Bills 28th in draft capital spent on WR’s since 2020

[Maine-iac]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Imagine what Josh could do with more weapons.

Is he going to do more than the 13 seconds game?  Money doesn't buy you happiness and offense doesn't guarantee you wins.  It does help a lot.  Still not a guarantee.

[eee1776]

We still have to create more cap money because we have to have 90 players to go to camp with. Is that mandatory?

[todd]

2 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Is he going to do more than the 13 seconds game?  Money doesn't buy you happiness and offense doesn't guarantee you wins.  It does help a lot.  Still not a guarantee.

 

Exactly! Gabe Davis had 4 touchdowns in that game. Dang incredible. It wasn't WRs that lost that game, it was Frasier and the ST coach who screwed it all up. Would more WRs have won that game? No way. 

 

But yeah, keep digging for ways beane sucks. You'll hit the center of the earth soon and we won't have to listen to that garbage any more.

[Pete]

On 3/24/2025 at 5:13 PM, Maine-iac said:

Yet here we are in the playoffs every year and a top team in scoring as well.  Top 5 on that list have how many playoff visits out of 25 chances?

Imagine if we had WR who could separate?  

[streetkings01]

We traded for Diggs, drafted Davis and signed Beasley, Brown and Sanders over that span. We chose to go the free agency/trade route with that position which worked out for us.

[chongli]

On 3/24/2025 at 2:30 PM, JerseyBills said:

Coop too

 

But he shouldn't count until this year's draft is completed.

On 3/24/2025 at 3:15 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

Have to include a 3rd for Cooper too.

 

But only after this year's draft though.

Edited Wednesday at 12:59 PM by chongli

[Thurman#1]

22 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sharp makes it very unclear

 

But just from bar napkin math, the Vikings have drafted 2 WR’s in the first round alone but they are only middle of the pack. In addition, they have a fifth, fifth and sixth.
 

now off the top of my head, from a draft pick valuation standpoint, that should probably be among the highest valued.

 

For the Bengals, they have a second, a first, a fourth, a sixth and a third.

 

The Giants have a first, a third, a third, and a first.

 

I am suspicious that this list is truly kind of nonsense.

 

 

Sharp does make it unclear.

 

That's interesting. I doubt Sharp's numbers are nonsense, but you make a good point here.

[Thurman#1]

On 3/25/2025 at 9:04 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yes the post clearly shows that.  So you would agree that the issue with those teams is the QB spot, not that they spent capital on WRs, which is the point.  

 

Nabers is going to be a great NFL receiver, but the Giants passed on Nix and Penix because they are as incompetently run as the Jets.

 

 

You're missing the point. 

 

First, "the issue with those teams," is a poor statement of the problem. There isn't one problem. There are many. Teams are complex and problems are many.

 

Is a large part of the problem with those teams that their QB is not good enough? Yeah. But equally, teams that don't have QBs in the top 8 or 10 or so don't have to pay massive QB salaries. That both forces them to find alternative ways to compete offensively and gives them more money to use in other ways on the offense. 

 

Those are the teams that generally end up thinking, "Yeah, let's spend a ton on WR. Maybe we can help out our QB enough to make the offense good enough even without a great QB."

 

Teams that are spending a ton on great QBs have to make that up somewhere. One of the most common ways for great teams to do that is to not spend a lot on WRs. They figure a great QB doesn't need a true #1. Did KC re-sign Tyreek?

 

Through the history of Super Bowl winners there are very few true #1 WRs on those rosters. Very few, particularly on 2nd contracts. Teams that pay those huge WR contracts are often teams that don't have top tier QBs and don't win Super Bowls, particularly after the start of the free agency era.

 

 

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Imagine if we had WR who could separate?  

 

 

We had a ton of them a few years ago, with John Brown, Beasley, Manny Sands, Diggs, etc. 

 

Yet last year was our best offensive year ever.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Teams that are spending a ton on great QBs have to make that up somewhere. One of the most common ways for great teams to do that is to not spend a lot on WRs. They figure a great QB doesn't need a true #1. Did KC re-sign Tyreek?

 

Through the history of Super Bowl winners there are very few true #1 WRs on those rosters. Very few, particularly on 2nd contracts. Teams that pay those huge WR contracts are often teams that don't have top tier QBs and don't win Super Bowls, particularly after the start of the free agency era.

 

 

 

obviously this strategy has worked out infinitely better for the Chiefs than the Bills...

 

[Thurman#1]

On 3/25/2025 at 6:39 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Disagree,  think you need to look at the those  teams and see how many of those players drafted are still on the team.  I'd imagine not too many so regardless of the QB situation, shows these teams just wasted their draft capital.

 

Would also argue you don't need to spend a huge amount of draft capital on WR's when you have a great QB.  Shakir was what a 5th round pick.  Do you think he'd have looked half  as good if he were on the Giants?  Lets see how Hollins does this coming year.

 

The Bills also drafted 2 TE's in Knox and Kincaid which should be factored in.  And did the trade for Diggs count or not, or did Sharp only count players actually drafted?? 

