It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper

[DJB]

7 hours ago, Vickveto said:

Do you believe he is the best DT in draft? 

No the other kid from Michigan is the best DT in the draft and Harmon.

 

 

Those are my top 2. 
 

Grant is the best 1T however 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, DJB said:

No the other kid from Michigan is the best DT in the draft and Harmon.

 

 

Those are my top 2. 
 

Grant is the best 1T however 

 

I have Grant below Graham, Nolen and Harmon. He is DT4 for me. But agree if you want a high end 1T he is the best pure 1T in the class. I think Harmon can play both, Graham and Nolen are 3Ts only. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have Grant below Graham, Nolen and Harmon. He is DT4 for me. But agree if you want a high end 1T he is the best pure 1T in the class. I think Harmon can play both, Graham and Nolen are 3Ts only. 

So you grab Grant, even if you have to move up a couple of spots to do it, and then go CB in Round 2. If so, who’s the best Corner (that fits McDs scheme) where we pick? 

[DJB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have Grant below Graham, Nolen and Harmon. He is DT4 for me. But agree if you want a high end 1T he is the best pure 1T in the class. I think Harmon can play both, Graham and Nolen are 3Ts only. 

Do you have concerns with Nolen and how his motor runs hot and cold? 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So you grab Grant, even if you have to move up a couple of spots to do it, and then go CB in Round 2. If so, who’s the best Corner (that fits McDs scheme) where we pick? 

 

That is where you strike into a problem. I think late second is likely to be a bit of a wasteland at corner. In terms of corners with 1st or 2nd type grades I have:

 

1st round: Hunter (if you think he is a CB); Barron; Johnson

1st/2nd: Revel - MAJOR injury red flag

2nd: Hariston; Morrison - MAJOR injury red flag; Amos; Thomas

2nd/3rd: Porter

 

And there are so many corner needy teams I am just not sure any of those 9 get to the Bills at the bottom of the second unless the medicals on Revel or Morrison are so bad that they fall - and if that is the case the Bills won't pick them anyway. 

 

After that my next tier is something like Dorian Strong, Cobee Bryant and Zy Alexander.... but I feel like 2nd round is a reach for any of those guys and there almost certainly will be better, more talented, players on the board at other spots. 

 

If their plan is to take defensive line at #30 and wait on corner until round 2.... I think they will have to be willing to move UP in the second.  

7 minutes ago, DJB said:

Do you have concerns with Nolen and how his motor runs hot and cold? 

 

Personally, no. I think his Ole Miss tape is a lot better and more consistent than his A&M tape and I just think there is something weird about Texas A&M Dline coaching. they take very talented guys and make them look kind of average. I think Nic Scourton is another example. You only see flashes on the A&M tape then you put his Purdue film on and it's like "wow". 

 

I understand there may be off-field / personality concerns with Nolen and that might push him down to the end of round 1 or even into the top of day 2. But without the information to take a view on that I have him as a first round grade. 

[Dillenger4]

Try Hendrickson says "Hello".

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

And that's another part of it. Just because they're the top rated prospect doesn't mean that they're going to be the best NFL player. So you could give up the farm for a guy that ends up being not as good as the guy you could have got if you just stayed put.

 

For example, imagine if the Vikings moved up to 11 in 2019 to Draft Henry Ruggs instead of just staying put to Draft Justin Jefferson at 22.

 

9 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Best way to find a blue chipper is in the draft. You take a guy and hope he turns out to be everything you want him to be 

 

The draft is literally a crap shoot because highly rated draft picks crash and burn while great players come out of Day 2 or 3 in every draft, and good teams miss just like bad teams.

