TSW 1.0 Poll - Who should the Bills select at #30 (Poll Closed)

[No_Matter_What]

29 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

My opinion on the defensive line discussion is that we just need good players who make an impact. I think we get a little too hung up on the 1 tech, 3 tech thing. Don't get me wrong, I do not think we should be looking for another 280 lb DT, but just get guys who penetrate and make plays. Guys like Chris Jones and Jalen Carter line up all over the place and dominate. 

 

It is similar to the WR discussion from last year about #1s and X receivers and all that....it doesn't matter, just draft impact players.

 

The bottom line is that this regime is very conservative. They draft for need high. They rotate a million defensive linemen in a way that drafting one high doesn't make a ton of sense if he is playing 20% of the snaps. I get it, the Eagles do it too. But Jalen Carter plays like 85% of the snaps on that team. Find a dude and let him play.  

 

I guess my point is that if they draft a DT high, I hope he is a dude and stays on the field. 

 

But Beane is drafting a corner because he drafts for need. Also, he just paid Benford, so he is going to look for a cheap starter to play opposite Benford for the next 4 years with that 5th year option. It's fine, but everyone knows they are drafting a corner and they need to hit on it. 

 

The reason he stinks early in the draft and does a nice job late in the draft is that later in the draft he seems to actually take BPA. There isn't much rhyme or reason to it, it's just pure BPA. That's how you wind up with guys like Shakir and Benford. I wish he would take the same approach at the top of the draft. His early drafting is deliberate and predictable. 

Absolutely this. That's why I will hate if he makes it AGAIN and drafts guy like Amos instead of guy like Nolen (I am not able to evaluate players myself, I am saying this based on consensus board and what good posters here say).

 

Stop drafting for need early, get the best players. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Why?

 

how many years does Ed have left of good but not great play? He’s gonna be 28 in December. He doesn’t strike me as a guy who is gonna play til 35

 

Because I think Ed is really good and while I like Nolen giving up on proven very good for possibly really good doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[2003Contenders]

While Amos may not be an exciting pick, I think he is a great fit for McD's defense (reminds me in some ways of Tre). He's a guy we draft, don't get much hype about it -- and then just sit back and watch him play at a quality level for the next several years.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

A first round corner is winning big,. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

I’m always fascinated by your line in the sand on this. As a hypothetical, if by some miracle, Jhadae Barron or Will Johnson fell to 30 would you be okay with it? They are both top 10 talents in this draft and play the 1 starting position that’s definitely available. Would you still be in the “hell no” category or does the value of the player make you comfortable enough?

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think Nolen is a better player and Amos a bigger need. 

Take the better player and figure it out later. 
 

Passing on Luka for Marcus Bagley for a better fit type beat.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, quincy said:

From the highlights earlier in the thread he plays both outside CB positions and he has a better chance of being a week one starter, as of now, versus Nolen.

 

I voted Amos for the same reason but also I disagree with that logic. This is where Beane has messed up before. Instead of taking the better player he takes the cleaner fit who fills a need. I don't want him to pass on Nolen because Oliver is already on the roster or because of minor character concerns. We desperately need high end talent. Nolen has a lot more upside than Amos IMO. Take the character risk and worry about his fit on the roster later.

 

And of course in this scenario Philly has Nolen fall into their laps. Beane taking a solid level CB while Howie Roseman takes the best talent is such a realistic outcome and I hate it.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

You have a point, but Sapp and Moss stuff was over smoking pot. Moss had a history of being a bad teammate. It seems the Green stuff is a little different on the off-field concerns spectrum. 

 

This regime will not touch that guy. 

 

Yeah there are different levels of character concerns. Like with Nolen it seems there are general questions about his maturity and his effort. That is the kind of thing I think we can afford to overlook and trust that our culture and our locker room are strong enough to help him grow.

 

The next level would be James Pearce where it's apparently like Jermaine Burton, like there are times where he just doesn't show up at practice and no one has any clue where he is... That's scary enough that I probably wouldn't touch him in the 1st, but you'd do your due diligence and gauge the severity.

 

And then there's Mike Green who has had two sexual assault allegations and there are rumors of a pattern of behavior that is even worse than what's been reported, so to me he's not even a conversation worth having.

[nosejob]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

We need a 1 tech not only to compliment Oliver but to help our LBs/run defense and in tow help our DE get to QBs if he's tying up multiple blockers. Which in turn helps the pass defense etc. Truth is a true NT/1 tech has been sorely needed since we traded away Dareus. 

 

That said I didn't vote for Nolen as to me he isn't the type of DT we need. Truth be told athletic run stuffing DT aren't easiest things to find but I see one that should be available when we pick and why been harping on Tyleik Williams all off season. 

 Read NFL and Bleacher report profiles  and for me....pass, at least with the first pick. T Rex arms, iffy against double teams, we already have DQ.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To me it feels like we're just spinning wheels instead of improving.

 

We already did this with drafting Kincaid while we have Knox under a high-paying contract. And while I like Dalton, I can't say the move has paid off or made a marked improvement to the team.

 

Drafting an Ed clone who might be marginally better doesnt do much to move the needle for the team.

 

Put someone better NEXT to Ed since we all know that improving one spot on either of the Lines directly helps the guys next to him. JMO

 

The issue with drafting Kincaid wasn't that it didn't fill a strict need, it's that the player turned out not to be as good as they thought. That's what the final evaluation always comes down to. If Kincaid had turned into our version of Kelce no one would care that we had drafted him while paying Knox.

