Who are the most overrated and underrated Bills?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

He's a slot receiver. 

He is top 5 at his position (as you mentioned). How is that overrated? 

 

You're making a generalization that people think he's an elite outside receiver. No one thinks that. 

 

I have had two conversations in the last two weeks with posters here who still want to argue he can play outside (not permanently but as a move receiver) and one person even said they expect him to be used next season "more like Diggs was for us."

 

Maybe that is a minority and it influences my pick because it is recent but I do think consistently since he arrived there have been Bills fans predicting him to be something he hasn't been. I think he is what he is. My season prediction for him last season was absolutely spot on the money. But if you go back to that thread there were a lot of people predicting over 1,000 yards. 

 

[HOUSE]

Over rated-  Josh Allen

Under rated -Mike White

[warrior9]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I have had two conversations in the last two weeks with posters here who still want to argue he can play outside (not permanently but as a move receiver) and one person even said they expect him to be used next season "more like Diggs was for us."

 

Maybe that is a minority and it influences my pick because it is recent but I do think consistently since he arrived there have been Bills fans predicting him to be something he hasn't been. I think he is what he is. My season prediction for him last season was absolutely spot on the money. But if you go back to that thread there were a lot of people predicting over 1,000 yards. 

 

Fair. I know he's a slot guy and he's DAMN good there. 

I think with a better Coleman and Palmer on the outside , he plays more there and has better numbers this year . 

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

He's a slot receiver. 

He is top 5 at his position (as you mentioned). How is that overrated? 

 

You're making a generalization that people think he's an elite outside receiver. No one thinks that. 

 

Similar to Taron Johnson. He's not an outside corner, he's a nickle corner. There are 25 better outside corners than him but not nickles. 

He’s overrated because he’s the Bills top receiving option. I’m not sure that this is confusing? If you look at him through the lens of the slot, I agree. There are HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of posts on this board overrating him. He’s a great slot, as is Taron. That’s not as important as someone on the outside (unless you’re Amon-Ra St. Brown). Shakir is a role player, and a good one. He should absolutely, 100% not be the top receiving target on a championship type of team. The Bills have acted if that’s okay to this point. 
 

Now, his extension is a good one and commensurate with the level of player that he is. $15M AAV is what a good complementary piece, at a less important position makes. 
 

I am in no way disparaging Shakir. He’s a top 10 player on this team and arguably a top 5 player at his position. He’s a great role player. He absolutely has become overrated to Bills fans as was Mack Hollins (who is just a guy) and Ty Johnson who is another quality role player on a good contract. We shouldn’t confuse important pieces with difference makers. Shakir isn’t a difference maker. He’s a rich man’s Beasley.

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

Fair. I know he's a slot guy and he's DAMN good there. 

I think with a better Coleman and Palmer on the outside , he plays more there and has better numbers this year . 

Where would you rank Coleman and Palmer as a boundary duo? I don’t think that they are top 30. 

[warrior9]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s overrated because he’s the Bills top receiving option. I’m not sure that this is confusing? If you look at him through the lens of the slot, I agree. There are HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of posts on this board overrating him. He’s a great slot, as is Taron. That’s not as important as someone on the outside (unless you’re Amon-Ra St. Brown). Shakir is a role player, and a good one. He should absolutely, 100% not be the top receiving target on a championship type of team. The Bills have acted if that’s okay to this point. 
 

Now, his extension is a good one and commensurate with the level of player that he is. $15M AAV is what a good complementary piece, at a less important position makes. 
 

I am in no way disparaging Shakir. He’s a top 10 player on this team and arguably a top 5 player at his position. He’s a great role player. He absolutely has become overrated to Bills fans as was Mack Hollins (who is just a guy) and Ty Johnson who is another quality role player on a good contract. We shouldn’t confuse important pieces with difference makers. Shakir isn’t a difference maker. He’s a rich man’s Beasley.

So being 4th in YAC isn't difference maker? There are SEVERAL games lose without him last year. I disagree with your take but it's your opinion, that's fine. 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

So being 4th in YAC isn't difference maker? There are SEVERAL games lose without him last year. I disagree with your take but it's your opinion, that's fine. 

