Joe Buscaglia likes Harmon over Grant

[gobills404]

The fact that there’s so many Bills fans who think that drafting a fat NT in the first round will help us get over the hump in the playoffs is legitimately insane to me. It’s like they’re living in an alternate dimension where our pass defense isn’t the biggest flaw in the playoffs .

 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 minute ago, gobills404 said:

The fact that there’s so many Bills fans who think that drafting a fat NT in the first round will help us get over the hump in the playoffs is legitimately insane to me. It’s like they’re living in an alternate dimension where our pass defense isn’t the biggest flaw in the playoffs .

 

I can understand the opinion that a second solid starting CB may help the team more. But the fact does remain that right now we have Daquan Jones starting and literally no one behind him.

 

Can't even take him off the field and in my opinion, he shouldn't even be on the team anymore. Week 1 we only have Ed Oliver, Daquan Jones, and Dewayne Carter at DT. That's it. Unless you want to rely on Branson Deen and Zion Logue from the Practice Squad.

[Buffalo716]

36 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Dane Jackson was a decent return for a 7th Round Pick - comparable to what you traditionally get from a 7th Rounder. Which is generally a player who doesn't even make your 53. 

 

He's not a quality starting CB. We weren't doing ourselves any favors starting him. We never paid him more than 2.1m a year. When the Panthers wanted to give him a 2 yr. contract with 5.1m in guarantees, we let them have him. And they cut him after one year.

 

He's back on a 1 year deal because he knows the system and is a decent depth replacement for Elam. And because he's coming closer to his value. Which is 1.33m for a year.

 

This idea that "hey, he got quality starters out of Jackson and Wallace for a 7th and an Undrafted shot in the dark" is overblown. Yes, he got good return on investment. But let's not act like having either of them starting for us was a great scenario. Both were liabilities that were average at best and bad at worst. And as soon as anyone wanted to pay more than a couple mil a year for them, we let them walk. As we should have.

 

You want to do better than Dane Jackson.

It's not about if he's a good starter or not lol first of all three quarters of your team is depth players 

 

And I'm not even talking about current Dane Jackson.. I'm saying the development of him as a 7th round pick was successful and he beat the average NFL career

 

As a 7th round pick he certainly is considered a good pick considering the average length of an NFL career is like 3 years.. there are worse role players in the NFL

 

Same with Levi Wallace that is great development of an undrafted free agent it doesn't matter if he's a really good right now 

 

The bills developed and got quality play out of him and he also played for another NFL team and started some games.. the bills 10 years ago used to cut guys and that was the end of the road...

 

Levi Wallace is certainly a success story at the NFL level and McDermott does get credit for developing him 

 

 

Edited April 6 by Buffalo716

[gobills404]

14 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I can understand the opinion that a second solid starting CB may help the team more. But the fact does remain that right now we have Daquan Jones starting and literally no one behind him.

 

Can't even take him off the field and in my opinion, he shouldn't even be on the team anymore. Week 1 we only have Ed Oliver, Daquan Jones, and Dewayne Carter at DT. That's it. Unless you want to rely on Branson Deen and Zion Logue from the Practice Squad.

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but drafting a backup/rotational DT in the first round just seems crazy to me.  

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but drafting a backup/rotational DT in the first round just seems crazy to me.  

 

You wouldn't be Drafting him as a Backup. At least not in my eyes and those who are advocating for it.

 

Daquan Jones absolutely shouldn't be starting for us. Maybe he could rotate in occasionally as a Backup. But preferably and more likely, he'd be a Post June 1 cut. He was abysmal last season and has very likely hit the wall.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's not about if he's a good starter or not lol first of all three quarters of your team is depth players 

 

And I'm not even talking about current Dane Jackson.. I'm saying the development of him as a 7th round pick was successful and he beat the average NFL career

 

As a 7th round pick he certainly is considered a good pick considering the average length of an NFL career is like 3 years.. there are worse role players in the NFL

 

Same with Levi Wallace that is great development of an undrafted free agent it doesn't matter if he's a really good right now 

 

The bills developed and got quality play out of him and he also played for another NFL team and started some games.. the bills 10 years ago used to cut guys and that was the end of the road...

