Bills halt contract negotiations with Cook

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I suspect that they are closer to 5mil, apart, even with incentives to make more, I again suspect that Cooks team counter offered 15mill, and that is why Beane shut down negotiations, opinion/ speculation, call it what you want, but I’ll bet I’m not far off, 

 

Hopefully we can extend him, but I’m not going to hold my breath on it, 

 

I could see the opening numbers being $10M from Beane and $15M from Cook.

Where it went from there (if anywhere) I don't know.

 

One aspect of all this that hasn't been addressed much is the contract length and guaranteed money.

3 year or 4 years may have a lot to do with the dollars as does guarantees.

[MasterStrategist]

20 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You need to stop referring to Cook as elite.  He can’t even beat out a journeyman RB to get on the field on third downs.  
 

Elite RBs aren’t liabilities on 3rd down and cede the field to journeyman.  

I like your posts @Alphadawg7. but you're wrong occasionally...this is one of those.

 

Love to have Joe Brady hold a press conference and set the fans straight.

 

People also said Cook couldnt be a "good" two down back either, until he was given more looks/ie: is it a coincidence Joe Brady helped Cook flourish?

 

My point is, Cook can be a 3 down player, Bills want to keep a rotation and it's not much different than McD and the Dline.  Same concept.

 

Watch Cook leave and get more opportunities on 3rd down, and thrive.  It's about opportuinies/coaching philosophy.

 

I'd also say Cook has elite traits, he may not be a top 5 overall back in a traditional sense.  Dude is a homerun threat and playmaker, I think he's proven he's elite in regards to the tune of 18 TDs.  

 

If we rather put Ty Johnson in to run pass routes on 3rd down, perfect.  He's very good at that.  But let's not act like Ty/journeyman is in there because Cook can't pass pro OR any other reason.  It's about keeping Cook fresh, and all teams do it.

[MasterStrategist]

20 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

James Cook is definitely elite. He was our 2nd best player on offense. He’s not Saquon or Henry but he took a huge burden off Josh’s shoulders this year and in my opinion is only going to get better. 

100% agree.  Some posters can't see it and the guy you're going back and forth with, also said Ray Davis would be getting 50% of carries LY.

 

Some ppl let go, and some have issues realizing their stance is allowed to change.

 

18 TDs isn't elite in the NFL...news to me

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I like your posts @Alphadawg7. but you're wrong occasionally...this is one of those.

 

Love to have Joe Brady hold a press conference and set the fans straight.

 

People also said Cook couldnt be a "good" two down back either, until he was given more looks/ie: is it a coincidence Joe Brady helped Cook flourish?

 

My point is, Cook can be a 3 down player, Bills want to keep a rotation and it's not much different than McD and the Dline.  Same concept.

 

Watch Cook leave and get more opportunities on 3rd down, and thrive.  It's about opportuinies/coaching philosophy.

 

I'd also say Cook has elite traits, he may not be a top 5 overall back in a traditional sense.  Dude is a homerun threat and playmaker, I think he's proven he's elite in regards to the tune of 18 TDs.  

 

If we rather put Ty Johnson in to run pass routes on 3rd down, perfect.  He's very good at that.  But let's not act like Ty/journeyman is in there because Cook can't pass pro OR any other reason.  It's about keeping Cook fresh, and all teams do it.

 

Look at the balls on you having the audacity to disagree with something I said!  Wow dude...wow.  

 

Hahaha j/k...all good man, just teasing and I always appreciate your opinion and other views, so thanks for sharing.

 

To be clear...I like Cook and prefer Cook remain a Bill...just not at what he is asking.  I personally just don't think he is worth over paying for because he hasn't been, and I don't think he should be, a bell cow elite RB like the guys he wants to be paid like or make more money than.  IMHO...he isn't great at pass pro, is just an ok receiver (struggles when he has to track the ball), and is guy who will be at his best as part of a duo more than a bell cow RB.  And as much as I like Ty, he is a journeyman RB and yet it was Ty who was on the field for the most important Bills drive in 2 decades against KC.  

 

I am all for keeping Cook, but I don't personally think he is elite because he got a bunch of short yardage TD's.  IMHO, that was thanks to the combo of teams accounting for Josh Allen as a runner/passer in short situations and an excellent OL.  If Ray Davis got all the short and goal carries, I think he would have a bunch of TD's too.  I don't think it makes Cook "special" and he wants to be paid as if he is "special".  

 

But just because I don't think he is "elite" doesn't mean I don't like him, I mean I do think he has been a good player here.  I am however skeptical he replicates the same kind of success without Allen and this OL.  

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I like your posts @Alphadawg7. but you're wrong occasionally...this is one of those.

 

Love to have Joe Brady hold a press conference and set the fans straight.

