Owners approve rules adjustments for Replay, OT, and Kickoff

[DapperCam]

40 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

they should just put the ball at the opponent’s 10 yard line at this point. You know they want to.

Every drive is college football OT rules.

[fergie's ire]

I think it's stupid that the replay official can't throw a flag.  I thought the big push for the change came from facemask calls that weren't made.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

So we'll have questionable calls reversed by questionable decisions, resulting in still questionable outcomes. 

More like questionable no calls, because if no flag is thrown there is no video review

[MJS]

1 hour ago, BillsSbSoon said:

35 yard line is ridiculous. It felt like like last year everybody was hitting the 50 yard line after one play and now it’ll be even worse

They want to increase returns. Teams were still just kicking it through the end zone last year. Now, they will have to think about it more.

[Cash]

45 minutes ago, Logic said:

The NFL seems absolutely obsessed with fixing what ain't broken.

Best sport in the world, and they're constantly tinkering with it to try to increase scoring and "protect player safety" (yeah right).

In response to these rule changes, I mainly just have more questions about the overtime amendment. So...each team gets a chance to possess the ball -- straightforward enough. If both teams score touchdowns, then what? Are teams forced to go for two point tries from there on out? Are they allowed to just keep kicking extra points?

The replay assist and kickoff rule tweaks are straightforward enough, but the overtime change begs more questions.

 

I've gone back and forth and all over the place on OT rules over the years.  For a long time, I was a staunch "sudden death is the way" guy.  I eventually relented, when I saw too many OTs that consisted of one mediocre drive resulting in a 40-50 yard FG.  That's boring.  So I was fully on board when the rules were changed to roughly, "sudden death unless the first score is a FG".  I'm still not fully opposed to that, but I will concede that it's pretty lame these days when a shootout ends with just one OT possession.  

 

As is tradition, the Bills got screwed by fair application of an existing rule (13 seconds game), so the NFL decided to change it.  (Side note: the back half of said tradition is that we will eventually be screwed by the rule change.  It hasn't happened yet, but look forward to a big game where we score a TD on the first possession of OT and go on to lose.)  I actually liked the Bills' proposal of a 15-minute OT, with sudden death afterwards if still tied.  Unfortunately, the NFL owners did not like that, so we got the current setup.  I believe this change is just to take the existing playoff OT rule (post 13 seconds) and apply it to the regular season as well.

 

IMO, the OT problems stem from it being too easy to score a TD.  I think football works best when it's hard but not ludicrous to score a TD, which isn't exactly where we're at these days.  And even though the pendulum swung a bit towards the defense last year, it's hard to imagine it'll keep going that way very long.  In any case, here's what I'd like to see for OT rules:

 

Regular season: No overtime, sucker!  We play regulation and if it's tied, you each get a tie.  Don't like it?  Try to win in regulation.  (Note: this is BY FAR the best option from a player safety perspective.)

 

Playoffs:  Play a 15 minute OT, then go to sudden death if needed.

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

I've gone back and forth and all over the place on OT rules over the years.  For a long time, I was a staunch "sudden death is the way" guy.  I eventually relented, when I saw too many OTs that consisted of one mediocre drive resulting in a 40-50 yard FG.  That's boring.  So I was fully on board when the rules were changed to roughly, "sudden death unless the first score is a FG".  I'm still not fully opposed to that, but I will concede that it's pretty lame these days when a shootout ends with just one OT possession.  

 

As is tradition, the Bills got screwed by fair application of an existing rule (13 seconds game), so the NFL decided to change it.  (Side note: the back half of said tradition is that we will eventually be screwed by the rule change.  It hasn't happened yet, but look forward to a big game where we score a TD on the first possession of OT and go on to lose.)  I actually liked the Bills' proposal of a 15-minute OT, with sudden death afterwards if still tied.  Unfortunately, the NFL owners did not like that, so we got the current setup.  I believe this change is just to take the existing playoff OT rule (post 13 seconds) and apply it to the regular season as well.