 

On 3/25/2025 at 9:04 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

TE's don't count if you stay in the confines of the topic of the thread.  Knox has settled in to mediocrity.  Kincaid is a short yardage checkdown receiver who didn't get better his sophomore year.

 

Shakir on the Giants?  Who knows.  But Wan'Dale Robinson was able to improve every year despite  bad QB play. 

 

Hollins is a journeyman on his 6th team in 8 seasons--best season was with Derrick Carr throwing the ball in Vegas.

 

Diggs doesn't count because he also isn't on the team (and the Bills total Offense improved after he left).  He never got them over the top anyway. 

 

Anyway, yes having the best QB in the league hides a lot of faults.  Ignoring the position in the draft annually may contribute to zero SB appearances. 

 

 

Of course TEs count. His point is precisely that having TEs helps add specifically to having good and dangerous targets in the pass game. It helps explain why teams might not need to spend a lot on WRs.

 

Diggs absolutely counts when someone is trying to make a point about a lack of draft resources being used on WRs. Diggs was officially brought here in a trade, but it was a first round pick that was traded. That pick was what brought in Diggs, even if it did not do so int he draft.

 

Kincaid was injured. We've heard that from a lot of sources at this point. Nothing is a sure thing, but he's likely to be a lot better this year. And Knox isn't mediocre. He's pretty damn good. He blocks very well, which is why he gets a lot of snaps, and he scores TDs, and he catches a good percentage of his targets for a guy who gained 14.1 yards per reception last year. Was he paid too much int the contract they gave him when they didn't know they could get Kincaid? Yeah, he was. But he's not mediocre. Before Kincaid, he was getting more than 500 yards a season and a lot of TDs.

 

Agreed that having one of the absolute best QBs hides faults. So does having Shakir. So does having a terrific OL. So does having Cook, and the same for defense. Yeah, you want an elite QB like the one we've got. That's part of the reason you want him, so you don't have to spend a ton of money elsewhere and you can spend your best draft capital elsewhere. Defense is the problem on this team after we lost Poyer and Hyde and with DaQuan taking a step back.

 

[Thurman#1]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

obviously this strategy has worked out infinitely better for the Chiefs than the Bills...

 

 

 

"Infinitely" is overstating it, but yes it's worked out better for them. But we should have won that game last year, in a year that was supposed to be a step back. If the refs had got that tush push first down call correct, if Kincaid had held onto that final catch, or if Josh had not been dismal the first two drives, we'd have been in the Super Bowl.

 

When the team that's winning Super Bowls is using a strategy, people should probably not be saying it's not workable.

 

The last two dynasties have both featured TEs, have not spent a ton of resources on WR, and their elite QBs, like ours, have allowed them to have a great deal of offensive success with that strategy of using resources.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

obviously this strategy has worked out infinitely better for the Chiefs than the Bills...

 

Chiefs still had/have Kelce who is better than anyone the Bills can put on the field as a receiving options well maybe not now as looks like his best years are a thing of the past. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

On 3/25/2025 at 9:24 AM, FireChans said:

So contextually, if I said “this stat is meaningful because Josh Allen once again was relying on throwing to a Mack Hollins-tier player in the most important game of the year which we lost,” does that help?

That's not the direction I was going with my comment, but as usual you miss the point. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:06 PM by Bob Chandler's Hands

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Infinitely" is overstating it, but yes it's worked out better for them. But we should have won that game last year, in a year that was supposed to be a step back. If the refs had got that tush push first down call correct, if Kincaid had held onto that final catch, or if Josh had not been dismal the first two drives, we'd have been in the Super Bowl.

 

When the team that's winning Super Bowls is using a strategy, people should probably not be saying it's not workable.

 

The last two dynasties have both featured TEs, have not spent a ton of resources on WR, and their elite QBs, like ours, have allowed them to have a great deal of offensive success with that strategy of using resources.

Allen fumbled 3 times and KC recovered none of them. He had two clear INT's dropped on the first drive. KC gifted us a fumble. Cook literally flew thru the air on a must have 4th down TD. We got another must have 4th down later.  If we are doing the alternate outcome game one exists in which we aren't even within 14 points.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Of course TEs count. His point is precisely that having TEs helps add specifically to having good and dangerous targets in the pass game. It helps explain why teams might not need to spend a lot on WRs.

 

Diggs absolutely counts when someone is trying to make a point about a lack of draft resources being used on WRs. Diggs was officially brought here in a trade, but it was a first round pick that was traded. That pick was what brought in Diggs, even if it did not do so int he draft.

 

Kincaid was injured. We've heard that from a lot of sources at this point. Nothing is a sure thing, but he's likely to be a lot better this year. And Knox isn't mediocre. He's pretty damn good. He blocks very well, which is why he gets a lot of snaps, and he scores TDs, and he catches a good percentage of his targets for a guy who gained 14.1 yards per reception last year. Was he paid too much int the contract they gave him when they didn't know they could get Kincaid? Yeah, he was. But he's not mediocre. Before Kincaid, he was getting more than 500 yards a season and a lot of TDs.

