Ty Johnson is the modern day Fred Jackson

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Love Ty, but he’s definitely NOT FredEx. 

[Saint Doug]

OP makes good arguments and the value of TJ is plain to see. Being a RB, his most memorable plays were him acting as a WR. That said, I don’t see the connection to Fred nor do I think he is the same league as Fred. A better comparison would be Fred vs Cook. 

[transient]

22 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

OP makes good arguments and the value of TJ is plain to see. Being a RB, his most memorable plays were him acting as a WR. That said, I don’t see the connection to Fred nor do I think he is the same league as Fred. A better comparison would be Fred vs Cook. 

If only Cook could block like Fred.

[Spiderweb]

4 hours ago, clearwater cadet said:

Don't get me wrong I love Ty, but Freddy was a special player on a lousy franchise / team for years.  I forget the year but that opening day run he had against the bears to win the game, still goes down in my book as one of the best plays in Bills history, and I've been watching for 45 years. 

Talking about the awesome stuff arm he laid on Conti? Yeah, that was awesome ..

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, transient said:

Fred was a feature back. Cook is a feature back. I like what Ty brings, but I think his stats represent change of pace numbers that wouldn't translate if he was an every down player.

Why? 

1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Love Ty, but he’s definitely NOT FredEx. 

Has he really ever had a chance? All I see is a player that takes advantage of every opportunity given and one that is explosive in the pass game. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Fred was a feature back and Ty Johnson wasn’t. Fred Jackson played on god awful teams , Ty Johnson hasn’t. Fred Jackson was a hell of a receiving back I don’t care what the stars depicted but Jackson did more with less. 
 

Johnson is good in his role but I just don’t see it in his 28/29 year old season if Cook moves on. If people legit thought this around the league he wouldn’t have been back for 2.5 a year 

I didn’t mean Ty Johnson should be an every down back in the mold of Saquon or Henry. I was only showing his numbers which are very good for the amount of touches he gets. What I was implying was a 1-2 punch of TJ/Ray Davis wouldn’t be much of a drop off from James Cook especially at 15 mill a year. The Bills would get much more bang for their buck in money vs production. IDK if people are understanding my post properly. 

[gonzo1105]

14 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I didn’t mean Ty Johnson should be an every down back in the mold of Saquon or Henry. I was only showing his numbers which are very good for the amount of touches he gets. What I was implying was a 1-2 punch of TJ/Ray Davis wouldn’t be much of a drop off from James Cook especially at 15 mill a year. The Bills would get much more bang for their buck in money vs production. IDK if people are understanding my post properly. 

I get ya I just don’t think the assumption that if Johnson had a heavier workload he’d be equal in the production is necessarily true either. I just added the 2.5 million thing to emphasize that 31 other teams felt he wasn’t worth more than that or to give him a heavier role in their offense. He is what he is a 3rd down back who works great in this offense in that role but might not in another system 

[Dafan]

Freddy was great.  And if not for injury in 2011, he was on pace to be a mvp candidate.  In 9.5 games (injured during 10th game) he lead the league in all purpose yards with roughly 950 rushing and 450 receiving.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Fred was a feature back and Ty Johnson wasn’t. Fred Jackson played on god awful teams , Ty Johnson hasn’t. Fred Jackson was a hell of a receiving back I don’t care what the stars depicted but Jackson did more with less. 
 

Johnson is good in his role but I just don’t see it in his 28/29 year old season if Cook moves on. If people legit thought this around the league he wouldn’t have been back for 2.5 a year 

Freddie is without compare as to how he played for the Bills. Clutch. Always a little bit more than you expected. Huge effort guy.

 Ah  yea i have a man crush on Fred still , and biased.

Very pleased Ty is on the team another year !

[Your Brown Eye]

Those words would get you beat up on parts of Chippewa

[BillsFanForever19]

Ty is great. But I don't see the comparison beyond being a RB who has exceeded expectations. Ty is a great receiving RB and a great 3rd Down back. Fred was an every down workhorse. 

[3rdand12]

15 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I get ya I just don’t think the assumption that if Johnson had a heavier workload he’d be equal in the production is necessarily true either. I just added the 2.5 million thing to emphasize that 31 other teams felt he wasn’t worth more than that or to give him a heavier role in their offense. He is what he is a 3rd down back who works great in this offense in that role but might not in another system 

I have to go along with this thinking from gonzo.

But an offense could be tweaked to let Davis be the man and Ty is a change of that pace compliment ?

How old is Johnson these days btw ?

 Draft one sincerely if the Bills are starting Davis cuz we will need another Cook type ( who can block )

Like Fred?

[HOUSE]

Freddy Jackson???

 

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

Freddy Jackson???

 

Freddie Jackson ?

Edited Saturday at 09:46 PM by 3rdand12

[transient]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Why? 

He's been in the league for 5 years with 3 teams. With more touches with the Jets his numbers were less impressive. I think part of his success with the Bills is the element of surprise the way Brady uses him, and I don't think he'd be as effective being used as an every down back or as a 1-2 punch with Davis.

 

I'm of the opinion that Cook's fluid acceleration, elusiveness and explosiveness is what makes that running game go. As much as I'm not in favor of paying RB's big $, I'm wary of what would happen to the Bills' cast of misfits offense without a RB with his abilities in it. I think Johnson and Davis would be at best Singletary and Moss with a better OL, except Singletary and Moss had the benefit of a better WR corps to carry the load.

[Starr Almighty]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This is a fallacy that does not make your argument more convincing.  About 50 guys in NFL history have over 2000 yards from scrimmage (only 6 in the last 5 years (aided by 17th game).  TJ will never be one of them.  Davis had an anemic 4.9 yards per touch.