 

IMO, the OT problems stem from it being too easy to score a TD.  I think football works best when it's hard but not ludicrous to score a TD, which isn't exactly where we're at these days.  And even though the pendulum swung a bit towards the defense last year, it's hard to imagine it'll keep going that way very long.  In any case, here's what I'd like to see for OT rules:

 

Regular season: No overtime, sucker!  We play regulation and if it's tied, you each get a tie.  Don't like it?  Try to win in regulation.  (Note: this is BY FAR the best option from a player safety perspective.)

 

Playoffs:  Play a 15 minute OT, then go to sudden death if needed.

No arguments here.

For whatever reason, Americans are allergic to ties in sports.

Happens all the time in soccer, and it hasn't stopped that from being the most popular sport in the world by a wide margin. 

The truth is this: The NFL doesn't care one lick about player safety. See: Thursday Night football, playing on short weeks, extra regular season game, etc.

Unfortunately, the NFL cares more about profits than about the quality of the product, integrity of the game, or safety of the players. A damn shame.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

so when will they go all flag football...I mean, these rules. 

 

well, I can at least say I was around when football was football. nowadays, who the hell knows what to call it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

I think the idea is you make it painful to decide to take the touchback. Because the difference in the touchback and the penalty are now only 5 yards you will probably see kickers try and coffin corner the kickoffs and work on that craft.  I believe the touchbacks will go way down as a result of this which is what they want.  You will have to put more resources into kick and kick return.

I almost made the exact point....I noticed this too.  I predict teams will get good at defending the kick return....and knock down the 30 to the an average of like the 25.   Last year there was not much reason do put the effort in.

 

I feel like low trajectory knuckler is probably the best way at this point.  Obviously going to be some more variance - some will go out of bounds or land short.  But kicking out of the end zone seems to provide 0 value.  

• harder to set up underneath for returners.
• if it lands in the landing zone it's a live ball.
• if it goes out of bounds - its a 5 yard net loss vs. an in air touchback.
• if it goes out of the end zone or is downed after hitting landing zone - its the 20.  

[BarleyNY]

25 minutes ago, Logic said:

No arguments here.

For whatever reason, Americans are allergic to ties in sports.

Happens all the time in soccer, and it hasn't stopped that from being the most popular sport in the world by a wide margin. 

The truth is this: The NFL doesn't care one lick about player safety. See: Thursday Night football, playing on short weeks, extra regular season game, etc.

Unfortunately, the NFL cares more about profits than about the quality of the product, integrity of the game, or safety of the players. A damn shame.

Elimination of regular season OT seems a logical concession to get an 18th regular season game. Not sure that it’ll be put on the table, but it would make sense to lighten the playing load of players that little bit. 

[Matt_In_NH]

 

40 minutes ago, Logic said:

The truth is this: The NFL doesn't care one lick about player safety. See: Thursday Night football, playing on short weeks, extra regular season game, etc.

Is there data to support this? I mean I think the product is sometimes bad and I hear complaints but is there data that there are more injuries?   They absolutely changed the kick offs because data showed concussions were at a much higher rate than other plays.  Not saying the NFL "cares" but they did change the kickoff based on player safety.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44490561/sources-nfl-owners-ok-kickoff-ot-replay-rule-changes

 

"Owners also approved proposals to expand the league's replay-assist system, sources told Schefter. The on-site replay official will be permitted to reverse flags that are thrown for hits to defenseless players, along with fouls for face mask, horse collar, tripping and running into/roughing the kicker. The replay official will not be permitted to call a penalty for a play in which no flag was thrown, however."

 

This is going to be huge IMO.

 

For the replay-assist does roughing the passer fall under the hits to defenseless players category? 

 

Overall I could see this detracting from the viewing experience. Refs will be conditioned to throw a flag on anything that remotely looks like one of these penalties and just have it go to review. It's better for the ref to have it go to review and get it right than to risk not throwing a flag and getting it wrong. 

 

Similar to how they've been conditioned to never blow a play dead if there's any chance there was a fumble.  