 

Levi Wallace is certainly a success story at the NFL level and McDermott does get credit for developing him 

 

Perhaps you weren't who I should be replying to. The discussion of his development is used to say you don't need to Draft a CB until Day 3. Like he can turn any CB into a Starter.

 

When the truth is that Dane Jackson is not a good starter. Levi Wallace was not a good starter. They were placeholders that we always tried to Draft replacements for and walked away from the second someone offered more than a couple million. And each of them would go on to get cut in quick succession by the teams that did.

 

For every very good CB Drafted and developed in Tre White, Christian Benford, and Taron Johnson there's been a Kaiir Elam, Alex Austin, Rachad Wildgoose, Dane Jackson, and Daequan Hardy.

 

For every Levi Wallace, Cam Lewis, and Ja'Marcus Ingram - there's been countless UDFA's that went the way of most UDFA's. And again, none of them are good starters. Just decent depth players.

 

All this to say that this idea that McDermott is such a good developer of CB talent that he can turn anyone into a good starter isn't true. Just like any position, you might get lucky. But the odds are against it.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Perhaps you weren't who I should be replying to. The discussion of his development is used to say you don't need to Draft a CB until Day 3. Like he can turn any CB into a Starter.

 

When the truth is that Dane Jackson is not a good starter. Levi Wallace was not a good starter. They were placeholders that we always tried to Draft replacements for and walked away from the second someone offered more than a couple million. And each of them would go on to get cut in quick succession by the teams that did.

 

For every very good CB Drafted and developed in Tre White, Christian Benford, and Taron Johnson there's been a Kaiir Elam, Alex Austin, Rachad Wildgoose, Dane Jackson, and Daequan Hardy.

 

For every Levi Wallace, Cam Lewis, and Ja'Marcus Ingram - there's been countless UDFA's that went the way of most UDFA's. And again, none of them are good starters. Just decent depth players.

 

All this to say that this idea that McDermott is such a good developer of CB talent that he can turn anyone into a good starter isn't true. Just like any position, you might get lucky. But the odds are against it.

 

You have Dane in the wrong list. He is in thr Wallace, Lewis, Ingram list. Late round or UDFAs who are serviceable. Alex Austin has actually been that in the league too but we lost him at cut downs and I don't think you can give the Bills the credit for his development particularly. 

 

I get your point totally. Relying on a day 3 guy and McDermott to make wine from water is not a strategy. It's a hope. They have left themselves in a spot where they very likely need a corner within the first two rounds of this draft if they want better than absolute baseline serviceable starter play from Jackson. 

 

I think they will pick one at #30. But they shouldn't force one. Best player available at a premium spot is still the right law to live by.

[Buffalo716]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Perhaps you weren't who I should be replying to. The discussion of his development is used to say you don't need to Draft a CB until Day 3. Like he can turn any CB into a Starter.

 

When the truth is that Dane Jackson is not a good starter. Levi Wallace was not a good starter. They were placeholders that we always tried to Draft replacements for and walked away from the second someone offered more than a couple million. And each of them would go on to get cut in quick succession by the teams that did.

 

For every very good CB Drafted and developed in Tre White, Christian Benford, and Taron Johnson there's been a Kaiir Elam, Alex Austin, Rachad Wildgoose, Dane Jackson, and Daequan Hardy.

 

For every Levi Wallace, Cam Lewis, and Ja'Marcus Ingram - there's been countless UDFA's that went the way of most UDFA's. And again, none of them are good starters. Just decent depth players.

 

All this to say that this idea that McDermott is such a good developer of CB talent that he can turn anyone into a good starter isn't true. Just like any position, you might get lucky. But the odds are against it.

Every single team has placeholders at some positions 

 

No team has 22 long-term starters at every single spot.. the way the NFL works with the salary cap you just can't do that 

 

Even the best teams will have a few weak links.. there's always a few placeholders playing 

 

The difference is if you have the 110th ranked placeholder playing or the 50th ranked placeholder...