4th in YAC is great; it resulted in the 84th most YPC. That’s the point!! His routes are designed for YAC. He’s tough and has elite hands. He’s really good after the catch. I’m not overrating that though because when you catch screens and other short routes you should have more YAC, than Josh Palmer, for example who is catching the ball down the field. Shakir is good at what he does. He’s a role player not a difference maker. 

[killshot]

overrated : Dawson Knox , gets paid like a starer and an awesome run blocker and he is neither.

underrated : Ty Johnson 

 

[Rocky Landing]

Bills fans:

Overrated-- Ray Davis

Underrated-- Tyler Rapp

 

Media:

Overrated-- Daquan Jones

Underrated-- Ty Johnson

 

[Rocky Landing]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

4th in YAC is great; it resulted in the 84th most YPC. That’s the point!! His routes are designed for YAC. He’s tough and has elite hands. He’s really good after the catch. I’m not overrating that though because when you catch screens and other short routes you should have more YAC, than Josh Palmer, for example who is catching the ball down the field. Shakir is good at what he does. He’s a role player not a difference maker. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Eh? He was not abysmal in the playoffs. 

Is worse than abysmal better terminology? 

Lost in the shuffle of Torrence doing absolutely *nothing* on that fateful 4th and 5, was Spencer Brown getting absolutely WORKED by Karlaftis.

Josh scrambling to his right may have actually worked to buy him time away from the 2 free rushers if it wasn't for the fact that Spencer did such a horrible job on Karlaftis on the edge.

If Spencer did his job, Allen could have escaped to the edge and bought a second or two more despite the two free rushers. And this doesnt even go into the times he was blown right past by Chris Jones.
 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein said:

Is worse than abysmal better terminology? 

Lost in the shuffle of Torrence doing absolutely *nothing* on that fateful 4th and 5, was Spencer Brown getting absolutely WORKED by Karlaftis.

Josh scrambling to his right may have actually worked to buy him time away from the 2 free rushers if it wasn't for the fact that Spencer did such a horrible job on Karlaftis on the edge.

If Spencer did his job, Allen could have escaped to the edge and bought a second or two more despite the two free rushers. And this doesnt even go into the times he was blown right past by Chris Jones.
 

 

 

Karlaftis wins the rep but he is way out to the right. If the middle of the pocket stays in any way intact he has zero chance of getting anywhere near Josh. That was a failure of the protection call. Spags fooled Josh pre-snap and Josh made the wrong protection adjustment. Karlaftis only has even a slight chance of affecting that play because Josh ends up scrambling to him. 

 

And that is one play. His run blocking in the Kansas City game was awesome. And he was really good in the other two games. Saying he was abysmal in the playoffs because of that one rep - which was not even the biggest cause of failure on that play is a frankly ludicrous take.

[DapperCam]

Overrated: Dorian Williams (I think he’s a scrub), Kincaid

Underrated: Josh Allen, Spencer Brown, Dawson Knox

[Billl]

56 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think you’re making his point (and I like Shakir a lot). He’s a top 5 slot receiver. Bills fans sometimes act like he’s a top 10 receiver. He’s a more explosive Beasley. Shakir is a high end role player. He’s not an elite receiver. 

Part of it comes down to what constitutes a slot receiver.  There were only 21 players (excluding TEs) who lined up in the slot at least 50% of the time.  If that’s your definition, he’s probably in the 7-8 range (depending on how you rank him among guys like McConkey, Godwin, Kupp, Jennings, Smith-Njigba, Reed, Boyd, Thielen).  If you expand that to those with at least 40% of their snaps from the slot, there are 40 players, and Shakir’s maybe 25th best.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Not following the point?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Overrated 

Joe andreessen

 

underrated

Taylor Rapp

[HOUSE]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Overrated 

Joe andreessen

 

underrated

Taylor Rapp

Overrated Taylor Rapp

Underrated Joe Andreessen

[Pete]

3 hours ago, T.E. said:

Really? It seems like he's a fan favorite despite not doing anything of real significance.

