What’s your hottest Bills take?

[Doc Brown]

56 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Brandon Beane needs to do less retaining of Drafted players.

 

Guys like Dawson Knox, Terrel Bernard, Greg Rousseau, Ed Oliver, and Tyler Bass for example shouldn't have gotten second contracts - in my opinion.

 

Extensions save us a little in cap space in the moment, but never enough to do something major in the Free Agent and Trade market and prohibits our Cap Space in later years - preventing us from back loading contracts.

 

Before FA opened, everyone discussed the (often unrealistic) things they'd like to see us do. I pointed to the fact that Benford, Shakir, Cook, Rousseau, and Bernard's contracts were coming up and he'd want to do some of those. Multiple people said they shouldn't be a thought. Go all in on guys like DK Metcalf, Myles Garrett (who ended up not available), D.J. Reed, Milton Williams, Jevon Holland, etc. and worry about those guys later.

 

While I knew that wasn't realistic or what I'd do, even I didn't see us retaining 4 of that 5 and maybe all 5 when it's all said and done. To me, guys like Rousseau and Bernard could have been upgraded from or replaced with Draft Picks.

 

Long story short, it feels like far too often Beane is focusing on retaining good to pretty good players at the cost of going out and getting great players.

Overspending in free agency has a terrible track record.  Extending good players you drafted on team friendly deal a year before they hit free agency has a much better track record.  Benford, Shakir, and Rousseau could've been one of those overpaid free agents next year so extending them now giving them financial security entering next season is good business.  I wasn't a huge fan of the Bernard re-signing but who am I to question McBeane.  The main criticism of Beane is his inability to draft true game wrecker elite playoffs in the draft besides Allen.  However, besides Metcalf, there just wasn't a realistic opportunity to get one of those guys this free agent cycle.  Need to nail the draft.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Extending good players you drafted on team friendly deal a year before they hit free agency has a much better track record

Really?

 

Players we extended early.

 

Josh

Diggs

Tre White

Brown

 

Is 50-50 a much better track record?

 

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Brandon Beane needs to do less retaining of Drafted players.

 

Guys like Dawson Knox, Terrel Bernard, Greg Rousseau, Ed Oliver, and Tyler Bass for example shouldn't have gotten second contracts - in my opinion.

 

Extensions save us a little in cap space in the moment, but never enough to do something major in the Free Agent and Trade market and prohibits our Cap Space in later years - preventing us from back loading contracts.

 

Before FA opened, everyone discussed the (often unrealistic) things they'd like to see us do. I pointed to the fact that Benford, Shakir, Cook, Rousseau, and Bernard's contracts were coming up and he'd want to do some of those. Multiple people said they shouldn't be a thought. Go all in on guys like DK Metcalf, Myles Garrett (who ended up not available), D.J. Reed, Milton Williams, Jevon Holland, etc. and worry about those guys later.

 

While I knew that wasn't realistic or what I'd do, even I didn't see us retaining 4 of that 5 and maybe all 5 when it's all said and done. To me, guys like Rousseau and Bernard could have been upgraded from or replaced with Draft Picks.

 

Long story short, it feels like far too often Beane is focusing on retaining good to pretty good players at the cost of going out and getting great players.

There's also the point where Beane extending his own looks better for....Beane.

 

Beane drafting Rousseau and paying him $20M AAV looks better to Terry than drafting Rousseau and letting him walk like Edmunds.

 

Hell, look at the positive response our offseason has gotten from the national media. We spent like 90% of our money on paying guys who weren't even pending free agents and got like A- grades on how we improved the team lol

Edited Sunday at 12:55 PM by FireChans

[Solomon Grundy]

On 4/11/2025 at 5:54 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I think this is a fun offseason topic. What is your spiciest BIlls take? What is it that you believe that will trigger Bills fans?

 

I think Jim Kelly is one of the most overrated players in history. He was a very good QB. Historically, he was Jalen Hurts. Kirk Cousins numbers dwarf Kelly’s. He was the steward of an elite offense and did well with it. I am fine with him in the HOF but there are 30-40 QBs better.

 

What is your spicy take?

And Troy Aikman was worse yet he has 3 SB rings. 

[Dr. Who]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Really?

 

Players we extended early.

 

Josh

Diggs

Tre White

Brown

 

Is 50-50 a much better track record?