 

People also said Cook couldnt be a "good" two down back either, until he was given more looks/ie: is it a coincidence Joe Brady helped Cook flourish?

 

My point is, Cook can be a 3 down player, Bills want to keep a rotation and it's not much different than McD and the Dline.  Same concept.

 

Watch Cook leave and get more opportunities on 3rd down, and thrive.  It's about opportuinies/coaching philosophy.

 

I'd also say Cook has elite traits, he may not be a top 5 overall back in a traditional sense.  Dude is a homerun threat and playmaker, I think he's proven he's elite in regards to the tune of 18 TDs.  

 

If we rather put Ty Johnson in to run pass routes on 3rd down, perfect.  He's very good at that.  But let's not act like Ty/journeyman is in there because Cook can't pass pro OR any other reason.  It's about keeping Cook fresh, and all teams do it.

 

Ty is our best pass protector. That is the main reason he is out there in 3rd down. Cook isn't a great pass blocker but he isn't a total liability either. 

 

What Cook has that is elite is his vision. and I mean ELITE vision. He sees creases 80% of NFL backs don't see. I am not here pounding the table for the Bills to extend James Cook. He is a running back. I don't love paying running backs. But if we end up starting Ray Davis next year or in 2026 make no mistake that is a downgrade at the position and it will be a noticeable one.

Edited 19 hours ago by GunnerBill

[Matt_In_NH]

49 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

seem like that was what they offered him just before his social announcement lol

 

 

The bills are buying his house?

[QCity]

21 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

One aspect of all this that hasn't been addressed much is the contract length and guaranteed money.

3 year or 4 years may have a lot to do with the dollars as does guarantees.

 

I mentioned in the other thread that AAV has almost nothing to do with this particular negotiation. This is all about term, aka GTD money. The belief that Beane and Cooks' agent are on the phone having a back-and-forth about AAV is naïve.

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ty is our best pass protector. That is the main reason he is out there in 3rd down. Cook isn't a great pass blocker but he isn't a total liability either. 

 

What Cook has that is elite is his vision. and I mean ELITE vision. He sees creases 80% of NFL backs don't see. I am not here pounding the table for the Bills to extend James Cook. He is a running back. I don't love paying running backs. But if we end up starting Ray Davis next year or in 2026 make no mistake that is a downgrade at the position and it will be a noticeable one.

I'm not about to look up the stats but Ty wasn't in there for pass pro only.  It wasn't that simple.

 

He was out in routes quite often.  When I have time, I'll go find the prior stats/or start tracking by watching his 3rd downs.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

I mentioned in the other thread that AAV has almost nothing to do with this particular negotiation. This is all about term, aka GTD money. The belief that Beane and Cooks' agent are on the phone having a back-and-forth about AAV is naïve.

 

Yes.  But $15M AAV could be a fixation with some players, but the end result of the contract could be huge.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm not about to look up the stats but Ty wasn't in there for pass pro only.  It wasn't that simple.

 

He was out in routes quite often.  When I have time, I'll go find the prior stats/or start tracking by watching his 3rd downs.

 

He did run some 3rd down routes. That is not what I am saying. But the reason he "went in" in 3rd down packages was because of his pass pro ability. They didn't then always ask him to just protect. Sometimes he protected. Sometimes he chipped and slipped and sometimes he ran a route.

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Look at the balls on you having the audacity to disagree with something I said!  Wow dude...wow.  

 

Hahaha j/k...all good man, just teasing and I always appreciate your opinion and other views, so thanks for sharing.

 

To be clear...I like Cook and prefer Cook remain a Bill...just not at what he is asking.  I personally just don't think he is worth over paying for because he hasn't been, and I don't think he should be, a bell cow elite RB like the guys he wants to be paid like or make more money than.  IMHO...he isn't great at pass pro, is just an ok receiver (struggles when he has to track the ball), and is guy who will be at his best as part of a duo more than a bell cow RB.  And as much as I like Ty, he is a journeyman RB and yet it was Ty who was on the field for the most important Bills drive in 2 decades against KC.  

 

I am all for keeping Cook, but I don't personally think he is elite because he got a bunch of short yardage TD's.  IMHO, that was thanks to the combo of teams accounting for Josh Allen as a runner/passer in short situations and an excellent OL.  If Ray Davis got all the short and goal carries, I think he would have a bunch of TD's too.  I don't think it makes Cook "special" and he wants to be paid as if he is "special".  

 

But just because I don't think he is "elite" doesn't mean I don't like him, I mean I do think he has been a good player here.  I am however skeptical he replicates the same kind of success without Allen and this OL.  

Haha all good, I get it.

 

I would say Cook is elite with vision/acceleration, and he's worked very hard to improve his contact agility (yards after contact).  That last comment is a big reason his production, in terms of TDs, shot up.