 

14 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Yea even when this team has had high picks mostly in the past, the vast majority were good to bust players and more on the bust side. Reason why we didn’t make the playoffs for so long 

 

I disagree that the Bills drafting was the reason why the Bills had the playoff drought.  It was more a consequence of the team philosophy which always put maximizing profits ahead of winning football games, even during the Glory Years.  Bill Polian was fired because he clashed with the finance guys in the 1990s.  John Butler (and a significant part of the Bills pro personnel department) left for San Diego because the Chargers offered him more money.   During the Drought, the Bills never re-signed their first rounders who did develop into good/great players except for Eric Wood -- most notably, Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Willis McGahey, Marshawn Lynch, Stephon Gillmore -- although they did keep some two who became notable busts after signing their second contracts: Mike Williams and Marcell Dareus.  Under Tom Donahoe and especially Russ Brandon/Buddy Nix/Doug Whaley regimes, the Bills continually allowed their best players to leave in FA or via trade and used the draft to find replacements.

 

FYI -- Tre White was the first first-round pick who developed into an outstanding player whom the Bills re-signed since the 1990s.  He was drafted as a replacement for Stephon Gilmore whom the Bills allowed to hit FA (and helped the Patriots win SBs).

 

14 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Here’s my question - what makes you think Carter will be any good.  It seems that Bills fans are clinging to #1 his one great stuff against Tennessee and #2 struggling due to his wrist injury.  I’m not sure we can put much stock into either.  
 

Carter was one of the worst lineman on the defense which is why he was scratched late in the year.  Just like Coleman, I don’t think he can be much more than a depth piece.  Not what you want out of your second and third round picks.  
 

Jury is out on Bishop who made some good and bad plays his rookie season.  He too was injured but at least he was active on game day 

 

I don't judge rookies.  Some players who look terrible as rookies develop into good/great players.  Others who look like good/great NFLers in their first season never ever play that well again.   I'm a believer in giving rookies three years to show who they are, especially if they play a position which has a longer learning curve than some other positions.  DT is certainly one of those positions.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by SoTier

[PromoTheRobot]

On 3/20/2025 at 1:00 AM, Vickveto said:

I said a generational talent. A generational talent plays at a pro bowl level from year one. if it takes two1 and two second so be it. If Abdul Carter is rookie, Michael Parsons, we won the championship. If Will Johnson is rookie sauce, Gardner we won a championship. If whatever DT is playing at Jalen cater rookie year Championship. We already know we can win with this core. No glaring need besides a cornerback.

 

You act like drafting players is like ordering from a menu. Nothing is guaranteed.

[Mr. WEO]

Amari, anyone?

[uticaclub]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

The draft is literally a crap shoot because highly rated draft picks crash and burn while great players come out of Day 2 or 3 in every draft, and good teams miss just like bad teams.

 

 

I disagree that the Bills drafting was the reason why the Bills had the playoff drought.  It was more a consequence of the team philosophy which always put maximizing profits ahead of winning football games, even during the Glory Years.  Bill Polian was fired because he clashed with the finance guys in the 1990s.  John Butler (and a significant part of the Bills pro personnel department) left for San Diego because the Chargers offered him more money.   During the Drought, the Bills never re-signed their first rounders who did develop into good/great players except for Eric Wood -- most notably, Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Willis McGahey, Marshawn Lynch, Stephon Gillmore -- although they did keep some two who became notable busts after signing their second contracts: Mike Williams and Marcell Dareus.  Under Tom Donahoe and especially Russ Brandon/Buddy Nix/Doug Whaley regimes, the Bills continually allowed their best players to leave in FA or via trade and used the draft to find replacements.

 

FYI -- Tre White was the first first-round pick who developed into an outstanding player whom the Bills re-signed since the 1990s.  He was drafted as a replacement for Stephon Gilmore whom the Bills allowed to hit FA (and helped the Patriots win SBs).

 

 

I don't judge rookies.  Some players who look terrible as rookies develop into good/great players.  Others who look like good/great NFLers in their first season never ever play that well again.   I'm a believer in giving rookies three years to show who they are, especially if they play a position which has a longer learning curve than some other positions.  DT is certainly one of those positions.

 

I thought Polian got fired for what he said about the owners daughter. Kelly was the highest-paid player when he came to Buffalo. 

[gonzo1105]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

The draft is literally a crap shoot because highly rated draft picks crash and burn while great players come out of Day 2 or 3 in every draft, and good teams miss just like bad teams.

