers would be an upgrade to anyone at this point... but, they could give it a shot... my choice would be to build the team getting my QB...  that said... if they are not into any of the QBs in this pretty down draft year and are like we are not spending 9 on a QB we dont like... Rodgers could be an answer...