 

Overrated - Dorian Williams

Underrated - O'Cyrus Torrence

On opening kickoff, Bills-Jets 2023, (MNF?), Gilliam perfectly timed, violently hit Jets returner, we get ball, what an opening statement!  Its good that some appreciate Reggie.  Ive read many want to cut him, year after year, for cap savings.  Reggie Gilliam is a swiss knife.   He played about 18% of offensive plays in the playoffs.  He lines up FB or TE.  He is very good athlete.  Punishing blocker.  Great protector of Josh.  Reggie has had some catches and TDs in big spots.  Hes a core special teamer.  In 2024 Gilliam led Bills with 330 ST snaps.  And in 2023 with 365 snaps.  Kudos Reggie Gilliam

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Who would you pick? 

Overrated: Ed Oliver

Underrated: Ray Davis

 

I always list a defensive and offensive player for these. Also, I wanted to state that just because I list a guy as “overrated” doesn’t mean that I am not happy with said player on team. I love having Damar Hamlin, but also could agree that he is a liability at times and lacks the play making ability to be anything more than capable depth.

 

Overrated = James Cook is an excellent RB, but not worth 15 million a year. As a pure runner, he is top level. I love the way he glides through holes along w/ his underrated speed/burst. I also see an underwhelming pass protector/blocker. He’s a decent receiver, but not beyond the confines of your average NFL RB. A reliable outlet for Josh, but you won’t catch him splitting out much. 

 

Underrated = The Bills became an absolute force in the run game when they were able to snag McGovern in the 2023 offseason to take over for the much maligned Saffold. I feel like an honorable mention should go to David Edwards who was acquired in the FA class as well. Both of these men instantly injected the line with some much needed physicality & consistency.

 

 

 Overrated = Gregarious Rousseau. I am gonna get sh!t for my “overrated” pick, but I had to choose one. Rousseau is a good player and we are much better off with him than without. With that being said, the Bills have not been hitting with enough consistency on those top picks so it’s a relief to have one of them work out once in a while. I just can’t help but think about what this defense would be like with truly elite pass rusher like Hendrickson, Garrett, or Micah Parsons. I truly think we would’ve had at least one SB wrapped up by now if the Von Miller acquisition worked out. 

Underrated = Ed Oliver. I think even McDermott would tell you that this guy is the unsung glue that keeps this defense a top 10 unit year in & year out. People will argue that he doesn’t take over enough games, but what help does he really have? The DQJ extension was a total flop. Time for Buffalo to stop Fing around and grab a top DT prospect. I’m hoping Beane moves up in the 1st round if someone with blue chip potential falls past pick #20.

[Freddie's Dead]

Overrated:  Sam Martin

Underrated:  Tyler Bass"o'Matic"

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Karlaftis wins the rep but he is way out to the right. If the middle of the pocket stays in any way intact he has zero chance of getting anywhere near Josh.

It's almost like the Chiefs read our tendencies like a book... Karlaftis schooled Spencer on that rep. And Spencer should have known that he needed to protect the bail-out when he saw two free rushers coming to his left. 

In a nut-shell. Spencer: Saw 2 free rushers to his left - did nothing. Saw Karlaftis beat him to his right  (where Allen always bails) - did nothing. He was horrible that rep and horrible for a decent portion of that game in pass pro.

As for his run blocking, it's always been good. It was his pass blocking that was an issue. And he resolved much of that issue this year -  until the playoffs. 

I know you've been beating the "Josh was fooled" drum since after the game ended, but I disagreed then and I disagree now. Well, actually, let me back up. I *do* think Josh was fooled in the mind-frame that he thought they were coming left. However, what I disagree with is that it mattered.

 

Ryan Fitzpatirck, who has forgotten more about football than either of us will ever know, stated clearly that Allen had no chance on that play - EVEN IF he had slid protection right. Fitz said that there was simply no way to block what the Chiefs sent with the personnel we had on the field. And I agree with him. 

 

 

Edited April 5 by Einstein