 

I don't think they should pay Cook 15 million, but aging vet TJ has never been the guy you are wishing for.  

How is 4.9 anemic? 1st and 10 hand him the ball 3 times and that's a 👉🏻

 

Ty is good at what he does but he doesn't have the cool Let James Cook name 

[boyst]

History is foggy for too many to say that because Cook is the feature back Johnson can't be Fred Jackson. Jackson had Lynch ahead of him 3 seasons; in 2007 Jackson played in 8 games. After Jackson left Spiller came in as the primary hyped back. By his final year the Bills brought in Bryce Brown to try to unseat him.

 

Time after time the roster had a back more highly rated than him to be above him.

 

Jackson for 1k yards when Lynch didn't even break 500. For some reason everyone remembers Lynch as a better back. I don't. 13 years (11 of them worthy) Lynch did beat Jackson's stats. For the 6 years of Jackson in his prime he was as good as Lynch.

[billsfan89]

I have said this a lot about Ty but he reminds me a lot of a less powerful but faster Kevin Faulk. Faulk was always making clutch catches for 2-3 key first downs in big moments for the Pats while being a reliable backup and good pass blocker. Faulk much like Ty was an elite role player

 

Faulk was an elite "third down back" in fact he was the first player I remember when I first started watching football in the late 90's and early 00's be referred to as a "3rd down back". Funny enough it was the Parcells/Billy B Giants that developed the modern 3rd down back with Dave Meggett. And then Faulk served that role well for the entire 2000's. 

 

Ty was a major factor in winning the Lions game and he had a good amount of key moments in other games as well. Similar to how 1-2 games a year Faulk would put up a big stat line that was key to winning a game and then most of the year just but up efficient somewhat low volume stats. 

[MasterStrategist]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I’m gonna go out on a HUGE limb here and probably get some negative reactions/comments, but I really don’t care. We don’t NEED James Cook. Why? Because Ty Johnson is the modern day Fred Jackson of the Buffalo Bills. 
 

2024 Season

TJ = 59 touches, 8.4 yards a touch. 

Cook = 239 touches with a 5.6 yard average. 

Cook has 1267 scrimmage yards which is very respectable. Now give TJ the same amount of touches as Cook and it projects to 2007.6 scrimmage yards. 
 

TJ is a significantly better receiver. He had 1/5 the amount of pass targets as Cook and still has a higher yard & TD total. 
 

TJ also has a higher YPC at 5.2 and Cook at a 4.9, but I will still give the slight edge to Cook as he had a much bigger workload. Johnson has 20 lbs on Cook and I think would give Buffalo the edge in the red zone. 

 

As far as run blocking, it is obvious that TJ is superior. Our own Josh Allen said he was the best 3rd down back in the NFL. Probably because of his elite outlet receiver skills and ability to pick up rushers. I’ve never seen him whiff on one block. There’s a reason he was the least sacked QB last year and TJ played a big role in that. 
 

The last point I’ll make it Ty Johnson is still relatively young at 27 and with very little wear & tear. Buffalo could easily get 3-4 more seasons out of him. 
 

We saw the same arguments with Fred Jackson that his pedigree wasn’t good enough, that he is too old, that the guy starting ahead of him was simply better. Fans who had a keen eye for talent knew that Jackson was the real deal. Why? Because every time he had the ball, he was a monster. The numbers didn’t lie either as I remember him averaging well over 5 ypc. Still the dumb ass coaching staff drafted CJ Spiller when they already had a star on the roster. 

 

This thread isn’t about putting down Cook who is an excellent back. It’s more about money vs production. I think we could get much more value rolling with Ty Johnson/Ray Davis vs James Cook @ 15 million a year. The drop off in rushing yards would be very minimal if there even is a drop off? RB involvement in the pass game would increase drastically as Ray Davis is a very good receiver in his own right. It just seems like every time Ty Johnson touched the ball, it was a first down. I would roll the dice and try to trade Cook possibly a player for player. The Bills don’t need this type of distraction while they have championship aspirations. Hopefully the FO has learned from the whole Diggs debacle and nips this thing ASAP. 

 

Lol.  I love TY, but dude can't hold up to a full complement of carries/touches.

 

Fred was on a whole other level than TY.  

 

TY is the equivalent to our Darren Sproles/name any top level change of pace 3rd down back.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Lol.  I love TY, but dude can't hold up to a full complement of carries/touches.

 

Fred was on a whole other level than TY.  

 

TY is the equivalent to our Darren Sproles/name any top level change of pace 3rd down back.

Ok, I get it. But has he really had the opportunity?? I haven’t seen anything showing he can’t take a 50/50 split with Ray Davis. He’s built much thicker than Cook (that sounded suspect) but it’s true. And I don’t recall any injury history. Why is this narrative going around?

4 hours ago, transient said:

He's been in the league for 5 years with 3 teams. With more touches with the Jets his numbers were less impressive. I think part of his success with the Bills is the element of surprise the way Brady uses him, and I don't think he'd be as effective being used as an every down back or as a 1-2 punch with Davis.

 

I'm of the opinion that Cook's fluid acceleration, elusiveness and explosiveness is what makes that running game go. As much as I'm not in favor of paying RB's big $, I'm wary of what would happen to the Bills' cast of misfits offense without a RB with his abilities in it. I think Johnson and Davis would be at best Singletary and Moss with a better OL, except Singletary and Moss had the benefit of a better WR corps to carry the load.

And Fred Jackson went to a division 3 college and bounced around in the arena league. He didn’t get his chance until he was damn near 30. Ty Johnson has great hands/route running, compact build, and good speed (4.4 forty.) Plenty of guys bounced around on practice squads before finally making their mark. Josh Allen seemed to respect his skills.