 

There's also the point where Beane extending his own looks better for....Beane.

 

Beane drafting Rousseau and paying him $20M AAV looks better to Terry than drafting Rousseau and letting him walk like Edmunds.

 

Hell, look at the positive response our offseason has gotten from the national media. We spent like 90% of our money on paying guys who weren't even pending free agents and got like A- grades on how we improved the team lol

It's obviously a prudential calculation. My sense is that FA has changed somewhat. It is rarely an opportunity to grab a player that will have transformative effect. The best players just don't become available. In that case, retaining players that fit your system and that you have reasonable confidence are either ascending, or likely to retain most of their efficacy while the contract is hard to get out of, is the most rational approach.

 

No doubt, it would be a more palatable method if Beane hit on a few elite playmakers early in the draft.

[Solomon Grundy]

On 4/11/2025 at 6:09 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

 

That’s what makes it spicy. Kelly isn’t in the league with Josh. 
 

edit: I can also tell how old someone is or how long they’ve followed the Bills by their Kelly takes. He was a borderline, top 5 player on those teams. He was Jalen Hurts. If you think he was better than that it is because your dad told you that. I never saw OJ play but my dad insists, with the possible exceptions of Bruce and Josh, he’s the best Bills player ever. Tom Sestak carries that status too for a lot of older folks. Kelly was better as a memory than as a player. He was closer to Fitz than to Josh.

Different era of football. Kelly wasn't the most athletic QB in history, but was tough as nails and perfect for Buffalo. Do we forget the numbers he put up in the USFL? Imagine if they ran that offense in Buffalo 

On 4/11/2025 at 6:09 PM, Pete said:

Jim cost us one Superbowl

I blame Marv Levy for all of the losses

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

And Troy Aikman was worse yet he has 3 SB rings. 

Troy didn't have more INT's than TDs in the postseason.

 

Troy in his 3 SB runs had 17 TD passes and 4 picks.

 

Jim in his 4 SB runs had 13 TDs and 16 picks.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Troy didn't have more INT's than TDs in the postseason.

 

Troy in his 3 SB runs had 17 TD passes and 4 picks.

 

Jim in his 4 SB runs had 13 TDs and 16 picks.

Aikman relied more on his running game and TE in those SB games. Johnson>Levy

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

It's obviously a prudential calculation. My sense is that FA has changed somewhat. It is rarely an opportunity to grab a player that will have transformative effect. The best players just don't become available. In that case, retaining players that fit your system and that you have reasonable confidence are either ascending, or likely to retain most of their efficacy while the contract is hard to get out of, is the most rational approach.

 

No doubt, it would be a more palatable method if Beane hit on a few elite playmakers early in the draft.

It's changed but I'm not sure it's changed all that much.

 

10 years ago, the best players to hit FA were Darrel Revis at 30 years old and Suh.  Both very good players but not the best of the best at that point in time, with some warts (Revis - age and Suh - everything else about him).

 

The days of free agents "resetting the market" wasn't all that common in the first place. It's probably less so now, because players rightly or wrongly seem to get their money first then demand out.

 

But the benefit of signing mid to upper-tier FAs over extending players that are already under contract is that only one of those methods improves your team's talent.

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Aikman relied more on his running game and TE in those SB games. Johnson>Levy

Aikman from 92-95 had 11 less passes thrown than Kelly from 90-93.  Both had 11 starts.

 

Aikman from 92-95 had a passer rating of 106. Kelly from 90-93 had a rating of 77.

 

Aikman was a regular season dud who turned into a postseason stud. Kelly was the opposite.

[BillsPride12]

10 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

90’s Bills fandom was awesome, but there’s too many bandwagon fans these days. 

To an extent I blame this on social media

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

It's changed but I'm not sure it's changed all that much.

 

10 years ago, the best players to hit FA were Darrel Revis at 30 years old and Suh.  Both very good players but not the best of the best at that point in time, with some warts (Revis - age and Suh - everything else about him).

 

The days of free agents "resetting the market" wasn't all that common in the first place. It's probably less so now, because players rightly or wrongly seem to get their money first then demand out.

 

But the benefit of signing mid to upper-tier FAs over extending players that are already under contract is that only one of those methods improves your team's talent.

I see your point. The counter is that you are likely to lose some of the players you retained, and there is genuine risk that you won't end up with a replacement that is equal in value. You draft on potential, but when you miss, the hole in the roster is still there.

 

I don't think there is a theoretical position without flaws, and it will always ultimately come down to the individual judgment of the fella building the team. Beane is more of a cautious, steady kind of architect. He likes the bird-in-hand. You can plausibly argue that is too safe. I think he stepped outside his comfort zone to gamble on Miller, and got burned.

 

He still needs to be willing to be daring, whether that means a significant trade up if the opportunity for the right player arises, or accepting less depth to prioritize players with elite potential.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Again, looking back at that SB in Tampa the NY Giants vs the Buffalo Bills. The Bills were nearly 20-point favorites to win that game. To most, it was a foregone conclusion that Buffalo would win. Partying or not.

 

What most didn't see was that Giants HC Bill Parcells had a secret weapon as his DC in Bill Belichick and his ability to move the ball on the ground against anyone.

 

Let's also not forget that the Bills had beaten the Giants that season in week 14, 13-17 IN Giants stadium. Their starting QB Phill Simms was injured and out for that SB while their backup QB that nobody had ever heard of was starting in Jeff Hostetler. 

 

The 1990 Buffalo Bills were the highest-scoring in the entire NFL offense that season. The 13-3 Buffalo Bills had just beaten the 12-4 Los Angeles Raiders 51-3 in the AFC Championship game. 

 

To me, that SB loss was on the Buffalo coaching. But then, the entire world was thinking the Giants didn't stand a chance. 

 

Yup.  Should have run Thurman more and enforced a curfew the night before.

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

In that same conversation you were pretending Ryan Fitzpatrick knew more about the play than Josh Allen. 

No, this never happened.

 

You simply did not read what I what wrote. Which you often do. You ignore half of a persons post and in haste rush to post your opinion.

 

Because in *your* mind, only your opinion matters. Only you are right. Therefore, you should disqualify most of what another person says so you can quickly post the right opinion (yours).
 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't need to debate whether Josh made an incorrect protection call.

 

No one debated that. Again, you did not read what I wrote. 
 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It isn't a subject open for debate.

It never was a subject of debate.

Again, you simply do not. read. other. peoples. posts.

It was pretty simple:
 

1) I said Josh made the wrong protection call—but that it didn’t matter.

2) You disagreed, saying Josh made the wrong call.

3) I responded: huh? I already admitted he made the wrong call; my point was that it didn’t matter.

4) You disagreed again, insisting Josh made the wrong call.

5) At this point, I realized you were back to your old habit of not actually carefully before responding. Again, despite Allen making the wrong call, it didn't matter—because as Ryan Fitzpatrick pointed out, even the correct protection call would have had no chance at blocking the blitz due to the personnel the Bills had on the field.

In summary, you:

1) Did not read what I wrote and in haste rushed to respond - multiple times. 
2) Completely misrepresented what Ryan Fitzpatrick said (he never said Josh didn't make the wrong protection call) because you refuse to read the posts you respond to.

 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You talk about red herring fallacy and then post this?!? Of course nobody would take that deal. But that is a red herring because that deal doesn't exist.

Hypothetical thought experiments are NOT red herring fallacies. They, by their nature, serve to test principles or explore implications logically. The primary goal of a red herring is to divert attention and avoid addressing the main point of contention. I was attacking the main point of contention via a thought experiment. This is psychology 101. 

As for the point I was making to Stevewin, I mostly agree with him. I was, however, conducting a thought experiment on how far he was willing to take his stance however.

 

Edited Sunday at 03:17 PM by Einstein

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

No, this never happened.

 

You simply did not read what I what wrote. Which you often do. You ignore half of a persons post and in haste rush to post your opinion.

 

Because in *your* mind, only your opinion matters. Only you are right. Therefore, you should disqualify most of what another person says so you can quickly post the right opinion (yours).
 

 

No one debated that. Again, you did not read what I wrote. 

I said that Josh made the wrong protection call.
 

It never was a subject of debate.

Again, you simply do not. read. other. peoples. posts.

It was pretty simple:
 

1) I said Josh made the wrong protection call—but that it didn’t matter.

2) You disagreed, saying Josh made the wrong call.

3) I responded: huh? I already admitted he made the wrong call; my point was it didn’t matter.

4) You disagreed again, insisting Josh made the wrong call.