 

Levi Wallace's second year here where he played 75% of the snaps.. most of his advanced metrics were all in the top 40 to 60 for an NFL corner 

 

So not great.. but every single team plays three corners a lot.. 32 * 3 is 96.. he was squarely in the top two thirds at his best in McDermott's scheme 

 

We shouldn't have paid him and we didn't but we also did get good value out of an undrafted placeholder that's true too

 

There's always going to be a couple of placeholders on your team.. it's about having the one that fits your scheme plays hard and is not a massive liability 

 

Levi Wallace was 10th in the NFL in yards per route allowed in 19..  49th in breakups , 38th average Target separation, 44th routes defended, 49th yards allowed 

 

Again if you're talking about a top 15 corner not great stats.. for a platoon corner ... it was steady.. especially when there was 130 cornerbacks with enough snaps to be graded and he was typically 35-60 ranked 

 

Again I'm not saying I want Levi Wallace I'm saying Sean McDermott did get the most out of him

 

 

Edited April 6 by Buffalo716

[BillsFanForever19]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You have Dane in the wrong list. He is in thr Wallace, Lewis, Ingram list. Late round or UDFAs who are serviceable. Alex Austin has actually been that in the league too but we lost him at cut downs and I don't think you can give the Bills the credit for his development particularly. 

 

I get your point totally. Relying on a day 3 guy and McDermott to make wine from water is not a strategy. It's a hope. They have left themselves in a spot where they very likely need a corner within the first two rounds of this draft if they want better than absolute baseline serviceable starter play from Jackson. 

 

I think they will pick one at #30. But they shouldn't force one. Best player available at a premium spot is still the right law to live by.

 

Dane is in the Drafted list to show that of the 8 CB's that were Drafted, they came away with 3 that were good starters. The idea that so many posters have that "McDermott can turn water into wine", as you put it, with any CB Drafted anywhere drives me up a wall. It's simply not true.

 

And even examples like Dane Jackson, Levi Wallace, Cam Lewis, and Ja'Marcus Ingram isn't so much turning water into wine as turning water into soda. Yes, the return on investment of a 7th Rounder and UDFA into a serviceable NFL depth players is good. But you don't want any of those players starting.

 

I totally agree that they shouldn't force a pick at 30 if the value isn't there. But I really feel they need to walk away with a CB in the first Two Rounds somewhere. If the value isn't there at 30, go elsewhere. But if they feel someone they like won't be there at 56, they should move up a bit from there.

Edited April 7 by BillsFanForever19

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/4/2025 at 5:35 PM, BillsFan2313 said:

 

I wonder if Elam busting and Benford beasting gives them pause at drafting another 1st rd cb

They can be found in the later rounds. That's why I'd lean toward DT @ 30.

[Doc Brown]

On 4/6/2025 at 3:28 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You wouldn't be Drafting him as a Backup. At least not in my eyes and those who are advocating for it.

 

Daquan Jones absolutely shouldn't be starting for us. Maybe he could rotate in occasionally as a Backup. But preferably and more likely, he'd be a Post June 1 cut. He was abysmal last season and has very likely hit the wall.

He wasn't abysmal last season.  He was an average starting DT.  It would pry be an open competition for playing time in the rotation if they took a DT like Harmon in the draft.  Having said that, Jones could be a surprising cut as it would free up $5.5m in cap space.

[Mat68]

On 4/4/2025 at 11:54 AM, MikePJ76 said:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6253459/2025/04/04/bills-2025-nfl-draft-defensive-tackles/

 

Why Grant falls below Harmon all has to do with current third-down capabilities. At this point, Grant is more of a clean-up pass-rusher than one who disrupts the pocket, and early on in his career, he may be nothing more than an early-down asset who has to come off the field for obvious pass-rushing situations, though there is more of a nimbleness to his movement abilities than other massive one-technique run-stuffers. He’ll never dip and rip through blockers, but through his power and movement skills, there is a path to seeing him develop as an asset on third downs. It will take some projecting by the team that drafts him.