 

Agreed that having one of the absolute best QBs hides faults. So does having Shakir. So does having a terrific OL. So does having Cook, and the same for defense. Yeah, you want an elite QB like the one we've got. That's part of the reason you want him, so you don't have to spend a ton of money elsewhere and you can spend your best draft capital elsewhere. Defense is the problem on this team after we lost Poyer and Hyde and with DaQuan taking a step back.

 

 

in 2023, Kincaid averaged 42 YPG.  Before he went out after week 10, he was averaging 35.6 in 2024. His catch % was 80 in 2023 and dropped to 57% before he went out last year. The decline was already happening. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Infinitely" is overstating it, but yes it's worked out better for them. But we should have won that game last year, in a year that was supposed to be a step back. If the refs had got that tush push first down call correct, if Kincaid had held onto that final catch, or if Josh had not been dismal the first two drives, we'd have been in the Super Bowl.

 

When the team that's winning Super Bowls is using a strategy, people should probably not be saying it's not workable.

 

The last two dynasties have both featured TEs, have not spent a ton of resources on WR, and their elite QBs, like ours, have allowed them to have a great deal of offensive success with that strategy of using resources.

 

The difference between 1 and zero is infinity.  Then there is 5 SB appearances in 6 seasons with 3 wins.

 

we don't have a feature TE.  Knox was wildly overpaid (no on pays a TE to block for that kind of money).  His YPC is meaningless because he only had 22 all season.  He is the definition of mediocre.  He's disappeared since he got that contract.  Huge contract then they use a 1st round pick in a reach for Kincaid.

 

Remember when everyone was drooling over the 2 TE sets we would be seeing with these 2?  Where is it?  And you are grouping the Bills use of TEs with the Chiefs and NE?  No one else is, that's for sure.

 

 

[BillsVet]

 

On 3/25/2025 at 12:22 PM, Bill from NYC said:

Imagine what Josh could do with more weapons.

 

Imagine what Josh could do with another CB. 

 

At this point it's just plain comical watching this franchise and having Josh Allen.  Like Lucy not letting Charlie kick the ball comical.  

 

They rostered the worst 5 WR to open the '24 season since Buddy and Chan and it was so bad they needed to make a trade after Week 6.  Cooper then opened up the passing game by his mere presence, but has likely played his last game and won't be returning.  Leaves Buffalo with spare part types in Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman.

 

Solution?  Sign a guy who's averaging 47 yards per over his last 3 seasons and expect him to produce against better coverage.  Expect Coleman to suddenly figure it out in year 2.  And, perhaps expect Kincaid to live up to his draft status.  

 

If it doesn't happen...can't blame the reigning NFL MVP.  Yet, management won't admit error running a scheme that has no margin for error and features meh offensive skilled talent.  Then what?  Draft another RB?  Fire the OC?

 

The offense will take a step back this year.  How much is the question.   

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

27 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Imagine what Josh could do with another CB. 

 

At this point it's just plain comical watching this franchise and having Josh Allen.  Like Lucy not letting Charlie kick the ball comical.  

 

They rostered the worst 5 WR to open the '24 season since Buddy and Chan and it was so bad they needed to make a trade after Week 6.  Cooper then opened up the passing game by his mere presence, but has likely played his last game and won't be returning.  Leaves Buffalo with spare part types in Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman.

 

Solution?  Sign a guy who's averaging 47 yards per over his last 3 seasons and expect him to produce against better coverage.  Expect Coleman to suddenly figure it out in year 2.  And, perhaps expect Kincaid to live up to his draft status.  

 

If it doesn't happen...can't blame the reigning NFL MVP.  Yet, management won't admit error running a scheme that has no margin for error and features meh offensive skilled talent.  Then what?  Draft another RB?  Fire the OC?

 

The offense will take a step back this year.  How much is the question.   

 

And that was the opinion last year and they score was it the 2nd most points in the league and Allen was in the top 10 in every category.  Somebody caught all those passes he threw.

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

And that was the opinion last year and they score was it the 2nd most points in the league and Allen was in the top 10 in every category.  Somebody caught all those passes he threw.

Yes but I think that both of us will agree with the fact that Josh Allen makes these players look better than they would be playing with lesser quarterbacks.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yes but I think that both of us will agree with the fact that Josh Allen makes these players look better than they would be playing with lesser quarterbacks.

 

Absolutely and that's why I don't think there's nearly as much of a need for a "true #1 WR" when you have an Allen or a Mahomes at QB, you can make lesser players around you look great.  Would Chase and Higgins really be as good if their QB were Daniel Jones?

 

Didn't the Bills get a #1 pick for Peerless Price from Falcons after he played with Bledsoe for a season or two, then didn't do much of anything in Atlanta.

[T master]

On 3/24/2025 at 5:09 PM, DJB said:

 

 

And yet we set a league record last season in scoring more points than any other team with out a true number 1 - go figure .

 

Even when we had a true number 1 the offense didn't score as much as the offense did last season .