5) At this point, I realized you were back to your old habit of not reading carefully before responding. Again, despite Allen making the wrong call, it didn't matter—because as Ryan Fitzpatrick pointed out, even the correct call wouldn't have blocked that blitz given the Bills' personnel on the field.

In summary, you:

1) Did not read what I wrote and in haste rushed to respond - multiple times. 
2) Completely misrepresented what Ryan Fitzpatrick said (he never said Josh didnt make the wrong protection call) because you refuse to read the posts you respond to.
3) Proved once again in this thread that you don't read posts and just rush to stick your opinions into everything without knowing what you're responding to.

 

Uh, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Hypothetical thought experiments are NOT red herring fallacies. They, by their nature, serve to test principles or explore implications logically. The primary goal of a red herring is to divert attention and avoid addressing the main point of contention. I was attacking the main point of contention via a thought experiment. This is psychology 101. 

As for the point I was making to Stevewin, I mostly agree with him. I was, however, conducting a thought experiment on how far he was willing to take his stance however.

 

 

I did read your post. And I did also say that the Chiefs had the playcall designed to beat the Bills play call. 

 

But if you think Spencer Brown losing that rep was a bigger fault than the blown protection call I don't know what to tell you. 

 

And a hypotehtical thought experiement can be a red herring fallacy when it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. It was totally irrelvant to Steve's point as to whether he would take your hypothetical deal. 

[Einstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I did read your post. And I did also say that the Chiefs had the playcall designed to beat the Bills play call. 

 

If you read my post then in no universe would you say "you were pretending Ryan Fitzpatrick knew more about the play than Josh Allen" - because that *never* happened. Fitz and Allen were talking about two completely different aspects of the play.

Nor would you say "We don't need to debate whether Josh made an incorrect protection call"  - because that was *never* the debate. Well, in your mind it was, because you were not reding what I was writing. I never once in that thread claimed Allen did not make the wrong protection call. I stated that he did, but it did not matter, because of what Fitz said.

You either:

a: did not read my posts
b: completely misrepresented my posts

Take your pick I guess.
 

Just now, GunnerBill said:

And a hypotehtical thought experiement can be a red herring fallacy when it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. It was totally irrelvant to Steve's point as to whether he would take your hypothetical deal. 

Except it wasn't.

Below, however, is actual red herring fallacy. As I already mentioned but will allow AI to prove:


 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

If you read my post then in no universe would you say "you were pretending Ryan Fitzpatrick knew more about the play than Josh Allen" - because that *never* happened. Fitz and Allen were talking about two completely different aspects of the play.

Nor would you say "We don't need to debate whether Josh made an incorrect protection call"  - because that was *never* the debate. Well, in your mind it was, because you were not reding what I was writing. I never once in that thread claimed Allen did not make the wrong protection call. I stated that he did, but it did not matter, because of what Fitz said.

You either:

a: did not read my posts
b: completely misrepresented my posts

Take your pick I guess.
 

Except it wasn't.

 

On first point I was clearly being facetious about the Fitz point. I was using the rhetorical device of mimicking your phraseology back to you. Because I never said "I know more than Ryan Fitzpatrick" either. 

 

On the second point - fine - I am no pyschologist so you and Chat GPT got me there. But your "thought experiment" was clearly an attempt to undermine what was a perfectly sensible and rational point. Call that what you may. It was foolish.

[Nihilarian]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

My hot take: 

 

Kelly couldn't scramble or run like Josh, but his ball placement was better and he made quicker decisions.  

Just think of that offense with Jim Kelly throwing to Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, and Thurman running, catching balls outta the back field. He was Marshall Faulk before Marshall Faulk. That 90's Buffalo Bills team was the greatest show on turf that season...woulda, shoulda, coulda...

[Fetou]

No team will never win a championship with Pegula ownership. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Just think of that offense with Jim Kelly throwing to Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, and Thurman running, catching balls outta the back field. He was Marshall Faulk before Marshall Faulk. That 90's Buffalo Bills team was the greatest show on turf that season...woulda, shoulda, coulda...

 

I think some folks undervalue Jim but I have to admit, I sorely wish Josh was surrounded with the kind of talent that surrounded Kelly.  We had a solid OL and HOFers in every skill position group.  

[chris heff]

On 4/11/2025 at 6:03 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

We should have built a dome 

Downtown 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, chris heff said:

Downtown 

I heard it was gonna be in Batavia....