 

He suggests if Harmon is available in the 20's to trade up and go get him.

 

If Harmon is available in the mid-20s or at No. 30 for the Bills, it could be a slam-dunk investment for them. 

 

He mentions an interesting day 3 1 tech DT that I find pretty interesting, Jamaree Caldwell

 

Jamaree Caldwell, Oregon — Caldwell is a gap-plugging, space-eating, one-technique-only prospect at 332 pounds with a quick first step. There is some thought he would be best suited to the 0-technique role in a 3-4 defense, but he’s a clear strength as a run defender.

 

 

I agree with this.  If Beane drafts a DT in rd 1 they will have pass rush ability.  Many that do have pass rush ability are 3 techs and not a scheme fit with Ed.  Harmon has the size imo to hold up at 1 tech.  He can be disruptive in the backfield vs the run and offer pass rush ability.  The traditional nose tackles who are 2 down player will be the targets in rd 2.  

[TheBeaneBandit]

21 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I agree with this.  If Beane drafts a DT in rd 1 they will have pass rush ability.  Many that do have pass rush ability are 3 techs and not a scheme fit with Ed.  Harmon has the size imo to hold up at 1 tech.  He can be disruptive in the backfield vs the run and offer pass rush ability.  The traditional nose tackles who are 2 down player will be the targets in rd 2.  

Right on. Guys like Dexter Lawrence and Vita Vea although are 1 techs they offer enough help in the pass rush department to warrant a first round pick. Harmon and Grant are very close and just may warrant a pick at 30. Trade up? I'm not so sure.

[T master]

It could be a good thing that all of the hype is on Grant and not as much on Harmon, I'm sure other teams see Harmon in the same light but if more light is shining on Grant that means there is a better possibility of Harmon being available later in round 1 and we know Beane ain't scared to move to get the guy he wants !! 

 

Add that to what Cosell said about Harmon liking him better than Grant because of his strength and seems to be more NFL ready, because I don't watch enough college ball to know the difference but I'm in !! 

[JaCrispy]

On 4/6/2025 at 2:13 AM, gobills404 said:

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but drafting a backup/rotational DT in the first round just seems crazy to me.  

If he’s drafted in the first round, he won’t be the backup …he will start… Jones would then become the depth DT…

[JaCrispy]

16 minutes ago, T master said:

It could be a good thing that all of the hype is on Grant and not as much on Harmon, I'm sure other teams see Harmon in the same light but if more light is shining on Grant that means there is a better possibility of Harmon being available later in round 1 and we know Beane ain't scared to move to get the guy he wants !! 

 

Add that to what Cosell said about Harmon liking him better than Grant because of his strength and seems to be more NFL ready, because I don't watch enough college ball to know the difference but I'm in !! 

Wow, no use of punctuation in your last paragraph really changed the meaning of what you were attempting to say…

 

At first read, it seemed like you were saying that Harmon liked Cosell  more than Harmon liked Grant…😉

[T master]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Wow, no use of punctuation in your last paragraph really changed the meaning of what you were attempting to say…

 

At first read, it seemed like you were saying that Harmon liked Cosell  more than Harmon liked Grant…😉

Sorry I thought that by me saying "Add to that what Cosell said about Harmon liking him better than Grant" that it was pretty straight forward in what I was getting at, but I'll make sure to break out my English book next time and get the proper punctuation for this football web site so it is better understood by all, please accept my apologies !! 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, T master said:

Sorry I thought that by me saying "Add to that what Cosell said about Harmon liking him better than Grant" that it was pretty straight forward in what I was getting at, but I'll make sure to break out my English book next time and get the proper punctuation for this football web site so it is better understood by all, please accept my apologies !! 

 

Don't worry. None of you 'mericans use proper English anyway  

[T master]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't worry. None of you 'mericans use proper English anyway  

 

Dam strate  -  Merica 🤣

Edited April 8 by T master

[The Jokeman]

On 4/6/2025 at 2:13 AM, gobills404 said:

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but drafting a backup/rotational DT in the first round just seems crazy to me.  

What happens when Jones contracts end after 2025?