 

 

I disagree that the Bills drafting was the reason why the Bills had the playoff drought.  It was more a consequence of the team philosophy which always put maximizing profits ahead of winning football games, even during the Glory Years.  Bill Polian was fired because he clashed with the finance guys in the 1990s.  John Butler (and a significant part of the Bills pro personnel department) left for San Diego because the Chargers offered him more money.   During the Drought, the Bills never re-signed their first rounders who did develop into good/great players except for Eric Wood -- most notably, Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Willis McGahey, Marshawn Lynch, Stephon Gillmore -- although they did keep some two who became notable busts after signing their second contracts: Mike Williams and Marcell Dareus.  Under Tom Donahoe and especially Russ Brandon/Buddy Nix/Doug Whaley regimes, the Bills continually allowed their best players to leave in FA or via trade and used the draft to find replacements.

 

FYI -- Tre White was the first first-round pick who developed into an outstanding player whom the Bills re-signed since the 1990s.  He was drafted as a replacement for Stephon Gilmore whom the Bills allowed to hit FA (and helped the Patriots win SBs).

 

 

I don't judge rookies.  Some players who look terrible as rookies develop into good/great players.  Others who look like good/great NFLers in their first season never ever play that well again.   I'm a believer in giving rookies three years to show who they are, especially if they play a position which has a longer learning curve than some other positions.  DT is certainly one of those positions.

 

Mike Williams, Marcell Dareus, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, CJ Spiller, Donte Whitner, Erik Flowers, John McCargo, Sammy Watkins. 
 

These 11 guys were drafted by the Bills in the first round of the drought era. They were either flat out busts or they were players they didn’t come close to being as good as their draft spot. 
 

Winfield doesn’t count because he was drafted in 99 the last year we were in the playoffs if you want to get technical. 
 

The other guys Nate Clements, Marshawn Lynch, Lee Evans, Willis McGahee, Eric Wood, Stephon Gilmore were good NFL players so 6 guys but….

 

They did re-sign Eric Wood

Stephon Gilmore hated Buffalo and became the #1 paid CB in the league. Same thing happened for Nate Clements if I recall correctly minus the hatred of Buffalo 

 

They did re-sign Lee Evans who was a very good NFL player for a short period and the Bills have been well documented they they wanted Ben Roethlisberger badly which led to the ill fated Losman pick. 
 

Marshawn Lynch thought Buffalo was boring and hit a woman while driving so he wanted out of here. 
 

Cant recall why the Bills let McGahee go but overall during the drought they had 11 terrible picks and 6 good ones. 2 RBs, 2 DBs, 1 WR, and a Center. They reupped two of them , 2 couldn’t wait to get out of here, 2 became the highest paid player at his position (Clements), and 1 I don’t recall. 
 

 

So yes the Bills drought did last so long because they drafted terrible and B. Couldn’t find a QB 

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is where you strike into a problem. I think late second is likely to be a bit of a wasteland at corner. In terms of corners with 1st or 2nd type grades I have:

 

1st round: Hunter (if you think he is a CB); Barron; Johnson

1st/2nd: Revel - MAJOR injury red flag

2nd: Hariston; Morrison - MAJOR injury red flag; Amos; Thomas

2nd/3rd: Porter

 

And there are so many corner needy teams I am just not sure any of those 9 get to the Bills at the bottom of the second unless the medicals on Revel or Morrison are so bad that they fall - and if that is the case the Bills won't pick them anyway. 

 

After that my next tier is something like Dorian Strong, Cobee Bryant and Zy Alexander.... but I feel like 2nd round is a reach for any of those guys and there almost certainly will be better, more talented, players on the board at other spots. 

 

If their plan is to take defensive line at #30 and wait on corner until round 2.... I think they will have to be willing to move UP in the second.  

 

Personally, no. I think his Ole Miss tape is a lot better and more consistent than his A&M tape and I just think there is something weird about Texas A&M Dline coaching. they take very talented guys and make them look kind of average. I think Nic Scourton is another example. You only see flashes on the A&M tape then you put his Purdue film on and it's like "wow". 