[benderbender]

Moving the kickoff is proof that the dynamic kickoff was not proposed to reduce injury. More kicks will be returned, and by default, injuries will increase. At one point is the injury rate acceptable? And does it have to intersect with a return rate?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I’d love to see a rule change back to the way it was for 70 years. I know it will never happen but I don’t want gimmicks. I want the old kick off back

[Logic]

20 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

Is there data to support this? I mean I think the product is sometimes bad and I hear complaints but is there data that there are more injuries?   They absolutely changed the kick offs because data showed concussions were at a much higher rate than other plays.  Not saying the NFL "cares" but they did change the kickoff based on player safety.

The NFL is pretty cagey with what data they do and don't let get out into the world regarding player safety. So no, I don't have data to support my statement.

My position is that they do surface level things like change the kickoff, begrudgingly allow guardian helmets to be worn during games, and add more stringent concussion protocols to give LIP SERVICE to the idea of player safety, when in reality, many of their other actions show that it's not really a priority for them.

Put differently, I think they're willing to make player safety changes SO LONG AS it doesn't affect their bottom line. None of the above three changes I just mentioned take money out of the owners' pockets. Meanwhile, they're willing to do things that ADD to their bottom line even IF they fly in the face of player safety.

I think the amount of short weeks they make players play on, Thursday night games (which are universally despised by players), adding extra regular season games, etc, are all inherently antithetical to the idea of protecting player safety. But they all increase revenue, so the league pushes them through.

If they can appease the public with safety measures that don't cost them profit, they will. That way, when they do things that are not conducive to player safety, they can point to the things they DO do and say "No. See? Look! We're doing things!".

Oh, and then there's the issue of turf being less safe to play on than natural grass, for which there DOES seem to be plenty of data. And yet...

[JMM]

The new kickoff rule means two important things:

1. Can Bass be able to kickoff to a corner and to the 5 yard line? He was excellent at this at one point when it still mattered. 

2. The importance again of kick returner. Hopefully we are good with Codrington, and this is definitely why they signed Shenault, which they basically stated.

[damj]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44490561/sources-nfl-owners-ok-kickoff-ot-replay-rule-changes

 

"Owners also approved proposals to expand the league's replay-assist system, sources told Schefter. The on-site replay official will be permitted to reverse flags that are thrown for hits to defenseless players, along with fouls for face mask, horse collar, tripping and running into/roughing the kicker. The replay official will not be permitted to call a penalty for a play in which no flag was thrown, however."

 

This is going to be huge IMO.

Yeah right... Like I'm going to believe anything you say today Virgil... 

 

... If that really is your name. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, mike22nc said:

Am I the only one that has no interest in more kickoff returns?

The league has in effect de-funded actual kickoffs…, lol

 

 

That they don’t kickoff from the ten or fifteen yard line to create more returns (which is their stated desire) is beyond comprehension…,  it is a confederacy of dunces on the rules committee…, 

[T master]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44490561/sources-nfl-owners-ok-kickoff-ot-replay-rule-changes

 

"Owners also approved proposals to expand the league's replay-assist system, sources told Schefter. The on-site replay official will be permitted to reverse flags that are thrown for hits to defenseless players, along with fouls for face mask, horse collar, tripping and running into/roughing the kicker. The replay official will not be permitted to call a penalty for a play in which no flag was thrown, however."

 

This is going to be huge IMO.

 

If the replay official sees a blatant foul like a face mask that the on the field official misses and tells them that they missed the call then why have them review it at all ?

 

If you're going to do it right do it right all the way or just leave it alone !! A missed call like that could change the out come of a game, Oh wait that's why they like it when the Bills are in play off games so they can change the rules after the fact !!

 

Never mind what was I thinking ????

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Cash said:

 

That's at least supposed to be the point - they want teams to choose to kick the ball short of the endzone so that we fans get to see actual kick returns.  TBD if it'll happen or not.  I suspect most coaches will do the CYA move and kick into the endzone anyway.

They could've moved the kickoff back five more yards too and you'd pry get a massive return rate.  

Edited yesterday at 06:47 PM by Doc Brown

[RobbRiddick]

The new replay assistant: