Cap Space - Pre-Draft

[Mango]

20 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m so glad Josh didn’t try to squeeze every last penny out of the team. This could be a whole lot worse if we had a greedy A-hole QB.

 

Let me start by saying, I think Josh's requests and current deal are more than fair. And by all accounts Allen is an all time good human. 

But I also see stuff like this posted a lot. Beane admitted that Josh has been needling him with every new contract that he isn't paid more. We didn't get a 6 year extension, we got a 2 year extension with a pay increase for the next 4 years that was already on the books. 

The deal helps Josh. The deal helps the team. But lets not pretend that this is a TB12 type pay cut. We are talking about a contract that is the most guaranteed money in the history of the league. Again, this is a contract he was asking for. 

It is fine and good, but I don't find it remarkable or deserving much thanks. 
 

Edited March 26 by Mango

[No_Matter_What]

22 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Spotrac now has Bills with $3M in cap space.  Looks like the numbers have settled down.

They also corrected Josh's cap hit and added back the cap they took away for the LTBE incentives.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total_top51/dir/desc

 

I need to consult my own cap chart I have at home, but from memory I'd say that (other than Josh's incentive you mentioned) Hoecht and Ogunjobi's cap hits were adjusted - probably due to suspensions. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

50 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

Beane has said that the Bills are up against the cap. I highly doubt there are any more “big” moves outside of Dawkins being restructuted and possibly McGovern being extended.  I think the Benford and Cook deals do not happen this year.

I think in about 11 months Beane will be saying Cook has "Earned the right to test the market".

[vtnatefootball11]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is why it’s so important to hit on those first few picks. That’s the best way to find top end talent for this team. If they were able to get McDuffie instead of Elam, how much better would we be feeling? McConkey or Worthy instead of Coleman? Zay Flowers over Kincaid? It’s crucial this year that at least 1 of those 3 picks develops into a top 10 player at their position within the next 2 to 3 years. For example, it would be great if Kenneth Grant became a top 10 1T or Trey Amos a top 10 CB2 (if those were the guys that they picked). They have enough guys but not enough dudes. 

 

Could not agree more with your overall sentiment (other than the Worthy reference you are off the mark there he has shown nothing but gadget ability and that's with Andy Reid scheming specific plays for him every game).  We keep missing on good wide receivers, there are drafts where safe studs are there but we trade up for someone else (see Elam and Kincaid drafts) or we sit back and do nothing like last year when Brian Thomas Jr is sitting there just a couple picks in front of us!! Criminal on Beanes end. If he had Flowers and Thomas Jr. in the same grouping as Coleman and Kincaid that is flat out malpractice. 

19 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I see that your are checking Sportrac as often as I do

 

Ty Johnson - originally reported as $5M/2, in fact $4/2 with some incentives. Can be cut next year with almost no dead cap. Great deal.

 

Gilliam - same deal as Hamlin, and one thing I don't get. They say it is $2M guaranteed and he gets $2M in cash, but cap hit is $1,3M. Anybody knows how is this possible?

 

Dane - wow he signed basically (or maybe even literally) for vet min.

 

Yes, some contracts have a void year to spread out hit. They report 1 year at $2 mil but really there is void second year so the actual cap hit is $1.3m year 1 and $0.7m the void year after the leave. Pretty sure that was reported with Hamlin's deal, assuming Gilliam was the same.

 

[bills_fan]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think in about 11 months Beane will be saying Cook has "Earned the right to test the market".

 

 

And that will make me sad bc I love him as a player and wish he could be here long term.

[Mango]

20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

He can.  Like i said he can get about $8M for restructuring Dawkins but after that it gets problematic.

The next players to get cap from are:

 

Knox - Doubt extremely Beane pushes more money into next year.

DQ Jones - Last year.   A Post June 1 cut does save $5.5M

Samuel - Not sure you want to push back money on him.

Epenesa - Same as above.

McGovern - If he was re-signed also gets some cap relief.

T. Johnson - He can get you about $3M.

 

Players after those do not net you much cap at all.

 

 

 

Regarding Knox, I think we could maybe see an extension here. He hasn't lived up to his contract, yes. Which is why I think a mid to long term extension at a more fair value to finish his career with Josh could be on the table. Taking on 3-4 years (34/35 years old) to keep him under $10M would be huge. 

 

[ColoradoBills]

21 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Regarding Knox, I think we could maybe see an extension here. He hasn't lived up to his contract, yes. Which is why I think a mid to long term extension at a more fair value to finish his career with Josh could be on the table. Taking on 3-4 years (34/35 years old) to keep him under $10M would be huge. 

 

 

It is one way to adjust his worth.  I'm just not sure they can agree on the new $s.  I'd be for it.

If it doesn't happen then I think they move on from him next spring.  No way they are paying him $12M in new cash with $17M cap hit.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Could not agree more with your overall sentiment (other than the Worthy reference you are off the mark there he has shown nothing but gadget ability and that's with Andy Reid scheming specific plays for him every game).  We keep missing on good wide receivers, there are drafts where safe studs are there but we trade up for someone else (see Elam and Kincaid drafts) or we sit back and do nothing like last year when Brian Thomas Jr is sitting there just a couple picks in front of us!! Criminal on Beanes end. If he had Flowers and Thomas Jr. in the same grouping as Coleman and Kincaid that is flat out malpractice. 

 

Yes, some contracts have a void year to spread out hit. They report 1 year at $2 mil but really there is void second year so the actual cap hit is $1.3m year 1 and $0.7m the void year after the leave. Pretty sure that was reported with Hamlin's deal, assuming Gilliam was the same.

 

Xavier Worthy had 19 playoff receptions in 3 games!! Keon Coleman had 29 receptions during the season. We so desperately want Worthy to be a gadget guy. He looks like prime Desean Jackson

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Let me start by saying, I think Josh's requests and current deal are more than fair. And by all accounts Allen is an all time good human. 

But I also see stuff like this posted a lot. Beane admitted that Josh has been needling him with every new contract that he isn't paid more. We didn't get a 6 year extension, we got a 2 year extension with a pay increase for the next 4 years that was already on the books. 

The deal helps Josh. The deal helps the team. But lets not pretend that this is a TB12 type pay cut. We are talking about a contract that is the most guaranteed money in the history of the league. Again, this is a contract he was asking for. 

It is fine and good, but I don't find it remarkable or deserving much thanks. 
 

Josh kinda had the Bills over a barrel though, didn’t he?

 

I believe his 2025 cap hit was untenable.  He was notoriously underpaid relative to his position and could have requested more money in the extension and did not.

 

You are right that he didn’t take some massive discount, but he could have refused to extend to get to an even higher number.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I need to consult my own cap chart I have at home, but from memory I'd say that (other than Josh's incentive you mentioned) Hoecht and Ogunjobi's cap hits were adjusted - probably due to suspensions. 

If I remember correctly, they figure in the 4 mill for Draft picks effecting the top 51. So after the draft pool, we have 3 mill

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Let me start by saying, I think Josh's requests and current deal are more than fair. And by all accounts Allen is an all time good human. 

But I also see stuff like this posted a lot. Beane admitted that Josh has been needling him with every new contract that he isn't paid more. We didn't get a 6 year extension, we got a 2 year extension with a pay increase for the next 4 years that was already on the books. 

The deal helps Josh. The deal helps the team. But lets not pretend that this is a TB12 type pay cut. We are talking about a contract that is the most guaranteed money in the history of the league. Again, this is a contract he was asking for. 

It is fine and good, but I don't find it remarkable or deserving much thanks. 
 

Then I guess he should have asked for more

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

If I remember correctly, they figure in the 4 mill for Draft picks effecting the top 51. So after the draft pool, we have 3 mill

Then I guess he should have asked for more

 

Huh? 

He is the highest paid QB in the league....

I don't think the deal is good or bad. It is fair market value that works for both sides.

 

There are just a number of posters insinuating that this is some super awesome selfless thing he did. He played like the best QB in the league. Then he asked to be paid like the best QB in the league. Now he is the highest paid player in the NFL. 

I am fine with all of that. 

[vtnatefootball11]

21 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Xavier Worthy had 19 playoff receptions in 3 games!! Keon Coleman had 29 receptions during the season. We so desperately want Worthy to be a gadget guy. He looks like prime Desean Jackson

 

Worthy looks nothing like Desean Jackson. Jackson looked like the best player on the field even early on in his career, Worthy looks like he's being forced the ball a few times a game on designed plays. I will admit he has more in him than JUST a "gadget guy" but he is much closer to a gadget guy than Desean Jackson. Chiefs receiving corp was a mess heading into the playoffs, and Kelce is not nearly what he used to be. Keon easily could have been forced fed 19 receptions.  You are forgetting Worthy is getting a few "catches" a game on designed sweep/screens. He didn't catch a lot of balls that weren't designed to him. He's a useful NFL player with blazing speed but I haven't seen anything that tells me he's a WR1/2. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Worthy looks nothing like Desean Jackson. Jackson looked like the best player on the field even early on in his career, Worthy looks like he's being forced the ball a few times a game on designed plays. I will admit he has more in him than JUST a "gadget guy" but he is much closer to a gadget guy than Desean Jackson. Chiefs receiving corp was a mess heading into the playoffs, and Kelce is not nearly what he used to be. Keon easily could have been forced fed 19 receptions.  You are forgetting Worthy is getting a few "catches" a game on designed sweep/screens. He didn't catch a lot of balls that weren't designed to him. He's a useful NFL player with blazing speed but I haven't seen anything that tells me he's a WR1/2. 

Keon caught 10 of his last 29 targets!! At that rate, the Bills would have needed to throw him the ball like 57 times to get to 19 receptions. That’s 2 games worth of throws. They could have done it easily? 🤣🤣 Do you honestly believe, at this point, that Coleman will be a better player than Worthy? I 100% don’t believe that and not sure that a reasonable person could at this point. 

 

Again, we have chosen to hate on him because he went in the slot that was the Bills AND he went to the Chiefs. He came on after Thanksgiving and exploded in the playoffs. He’s showing the trajectory that you’d hope for a 1st round rookie. He got better as the year went along not the other way around. Feel free to hate all that you want but Worthy and Rice are a very dangerous combo. They are explosive playmakers. 

[vtnatefootball11]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Keon caught 10 of his last 29 targets!! At that rate, the Bills would have needed to throw him the ball like 57 times to get to 19 receptions. That’s 2 games worth of throws. They could have done it easily? 🤣🤣 Do you honestly believe, at this point, that Coleman will be a better player than Worthy? I 100% don’t believe that and not sure that a reasonable person could at this point. 

 

Again, we have chosen to hate on him because he went in the slot that was the Bills AND he went to the Chiefs. He came on after Thanksgiving and exploded in the playoffs. He’s showing the trajectory that you’d hope for a 1st round rookie. He got better as the year went along not the other way around. Feel free to hate all that you want but Worthy and Rice are a very dangerous combo. They are explosive playmakers. 

 

I never said I'd rather have Keon or that Keon is better, I was responding to your point that Keon never could have caught 19 balls in the playoffs (sure he could, if he was force fed like Worthy was on a squad with depleted receivers, that was my point, any NFL receiver can do that if force fed).  Worthy was definitely better than Keon his rookie year and way more explosive, nobody is hating on him and nobody said they would rather have Keon. My point is he is still more of a gadget guy for Reid to scheme up than a bonafide starting WR. Rice and Holywood Brown will be the leading receivers, I'm sure Worthy will eat up designed screens and sweeps and short passes and have some explosive plays, but he doesn't scare anyone as a pure receiver. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

I never said I'd rather have Keon or that Keon is better, I was responding to your point that Keon never could have caught 19 balls in the playoffs (sure he could, if he was force fed like Worthy was on a squad with depleted receivers, that was my point, any NFL receiver can do that if force fed).  Worthy was definitely better than Keon his rookie year and way more explosive, nobody is hating on him and nobody said they would rather have Keon. My point is he is still more of a gadget guy for Reid to scheme up than a bonafide starting WR. Rice and Holywood Brown will be the leading receivers, I'm sure Worthy will eat up designed screens and sweeps and short passes and have some explosive plays, but he doesn't scare anyone as a pure receiver. 

Agree to disagree on multiple fronts. In the playoffs Worthy caught 19 of 21 targets for 15.1 YPR. That’s Desean Jacksonish. He became a bigger problem for teams as the year went along. He’s a bonafide starting receiver and one that keeps DCs up at night. 
 