 

To me drafting just a solid starter in the 1st round would be spinning our wheels. And that's kind of how I see Amos, of course I could be wrong and he develops into an elite CB. More than anything this roster needs high end talent that can make difference making plays that go above and beyond the scheme. If you think Nolen can be the next Chris Jones, you don't think twice about drafting him even with Oliver on a highly paid contract. Howie Roseman drafted Hurts while paying Wentz. He drafted Jalen Carter soon after drafting Jordan Davis and Milton Williams. Just take the best player and if your evaluation is right it will be a winning move.

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, DJB said:

Get after the QB with a DT and we could bring back Leodis Mckelvin to play corner. 
 

If you can’t pressure the QB it doesn’t matter if we have Champ Bailey back there . It won’t matter 

 

We need a dominant DT it’s far more important 

If it came down to these two players than I think Beane would draft Nolan.  He's given a lot of lip service to it "starts up front."  I wouldn't rule out two DT's (3 tech and 1 tech) with two of our three 1st and 2nd round picks.

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I voted Amos for the same reason but also I disagree with that logic. This is where Beane has messed up before. Instead of taking the better player he takes the cleaner fit who fills a need. I don't want him to pass on Nolen because Oliver is already on the roster or because of minor character concerns. We desperately need high end talent. Nolen has a lot more upside than Amos IMO. Take the character risk and worry about his fit on the roster later.

 

And of course in this scenario Philly has Nolen fall into their laps. Beane taking a solid level CB while Howie Roseman takes the best talent is such a realistic outcome and I hate it.

 

I am confused. So you voted for Amos from the very same reasons you don't want Beane to do it?

 

I wanted Nolen so I voted for Nolen and want Beane to do the same.

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

So you voted for Amos from the very same reasons you don't want Beane to do it?

 

Yeah because I do mock drafts based on what I expect, not what I want. Given the option between Amos and Nolen I would expect Beane to select Amos.

[DJB]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

If it came down to these two players than I think Beane would draft Nolan.  He's given a lot of lip service to it "starts up front."  I wouldn't rule out two DT's (3 tech and 1 tech) with two of our three 1st and 2nd round picks.

I hope you are correct but with CB a glaring need and with the depth at DT and the lack of depth at corner, I suspect we pass on the better talent and go DB round 1 with DT taken in round 2

 

I hope I’m wrong though as passing on elite talent is misguided .

 

This team outside of Josh lacks elite talent . Get the best player period

Edited 16 hours ago by DJB

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because I think Ed is really good and while I like Nolen giving up on proven very good for possibly really good doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I would just keep both of them on the roster honestly. I don't worry too much about how it all fits together. Maybe if nothing else we end up with a really impactful 3rd down pass rush which would fix a big problem from last year. And since this coaching staff loves to rotate the DL no amount of investment is going to be too much.

[Doc Brown]

45 minutes ago, DJB said:

I hope you are correct but with CB a glaring need and with the depth at DT and the lack of depth at corner, I suspect we pass on the better talent and go DB round 1 with DT taken in round 2

 

I hope I’m wrong though as passing on elite talent is misguided .

 

This team outside of Josh lacks elite talent . Get the best player period

Unless a guy slips you're unlikely to find elite talent at pick #30 at a premium position.  I suspect whoever we take will have a good but not great career.  I think we took Rousseau at this same spot.

[Kirby Jackson]

45 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would just keep both of them on the roster honestly. I don't worry too much about how it all fits together. Maybe if nothing else we end up with a really impactful 3rd down pass rush which would fix a big problem from last year. And since this coaching staff loves to rotate the DL no amount of investment is going to be too much.

We talk about it a lot but the Bills lack high end talent. Oliver COULD be a top 10 DT and has played to that level at times. I see no value in dumping him to save some $ in hopes that Nolen becomes that. I think that the Bills rotate so much that it doesn’t matter that there’s overlap. I love your idea of an elite 3rd down interior pass rush. It feels a little bit like that old Giants NASCAR package that gave the Patriots such a hard time.

Edited 15 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[Virgil]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would just keep both of them on the roster honestly. I don't worry too much about how it all fits together. Maybe if nothing else we end up with a really impactful 3rd down pass rush which would fix a big problem from last year. And since this coaching staff loves to rotate the DL no amount of investment is going to be too much.

Is it really that crazy to draft another pash rushing DE?   Not only would they rotate with Oliver, they could both be out there in obviously passing situations, or when he have a decent lead.  
 

If there’s a BPA that is similar to Oliver in the 1st, and they like the depth to get a DB and run stuffing DT later, I have no issue with it. 

[nosejob]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because I think Ed is really good and while I like Nolen giving up on proven very good for possibly really good doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

We need to be innovative, ahead of the curve. We need a DT with production ( sacks, TFLs  etc.) We need guys that can penetrate from any position on the line.

15-20 lbs be damned.

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Is it really that crazy to draft another pash rushing DE?   Not only would they rotate with Oliver, they could both be out there in obviously passing situations, or when he have a decent lead.  
 

If there’s a BPA that is similar to Oliver in the 1st, and they like the depth to get a DB and run stuffing DT later, I have no issue with it. 

That's it in a nutshell.

[Kirby Jackson]

It sounds like we are mostly on the same page. Do not overthink it with fit/need. You have multiple needs. Talent should be the driving factor and everything else comes after that. Talent at a position that has some need regardless of “fit” is the answer.

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Is it really that crazy to draft another pash rushing DE?   Not only would they rotate with Oliver, they could both be out there in obviously passing situations, or when he have a decent lead.  
 

If there’s a BPA that is similar to Oliver in the 1st, and they like the depth to get a DB and run stuffing DT later, I have no issue with it. 

 

The only positions that would be crazy to draft in round 1 are QB, RB, and OL. Anything else should be on the table.