 

I understand there may be off-field / personality concerns with Nolen and that might push him down to the end of round 1 or even into the top of day 2. But without the information to take a view on that I have him as a first round grade. 

I know we’ve discussed this before a bit but to me you have to take the CB at 30 unless there is just a flat out sure thing DL guy that falls into your lap. Way better value at DL at 56 and 62 than CB 

[Vickveto]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I know we’ve discussed this before a bit but to me you have to take the CB at 30 unless there is just a flat out sure thing DL guy that falls into your lap. Way better value at DL at 56 and 62 than CB 

Sf publicly stated they are in “reset” if will Johnson is there go get him. Two first and a second. Take best DT pick at 62

[gonzo1105]

6 minutes ago, Vickveto said:

Sf publicly stated they are in “reset” if will Johnson is there go get him. Two first and a second. Take best DT pick at 62

Will Johnson and Jahdae Barron are good players but they are no sure thing to be lockdown NFL guys. I wouldn’t give up that kind of value when I can get Trey Amos who’s a perfect fit for the Bills, Hairston who would automatically make the Bills more athletic in the back end, or injury guys like Ravel or Morrison or a man cover guy in Thomas somewhere around 30 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Will Johnson and Jahdae Barron are good players but they are no sure thing to be lockdown NFL guys. I wouldn’t give up that kind of value when I can get Trey Amos who’s a perfect fit for the Bills, Hairston who would automatically make the Bills more athletic in the back end, or injury guys like Ravel or Morrison or a man cover guy in Thomas somewhere around 30 

 

Yep. I like Barron quite a bit more than I like Johnson but he isn't what the Bills look for anyway and I don't think either of them are in that "can't miss, swing for the fences" trade up territory.

[Vickveto]

4 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Will Johnson and Jahdae Barron are good players but they are no sure thing to be lockdown NFL guys. I wouldn’t give up that kind of value when I can get Trey Amos who’s a perfect fit for the Bills, Hairston who would automatically make the Bills more athletic in the back end, or injury guys like Ravel or Morrison or a man cover guy in Thomas somewhere around 30 

Will Johnson is better than good before his injury. He was a top three pick Beane I believe they’ve messed up a few drafts for being too conservative. When you’re picking really late in the draft and the couple teams in front of you steal your guy. go get your first round guy. We are trying to win a championship. We need this CB to step in and play at an extremely high-level.

[Vickveto]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I like Barron quite a bit more than I like Johnson but he isn't what the Bills look for anyway and I don't think either of them are in that "can't miss, swing for the fences" trade up territory.

Will Johnson was considered the best player on a national championship team as a true sophomore I strongly disagree. Whatever corner gets drafted is going to have to be ready for playoff football I don’t wanna hear none of that rookie mess.  the corners we have backing up have proven not to be.

Edited 4 hours ago by Vickveto
Spelling error

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Vickveto said:

Will Johnson was considered the best player on a national championship team as a true sophomore are I strongly disagree. Whatever corner gets drafted is going to have to be ready for playoff football I don’t wanna hear none of that rookie mess.  the corners we have backing up have proven not to be.

 

And with less talent around him he looked significantly more ordinary this past season. I'm a bit of a Will Johnson sceptic though. I do have a 1st round grade on him but a low one. I'm lower than the consensus on him for sure. I just don't think his 2024 tape is very good. 

[nosejob]

 

Grant/ Harmon   Princely   Collins    Porter   Thornton    Ivey

30                         50            56           62           82           109

 

Trade: 2026 1st/132 to Seattle for picks 50 and 82. They have 2 in both rounds and gives them the fuel for next year.

Edited 3 hours ago by nosejob

[Vickveto]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And with less talent around him he looked significantly more ordinary this past season. I'm a bit of a Will Johnson sceptic though. I do have a 1st round grade on him but a low one. I'm lower than the consensus on him for sure. I just don't think his 2024 tape is very good. 

I believe it’s Will Johnson but I honestly don’t care which corner it is, trade up and get your number one corner who is going to play like a number one corner come playoff time. Rookie contracts are cheap and we don’t have much cap. Space.