Fair on the comparison with the 2 players. The disagreement there lies in, the thought that Coleman could have had 19 catches on 21 targets. He caught 10 of his last 29. That’s so incredibly inefficient. That’s why he can’t be more than a jump ball guy until (and if) he learns to get open. You can’t provide volume to a guy that catches 1/3 of them. That’s with the MVP throwing him the ball. He will see a few throws a game and be a part time player. Coleman might be able to become early Gabe Davis. 

[vtnatefootball11]

56 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agree to disagree on multiple fronts. In the playoffs Worthy caught 19 of 21 targets for 15.1 YPR. That’s Desean Jacksonish. He became a bigger problem for teams as the year went along. He’s a bonafide starting receiver and one that keeps DCs up at night. 
 

Fair on the comparison with the 2 players. The disagreement there lies in, the thought that Coleman could have had 19 catches on 21 targets. He caught 10 of his last 29. That’s so incredibly inefficient. That’s why he can’t be more than a jump ball guy until (and if) he learns to get open. You can’t provide volume to a guy that catches 1/3 of them. That’s with the MVP throwing him the ball. He will see a few throws a game and be a part time player. Coleman might be able to become early Gabe Davis. 

 

Love how you are cherry picking the stats. 15.1 YPR in the playoffs sure, when you include a couple big plays that enlarge the averages and include sweeps ands screens with run after the catch etc., but are those really "catches"?? Look at Worthy's average depth of target for all of 2024, 9.1 yards which is very low compared to WRs league wide. Keon had 15.2, almost double!!! His targets were a lot harder to catch, were further down the filed by a wide margin.  Worthy should have had more avg distance considering he ran plenty of fly/go routes on deep shots, he has no intermediate game and is not a complete receiver.  Actually watch the game film my man, and I mean all of his routes, not just the highlights and cherry picked stats. Sure, you have to watch him on the gadget play and respect his speed deep but he's not good enough at the receiver position yet to be on the field full time, even in Reid's offense, maybe he will get there but the odds say no. This has nothing to do with Coleman, who knows where his development will go.

 

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/xavier-worthy-17687

 

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/keon-coleman-17732

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Love how you are cherry picking the stats. 15.1 YPR in the playoffs sure, when you include a couple big plays that enlarge the averages and include sweeps ands screens with run after the catch etc., but are those really "catches"?? Look at Worthy's average depth of target for all of 2024, 9.1 yards which is very low compared to WRs league wide. Keon had 15.2, almost double!!! His targets were a lot harder to catch, were further down the filed by a wide margin.  Worthy should have had more avg distance considering he ran plenty of fly/go routes on deep shots, he has no intermediate game and is not a complete receiver.  Actually watch the game film my man, and I mean all of his routes, not just the highlights and cherry picked stats. Sure, you have to watch him on the gadget play and respect his speed deep but he's not good enough at the receiver position yet to be on the field full time, even in Reid's offense, maybe he will get there but the odds say no. This has nothing to do with Coleman, who knows where his development will go.

 

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/xavier-worthy-17687

 

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/keon-coleman-17732

Keep arguing with facts. Yell at the clouds. Do whatever helps you to sleep at night. I watched Worthy take off late in the year and in the playoffs. I gave you facts. You chose to stick your fingers in your ears and yell “La La La La La, I can’t hear you” because it’s a painful truth. The Chiefs drafted a young Desean Jackson (in the Bills slot) and the Bills drafted a young Gabe Davis. 

[vtnatefootball11]

54 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Keep arguing with facts. Yell at the clouds. Do whatever helps you to sleep at night. I watched Worthy take off late in the year and in the playoffs. I gave you facts. You chose to stick your fingers in your ears and yell “La La La La La, I can’t hear you” because it’s a painful truth. The Chiefs drafted a young Desean Jackson (in the Bills slot) and the Bills drafted a young Gabe Davis. 

 

Hahha okay buddy

[transplantbillsfan]

I believe the Benford extension will actually open up some CAP space considering he was projected to make extra this season with the 4th year performance bonus.

 

So we didn't need to restructure anyone for this signing 

[GASabresIUFan]

On 3/26/2025 at 11:37 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think in about 11 months Beane will be saying Cook has "Earned the right to test the market".

Or he'll tag him and keep him for a 5th year.