Being a top 3 team in scoring. Does it matter how we do it?

[BillsShredder83]

On 3/28/2025 at 8:05 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

So last year scoring, the Lions, Bill and Ravens were top 3. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-top-scoring-teams-2024

 

Did it feel hard to score for us last year to you guys? We basically did it without a field stretcher. How will it feel to you all if we did it again, TOP 3. Without a true viable field stretcher on the team? How do we continue moving forward with THIS team on offense with the WR/HB/TE combination we have on the team now, or do we still need a EDGE WR to stretch this field this year?

 

Just a question to you folks. This may of been covered in other topics... just wanted to read more direct answers to this topic.

 

Thanks. 

Regular season matters very little.  If we crush it, great, do it in the playoffs.... if the offense has a chance to win it, and theyre struggling to consistently move the chains in the playoffs, do I care they put up 30ppg?  No.  Thats exactly what happened vs Chiefs this year.

 

We def did not make moving the chains look easy.  Too many 3rd and long.  Too many times where extending a drive 1 series wouldve put up at least 3, changed field position, or given our defense a little more time to catch their breath.  It did look hard at times, and its because we arent a fully balanced team.

 

Crowd the line, crowd the middle, give minimal attention outside the hashes because nobody will make you pay there.  Were so close.  Really wish we'd addressed WR1 last draft.  Hoping Keon comes around, but his ceiling feels like a real nice WR2.  I just want one top 15 outside WR's.  Bet Josh does too

[Chandler#81]

On 3/30/2025 at 8:35 PM, Maine-iac said:

Last years success, of all the years you could pick, had the least amount to do with Josh being Superman.  It might be the one year where he actually sat back and watched the running game take over.  There were games where his only job was to make the right read and get the ball out on time instead of forcing it down field to Gabe or Diggs.  He could make easier throws to guys who make a higher percentage of catches and are better at YAC.  If anything last years success is more likely to be reproduced and all Josh has to do is continue to make good decisions.  Hell the current offense would love nothing more than for teams to sit back in cover 2 that's what it's designed to beat.   KC has a great DC they are always going to play teams tough. We called a bad protection and Kincaid dropped one.   That's all it takes in the playoffs.  Just ask Lamar and Andrews.

How do you type? Speak to type? Obviously you can’t see. Josh Allen won the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER in the NFL!  Only “Supermen” win 

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

 

[Maine-iac]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

How do you type? Speak to type? Obviously you can’t see. Josh Allen won the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER in the NFL!  Only “Supermen” win 

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

 

Please, in reference to what I was saying, tell me what the hell your point is?  Are you saying Josh can't replicate last season?  Did you just jump in with a hot take without reading for context?  I clearly never said Josh can't be Superman.  I simply said if ever there was a season he had to do it less it was last year and there's no reason he can't play at last years level again.  I guess you also disagree with that?

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Please, in reference to what I was saying, tell me what the hell your point is?  Are you saying Josh can't replicate last season?  Did you just jump in with a hot take without reading for context?  I clearly never said Josh can't be Superman.  I simply said if ever there was a season he had to do it less it was last year and there's no reason he can't play at last years level again.  I guess you also disagree with that?

Josh had his worst receiving core since 2018 last year. Not sure him having to be Superman less than last year is the correct take.

 

Did he play somewhat smarter and safer? yes.

 

Did he benefit from having a good OL and a good running game? yes.

 

Were nearly all of our explosive plays off-script crazy scrambles that only he made with regularity last year? also yes.

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Please, in reference to what I was saying, tell me what the hell your point is?  Are you saying Josh can't replicate last season?  Did you just jump in with a hot take without reading for context?  I clearly never said Josh can't be Superman.  I simply said if ever there was a season he had to do it less it was last year and there's no reason he can't play at last years level again.  I guess you also disagree with that?

🤦‍♂️ Now you’re just being ridiculous. I’ll try this again, but just once more. From Opening week vs the Cardinals to vs the Jets to vs the Chiefs to vs the 49ers to @ Detroit to the Broncos, Ravens & Chiefs in the playoffs, the Bills wouldn’t have won WITHOUT  Allen being Superman and thusly the Most Valuable Player.

Son, you have no context.

[TwoFlocksofFury]

On 3/28/2025 at 8:53 PM, Success said:

Allen can score w/ anyone.  We DO NOT need to worry much about offense. I'd be happy w/ a receiver in the early rounds, but it's not dire.

 

Defense, defense, defense.  We lose in the playoffs because or our DEFENSE.  It drives me bananas.

 

We need to focus there - both personnel, and scheme. 

 

Who the F would 'thumbs down' this?

[Maine-iac]

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

🤦‍♂️ Now you’re just being ridiculous. I’ll try this again, but just once more. From Opening week vs the Cardinals to vs the Jets to vs the Chiefs to vs the 49ers to @ Detroit to the Broncos, Ravens & Chiefs in the playoffs, the Bills wouldn’t have won WITHOUT  Allen being Superman and thusly the Most Valuable Player.

Son, you have no context.

Still missing the point but I'll leave it at that.

 

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Josh had his worst receiving core since 2018 last year. Not sure him having to be Superman less than last year is the correct take.

 

Did he play somewhat smarter and safer? yes.

 

Did he benefit from having a good OL and a good running game? yes.

 

Were nearly all of our explosive plays off-script crazy scrambles that only he made with regularity last year? also yes.

AT least you get what I'm saying.  Even if you don't agree which is fine.  Different opinions make good conversation.  All of the things you list.  Playing smarter, better O-line, less throwing, more running all just speak to what I've been saying.  I'll repeat I'm not saying Josh can't be superman or that we don't need him to do it to win in certain games.  I'm saying he did it less.  Less overall running for Josh, getting the ball out quicker, staying on schedule.  It's going to be a necessity to keep Josh playing into his 30's without getting injured.  Having a running game that can take over for large parts of games means less wear and tear and means not every splash play has to be a passing play.  I think it makes it more likely he can repeat what he did last year rather than less likely, which was my original take on someones comment.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 3/31/2025 at 7:47 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Regular season matters very little.  If we crush it, great, do it in the playoffs.... if the offense has a chance to win it, and theyre struggling to consistently move the chains in the playoffs, do I care they put up 30ppg?  No.  Thats exactly what happened vs Chiefs this year.

 

We def did not make moving the chains look easy.  Too many 3rd and long.  Too many times where extending a drive 1 series wouldve put up at least 3, changed field position, or given our defense a little more time to catch their breath.  It did look hard at times, and its because we arent a fully balanced team.

 

Crowd the line, crowd the middle, give minimal attention outside the hashes because nobody will make you pay there.  Were so close.  Really wish we'd addressed WR1 last draft.  Hoping Keon comes around, but his ceiling feels like a real nice WR2.  I just want one top 15 outside WR's.  Bet Josh does too

 

I do think that they needed more from playmakers to get further.  The goal of having one of these guys like a chase, or a kelce - in the biggest games of the year they tend to get it done.  I know kelce didn't this past year, but I'd still say during their run he's one of the biggest reasons they are as successful as they have been.  

 

When you gotta have it - it's nice to have a guy like that.  

 

Going into this season?

• There's hope Keon can be that guy, and I think there's a hungry young player there ready to break out - but does he have physical limitations that prevent him from ever being one of those dudes?  
• Shakir was paid as a #2 and is a slot WR with some crazy wiggle at times.  Can he become one of those short yardage WR beasts in the vein of St. Brown, who is a true game changer in the big moments?
• Palmer is likely in the same spot in buffalo he was in LA, but he's now probably in a snap rotation with Samuel.  I think he can be an upgrade over Hollins, especially against teams that spammed buffalo with tight man coverage.  
• Samuel likely is who he is - gadget type with speed, who has the size to play inside and out in a pinch.  Probably more of a matchup and gameplan specific player, but still a valuable swiss army knife, and an upgrade over harty and mckenzie from that perspective.  

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, TwoFlocksofFury said:

Who the F would 'thumbs down' this?

I get how some would disagree. If that statement is true and Allen can score with anybody then why weren’t we able to have winning drives in the last two playoff losses against KC when the offense had the ball?
 

So if you’re saying Allen can score with any receivers then that means the receiving corp was adequate and it was Allen’s fault they couldn’t score. Most of us don’t think that’s the case. They need more reliable weapons in those situations for Allen. Just from the last two years of playoff failures should tell you that Allen can’t, in fact, score with anybody with the season on the line. 

[Gregg]

11 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I get how some would disagree. If that statement is true and Allen can score with anybody then why weren’t we able to have winning drives in the last two playoff losses against KC when the offense had the ball?
 

So if you’re saying Allen can score with any receivers then that means the receiving corp was adequate and it was Allen’s fault they couldn’t score. Most of us don’t think that’s the case. They need more reliable weapons in those situations for Allen. Just from the last two years of playoff failures should tell you that Allen can’t, in fact, score with anybody with the season on the line. 

 

This falls on Beane to bring more elite level talent in to help Josh. With the exception of #17 who else at the skill positions is elite. Cook is probably the closest one to elite, but he isn't on the level of Barkley and Henry. While the Bills have some nice receivers, they have nobody that scares the opposing defense. At the same time the defense has been a big problem in the playoffs. With the exception of the Ravens game from a few years back when they had the pick 6, I can't recall a playoff game where they played well. Talent and scheme are both to blame. That falls on both Beane and McDermott.

[BillsShredder83]

14 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Please, in reference to what I was saying, tell me what the hell your point is?  Are you saying Josh can't replicate last season?  Did you just jump in with a hot take without reading for context?  I clearly never said Josh can't be Superman.  I simply said if ever there was a season he had to do it less it was last year and there's no reason he can't play at last years level again.  I guess you also disagree with that?

Completely agree with your original post, and this follow up.  Josh was MVP, his lights out, mistake free football was the major deciding factor, but there were several players that had seasons like that!  We've seen him ball outta control and not win MVP plenty. Why win this year?  Because his receiving talent (or lack thereof ) was significantly lower than his peers, and what we've seen him have throughout his career.

 

He made a giant step in cutting down on crucial mistakes, no doubt.  Do I think he could do it again, absolutely!!  Imagine if he had the same type of year with a real NFL WR room though, that amplification could put us over the top.

 

TL:DR Josh could absolutely put out another year like that, but itd be nice if he had a better supporting cast.  Having a top QB doesnt mean investing minimally at WR position, and Im actually polar opposite of that.  The synergy of having a real outside threat or two is 1 + 1 = 10.  If I'm allowed to add one bonafide playmaker to this team; WR alone is going to give us way more juice than any other position.  I'd take one top 10 WR over adding even two top 10 players being added to the defense at any position.  

 

If there is a WR in this draft they feel strongly about, do whatever it takes to go get him.  If we dont see that guy, we need to pound the phones and talk to all 31 teams to see if that guy can be shook loose elsewhere.  We should be willing to give a healthy generous overpay for the right WR

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Completely agree with your original post, and this follow up.  Josh was MVP, his lights out, mistake free football was the major deciding factor, but there were several players that had seasons like that!  We've seen him ball outta control and not win MVP plenty. Why win this year?  Because his receiving talent (or lack thereof ) was significantly lower than his peers, and what we've seen him have throughout his career.

 

He made a giant step in cutting down on crucial mistakes, no doubt.  Do I think he could do it again, absolutely!!  Imagine if he had the same type of year with a real NFL WR room though, that amplification could put us over the top.

 

TL:DR Josh could absolutely put out another year like that, but itd be nice if he had a better supporting cast.  Having a top QB doesnt mean investing minimally at WR position, and Im actually polar opposite of that.  The synergy of having a real outside threat or two is 1 + 1 = 10.  If I'm allowed to add one bonafide playmaker to this team; WR alone is going to give us way more juice than any other position.  I'd take one top 10 WR over adding even two top 10 players being added to the defense at any position.  

 

If there is a WR in this draft they feel strongly about, do whatever it takes to go get him.  If we dont see that guy, we need to pound the phones and talk to all 31 teams to see if that guy can be shook loose elsewhere.  We should be willing to give a healthy generous overpay for the right WR

If I had the choice between playing Brian Thomas Jr or a healthy Benford and Quinyon Mitchell in last years championship game I'd have my decision before they even finished the question.  I'm with you that it would be nice to have an elite pass catcher outside but not to the extent that we field a defense that gets torched by Joe Milton and the has beens at WR.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

This falls on Beane to bring more elite level talent in to help Josh. With the exception of #17 who else at the skill positions is elite. Cook is probably the closest one to elite, but he isn't on the level of Barkley and Henry. While the Bills have some nice receivers, they have nobody that scares the opposing defense. At the same time the defense has been a big problem in the playoffs. With the exception of the Ravens game from a few years back when they had the pick 6, I can't recall a playoff game where they played well. Talent and scheme are both to blame. That falls on both Beane and McDermott.

To Beane’s credit he has secured one of the top OLine in the league. Now if he can only hit on a receiver that, like you said, scares defenses. I guess Diggs was that for a while until he wasn’t. 
 

Yeah, McD has to coach up the defense better in the playoffs for sure. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

This falls on Beane to bring more elite level talent in to help Josh. With the exception of #17 who else at the skill positions is elite. Cook is probably the closest one to elite, but he isn't on the level of Barkley and Henry. While the Bills have some nice receivers, they have nobody that scares the opposing defense. At the same time the defense has been a big problem in the playoffs. With the exception of the Ravens game from a few years back when they had the pick 6, I can't recall a playoff game where they played well. Talent and scheme are both to blame. That falls on both Beane and McDermott.

 

They played well vs the Broncos. It's easy to say "yea but Bo Nix, rookie, etc" but that offense had been on a tear down the stretch even against some playoff teams. The Bills held them to basically one play. Not even one drive. They scored with an opening drive bomb and then disappeared from the game. 

 

Now in the games we have lost.... yea they have been bad. I think that is kinda common though. When KC lose in the post season their D has been bad too. Their D hasn't been great against the Bills either. They have just tended to make one play in the crunch that ours hasn't.

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They played well vs the Broncos. It's easy to say "yea but Bo Nix, rookie, etc" but that offense had been on a tear down the stretch even against some playoff teams. The Bills held them to basically one play. Not even one drive. They scored with an opening drive bomb and then disappeared from the game. 

 

Now in the games we have lost.... yea they have been bad. I think that is kinda common though. When KC lose in the post season their D has been bad too. Their D hasn't been great against the Bills either. They have just tended to make one play in the crunch that ours hasn't.

 

You are right I forgot about the Broncos game. Thinking about the Chiefs, Bengals, and this year's Ravens playoff game over the years in the playoffs.

[Maine-iac]

For what it's worth. 

 

The Bills have 52 pass plays of 20 or more yards, which is tied with Detroit for second in the NFL  Last season, the Bills had 49 such passes in 17 games, which ranked 19th in the league. (Explosive pass plays are down a small percentage leaguewide this year.)

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-passing-game-joe-brady/article_850ccc26-bc96-11ef-b620-b34a05ec2150.html

Edited April 2 by Maine-iac

[Orlando Buffalo]

I have not seen it discussed but offensive efficiency is more important to me than simple points. If we score 28 pts on 6 drives that is better than 31 pts on 9 drives, especially if the 6 drive game is turnover free

[JP51]

Just win.

[BillsFanForever19]

On 3/28/2025 at 8:53 PM, Success said:

Allen can score w/ anyone.  We DO NOT need to worry much about offense. I'd be happy w/ a receiver in the early rounds, but it's not dire.

 

Defense, defense, defense.  We lose in the playoffs because or our DEFENSE.  It drives me bananas.

 

We need to focus there - both personnel, and scheme. 

 

You say "Allen can score with anyone".

 

I say when we give him subpar to average weapons, we rely on Josh to play like Superman way more than we should. Anything less than superhuman to overcome the lack of talent and we're in trouble in big games.

 

How often last season were we watching plays come easy to our opponents, ball out quickly while Josh scrambled around searching for someone to get separation and get open for him?

 

Against the best teams and the best Defenses - just "anyone" isn't enough. If it was enough, we wouldn't constantly be hitting a ceiling of losing in the AFC Championship. If it was enough, we wouldn't have been leaning on James Cook to keep us alive in the Chiefs game (who most fans want to get rid of too bc their feelings are hurt) - only for Dalton Kincaid to fail us with the game on the line.

 

We're failing Josh Allen by surrounding him with a WR core that's lacking on a regular basis.

[Maine-iac]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You say "Allen can score with anyone".

 

I say when we give him subpar to average weapons, we rely on Josh to play like Superman way more than we should. Anything less than superhuman to overcome the lack of talent and we're in trouble in big games.

 

Versus the Baltimore Ravens Allen was 16 of 22 for 127 yards with no passing TDs.  He played fine but not superhuman.  Defense got 3 turnovers and we won.  Philly held the Chiefs to 12 first downs and the Chiefs punted 6 times and destroyed them.  We're giving up on average over 30 points to the Chiefs every time we play them in the playoffs (we lose) and an average of right around 20 ppg in the regular season (we win).  Maybe ................ maybe what we need to get Josh is a defense.