 

Just like your prior "season predictions", which was amazing with Shakir.  I think Cook can get to 14+ TDs (running+receiving) in 2025 again.  His trajectory is upward.

 

We are hoping for the same thing, keeping Cook.  Hopefully Beane finds a way.

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

real question is who do we take at 12?

 

Barron?

Grant?

Golden? 

I say trade back to around 20, recoup the 2nd round pick lost in the trade with Dallas, and go BPA…chances are, it is still one of the guys you mentioned…👍

[Ray Stonada]

I would pay Cook 15 mill. Cap just went way up.

[SoCal Deek]

Anyone know what the 15th and 17th ranked running backs make? As I said yesterday, Cook was 16th. Right behind Joe Mixon and just above Chase Brown. 

Edited 16 hours ago by SoCal Deek

[Buffalo Junction]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Haha all good, I get it.

 

I would say Cook is elite with vision/acceleration, and he's worked very hard to improve his contact agility (yards after contact).  That last comment is a big reason his production, in terms of TDs, shot up.

 

Just like your prior "season predictions", which was amazing with Shakir.  I think Cook can get to 14+ TDs (running+receiving) in 2025 again.  His trajectory is upward.

 

We are hoping for the same thing, keeping Cook.  Hopefully Beane finds a way.

You have to be careful about the upward trajectory projection with guys who are splitting snaps. The NFL is littered with players that have out lying season statistics, particularly RBs and TDs. Probably the best recent example is Aaron Jones who parlayed a superbly productive season into a $12mil/yr contract with GB and never duplicated the scoring production. That said, I’d be happy if Beane got Cook signed for that same contract, but I’m not so sure it’d be the best idea if it was inflated to $15mil/yr. 
 

Jones career rushing stats.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Haha all good, I get it.

 

I would say Cook is elite with vision/acceleration, and he's worked very hard to improve his contact agility (yards after contact).  That last comment is a big reason his production, in terms of TDs, shot up.

 

Just like your prior "season predictions", which was amazing with Shakir.  I think Cook can get to 14+ TDs (running+receiving) in 2025 again.  His trajectory is upward.

 

We are hoping for the same thing, keeping Cook.  Hopefully Beane finds a way.

in a skill set discussion only - the team is better with cook than most reasonable replacement options 

 

that said I have a very hard time with digesting a player we spend 15m (plus or minus a bit) being game planned onto the sideline for our hurry up offense - specifically game winning drive attempts. 
 

I can begin to reconcile our day 2 pick being on the sideline but really struggle with the idea of our 15m back being on the sideline in 2 minute drills in January. Either the back, the coach or the front office would need change in my opinion.

[JP51]

15 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Maybe less complicated... Cook and a 4 or 5 for their 2. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I think Aaron Jones is the best comp for Cook.  Not really an every down workhorse but still very valuable.  That $10-12m per year seems to be the sweet spot for a Jones/Cook type back.  I’m sure Beane could put some incentives in there so the deal can be announced as $15m per year but it’s really $10-12m per year, so I’d guess Cook ain’t budging and Beane is waiting for him to come to his senses.  

Edited 5 hours ago by BuffaloRebound

[LarryMadman]

11 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

I would pay Cook 15 mill. Cap just went way up.

Nope, need to maintain some cap structure. Can't have a 2 down, 15th ish best RB setting the market that high and have the Bills saddled with that bad contract going forward. Going into cap hell defeats the purpose of being responsible to have other great players on the team.

[vtnatefootball11]

15 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

100% agree.  Some posters can't see it and the guy you're going back and forth with, also said Ray Davis would be getting 50% of carries LY.

 

Some ppl let go, and some have issues realizing their stance is allowed to change.

 

18 TDs isn't elite in the NFL...news to me

 

Cook is very good but safely not elite. Elite players don't come off on the field on third down, period. Mostert had over 20 touchdowns but that doesn't make him elite. TDs are often very situational. If we give Davis/Johnson got more goal line carries Cook would have had closer to 10 tds last year.  Never pay a guy coming off an obvious outsized production year. Look what we did with Knox, absolutely terrible contract, worst of Beane's tenure (Von was not a good contract, very risky but absent the injury it prob would have been fine). Cook is good and has improved, and that's what difficult is some of the crazy production last year was him truly improving and ascending, but not all of it. I would very much like to keep him but not at anything more than $12m per (unless it's very short term).  You have to remember that Cook benefits greatly from Allen and our Oline. Arron Jones is a great comp. He has similar skills/style to Cook, and look he had one year at 16tds and has never come close to that TD production since. Beane is being smart by holding strong here, Cook is not Saquon Barkley. 

Edited 4 hours ago by vtnatefootball11