What’s your hottest Bills take?

[SoMAn]

On 4/11/2025 at 6:12 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Honesty, I feel like if Marino was the QB instead of Kelly the Bills win 2 of those Super Bowls.

And yet, Marino only made it to a single Superbowl, and that was before Kelly was on the Bills' roster. Head-to-head, Kelly regularly beat Marino-led Dolphins. I don't know how you can seriously make the case that Marino could have brought Buffalo a couple Super Bowls. He was too much of a 'me' player, padding his passing stats. I don't think they ever had a 1,000 yard rusher. Kelly, calling his own plays used his entire offense. They were far more balanced, which is probably why they won 4 AFC championships and Marino only one.

[H2o]

13 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

And yet, Marino only made it to a single Superbowl, and that was before Kelly was on the Bills' roster. Head-to-head, Kelly regularly beat Marino-led Dolphins. I don't know how you can seriously make the case that Marino could have brought Buffalo a couple Super Bowls. He was too much of a 'me' player, padding his passing stats. I don't think they ever had a 1,000 yard rusher. Kelly, calling his own plays used his entire offense. They were far more balanced, which is probably why they won 4 AFC championships and Marino only one.

I think Marino gets at least two SB's here as well, if not three. Marino didn't have the defense behind him that Kelly had, and he SURELY never had an in-his-prime Thurman Thomas. I also think our collection of WR's was better than Miami's when Buffalo was running the division. 

[FireChans]

37 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

And yet, Marino only made it to a single Superbowl, and that was before Kelly was on the Bills' roster. Head-to-head, Kelly regularly beat Marino-led Dolphins. I don't know how you can seriously make the case that Marino could have brought Buffalo a couple Super Bowls. He was too much of a 'me' player, padding his passing stats. I don't think they ever had a 1,000 yard rusher. Kelly, calling his own plays used his entire offense. They were far more balanced, which is probably why they won 4 AFC championships and Marino only one.

There’s a reason why Marino is pretty much everyone’s “best QB to never win a ring” pick and Kelly kinda isn’t in that discussion.

[corta765]

On 4/12/2025 at 8:28 AM, SoCal Deek said:

Ralph wasn’t cheap. Or was he? 

 

Ralph Wilson was cheap with coaches and mgmt, he was not cheap with players especially after the mid 80s. Ralph was a salesman though and signings like TO were for tickets while it was a boost lineup wise. The greatest sin for Ralph was his refusual pay his org and it cost him dearly post Butler especially. Look at the org chart from Polian through Butler and how many good NFL minds were here. Ralph was selfish and wouldn't pay as it was his way or the highway and once that talent left he couldn't get it back

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There’s a reason why Marino is pretty much everyone’s “best QB to never win a ring” pick and Kelly kinda isn’t in that discussion.

Another thing is we'd never have had the number one pick to draft Bruce Smith (also possibly not trading for Bennett) if we drafted Marino in '83.  It's why takes like Marino would've won the Super Bowl with the Bills 90's roster is fruitless to debate.

[Nihilarian]

14 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I think he'd be more highly regarded if he didn't got to the USFL after college.  Three years of NFL experience in a less banged up body would've definitely added to the resume and maybe he could've met that elite status earlier than '90.

Simply put, Ralph didn't want to pay him. The difference between Tom Cousineau signing with Buffalo or walking away to the CFL was like 20k. 

 

Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson was notoriously frugal and wasn't a billionaire like the owners of today. He had a lot of hobbies, such as keeping racehorses, and he needed the Bills to actually make a profit. Let's not forget that other owners were forced to sell their teams because they lost money like the Cleveland Browns and Art Model ...(who is now so loved in Cleveland.) 🥺 There were several times over the years that Wilson contemplated selling the Bills. 

 

GM Bill Polian talked Ralph Wilson into making Jim Kelly the highest-paid QB at that time along with stadium upgrades and paying other FAs, and star players. Kelly was met in Buffalo like the savior of the franchise as he was mobbed by Bills fans. Kelly is loved by older Bills fans like Josh is now. 

 

Kelly came to Buffalo at the perfect time as HC Marv Levy hired Ted Marchibroda (ex-Colt HC) to run the offense. Ole Ted noticed that Kelly was excellent at running the 2-minute drill and implemented that "no-huddle" hurry-up offense to run all game long. Ole Ted also taught Kelly to call his own offensive plays. No other NFL QB was as tough as Kelly. He had his choice to play QB for Miami or go to Penn ST and play linebacker for Joe Paterno. 

 

 

On another note, What made Marino so good was his quick release and the reason Miami didn't win an SB with him was that Don Shula had forgotten what won him his early SBs...  that was with the no-name defense, and the run game with Mercury Morris, Jim Kiick, Larry Csonka and instead put it all on Dan's arm. 

[Cray51]

Hot Takes:

 

1) Until Josh's MVP year, you could make a case that Dion was the Bills best player.  I think he is that good

2) McD is an underrated head coach, and would take a team like the Jet's and make them a wild card team last year

3) The Bills are a top 5 drafting team since Beane has taken over

[Turbo44]

2 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Hot Takes:

 

1) Until Josh's MVP year, you could make a case that Dion was the Bills best player.  I think he is that good

2) McD is an underrated head coach, and would take a team like the Jet's and make them a wild card team last year

3) The Bills are a top 5 drafting team since Beane has taken over

My hot take:

 

Beane is a slightly above average gm and McDermott is an average HC who have been made to look better by nailing on draft pick. I like Beane more than McDermott and I think we would have won at least one superbowl by now with an above average head coach

[T.E.]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

There’s a reason why Marino is pretty much everyone’s “best QB to never win a ring” pick and Kelly kinda isn’t in that discussion.

He reason is that Marino played six more seasons than Kelly (in much better weather, no less) and thus has better numbers.

[FireChans]

Just now, T.E. said:

He reason is that Marino played six more seasons than Kelly (in much better weather, no less) and thus has better numbers.

I don’t think so. 
 

The reason is because Marino was a better QB lol

[Bermuda Triangle]

Beane is massively overrated as a GM.

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

There’s a reason why Marino is pretty much everyone’s “best QB to never win a ring” pick and Kelly kinda isn’t in that discussion.

He was a stat compiler, and a massive chump in the playoffs.

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I think Marino gets at least two SB's here as well, if not three. Marino didn't have the defense behind him that Kelly had, and he SURELY never had an in-his-prime Thurman Thomas. I also think our collection of WR's was better than Miami's when Buffalo was running the division. 

Points allowed per game

 

Bill defenses / Miami defenses 

 

1990: 6th / 4th

1991: 19th / 24th

1992: 14th / 11th

1993: 5th / 24th

 

Not exactly some massive edge towards Miami. Nor was saying our WR core was vastly superior to Duper and Clayton. We had Reed and a declining Lofton (who was clearly till very strong a few of those years). I can't say Beebe is what turns the tide. Now our run game and Thurman, that was a serious advantage. But does Miami even use Thurman remotely the same as we did? Probably not. The idea that Marino would have somehow gave us all these Super Bowls and Kelly sucks is laughable to be honest. Sure Marino had one of the prettiest balls we have ever seen, best releases on top of it. He was a god QB for just passing. But something was missing that Jim had over him. Call it moxie, call it leadership, grit, whatever. Dan never had it and Jim was it. 

[JP51]

Marv Levy should immediately be removed from the HOF

[That's No Moon]

11 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Marv Levy should immediately be removed from the HOF

Did he run someone down with his walker or stab them with his Jello spork?

[FireChans]

31 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Beane is massively overrated as a GM.

He was a stat compiler, and a massive chump in the playoffs.

Haha are we talking Jimbo?

[JP51]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

Did he run someone down with his walker or stab them with his Jello spork?

Whats funny is I really like the guy... I think he was  mess on game day and with the exception of Marchibroda who was the brains behind the Kgun he hired horrible Asst Coaches in the Superbowl years... who literally never got an NFL job at the same level as their job here when they left . The level of out coached we saw in those Superbowls makes McD look like a game day genius... 

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Points allowed per game

 

Bill defenses / Miami defenses 

 

1990: 6th / 4th

1991: 19th / 24th

1992: 14th / 11th

1993: 5th / 24th

 

Not exactly some massive edge towards Miami. Nor was saying our WR core was vastly superior to Duper and Clayton. We had Reed and a declining Lofton (who was clearly till very strong a few of those years). I can't say Beebe is what turns the tide. Now our run game and Thurman, that was a serious advantage. But does Miami even use Thurman remotely the same as we did? Probably not. The idea that Marino would have somehow gave us all these Super Bowls and Kelly sucks is laughable to be honest. Sure Marino had one of the prettiest balls we have ever seen, best releases on top of it. He was a god QB for just passing. But something was missing that Jim had over him. Call it moxie, call it leadership, grit, whatever. Dan never had it and Jim was it. 

Since 1980 Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts and Bob Griese are the only 3 HoF QB’s who had more picks than TDs in their playoff careers.

[H2o]

23 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Points allowed per game

 

Bill defenses / Miami defenses 

 

1990: 6th / 4th

1991: 19th / 24th

1992: 14th / 11th

1993: 5th / 24th

 

Not exactly some massive edge towards Miami. Nor was saying our WR core was vastly superior to Duper and Clayton. We had Reed and a declining Lofton (who was clearly till very strong a few of those years). I can't say Beebe is what turns the tide. Now our run game and Thurman, that was a serious advantage. But does Miami even use Thurman remotely the same as we did? Probably not. The idea that Marino would have somehow gave us all these Super Bowls and Kelly sucks is laughable to be honest. Sure Marino had one of the prettiest balls we have ever seen, best releases on top of it. He was a god QB for just passing. But something was missing that Jim had over him. Call it moxie, call it leadership, grit, whatever. Dan never had it and Jim was it. 

I'm not saying Kelly sucks. That's you putting words in my mouth. One thing Kelly did though, choke in the SB. He had 2 passing TD's in four games to 7 INT's. He got hurt early in the first Dallas SB, but had already managed to throw 2 INT's before that. His only two passing TD's in the SB came in garbage time against Washington when the game was already out of reach. 

 

I do believe that if you put Marino in a Bills uni then we get two SB's. It's not laughable. Marino was a a better QB than Kelly. Just my 2. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

Ralph Wilson was cheap with coaches and mgmt, he was not cheap with players especially after the mid 80s. Ralph was a salesman though and signings like TO were for tickets while it was a boost lineup wise. The greatest sin for Ralph was his refusual pay his org and it cost him dearly post Butler especially. Look at the org chart from Polian through Butler and how many good NFL minds were here. Ralph was selfish and wouldn't pay as it was his way or the highway and once that talent left he couldn't get it back

Corta that’s impossible! Ralph being cheap is the first answer to every Buffalo Bills related question. The second is of course Zach Ertz. 

[Logic]

Not sure if this has been said yet, but:

 

I believe that Eric Moulds was every bit as good as his draft classmates Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison, and that the Bills more or less ruined what would have been a Hall of Fame caliber career almost anywhere else through a combination of bad quarterbacking, bad coaching, and overall organizational incompetence.