Free Agency Folly?

[SoTier]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I honestly am not sure what the OP's main point is.

 

In any event, except for Murray who retired due to age and Harris due to injury, all of the players on that list are still in the league and most are signed for above the vet minimum.  So those aren't players who can't play - but they are players who the Bills could not for whatever reason integrate into their system.  There is some kind of disconnect between the pro personnel department and the coaching staff that has persisted throughout McBeane's tenure.  Offensive line (as the OP points out) is a notable exception - I am guessing because Kramer is clear at explaining what he wants and Beane and his lieutenants understand what to look for.  But they struggle identifying free agent fits at nearly every other position group for reasons that frankly are confounding.  It is a clear weakness of Beane and McDermott that does not seem to exist with respect to drafted rookies, whom they tend to have good plans for and a decent idea of fit/role.  Not so much for free agents for whatever reason but it's a material weakness of the organization to this day.  Something about their process does not work.

 

I'm not sure the reasons are particularly "confounding".  It may be as simple as there just aren't FAs available who a) have the skills the Bills need and b) agree to play for what the Bills can afford and c) are willing to play for the Bills in a particular FA period.   All three of those conditions have to be met in order for a for a team to acquire a FA like Connor McGovern who works for them.  Of course, guards and centers don't command the kind of money in free agency that pass rushers or wide receivers do, so the Bills can afford to sign higher level FA IOLers than they can DLers and WRs, making the chances for success among IOLers more likely than among WRs.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Free Agency is for lower tier players and vets who are beginning to age out. Bills resigned Shakir, Roussou, Bernard Gilliam, Ferguson Hamlin, and Allen (again) this offseason. Oliver, Milano, Dion, Brown, Epanesa, and Knox all somewhat recently signed second deals with the team. If you’re doing it right you draft, develop and resign your own players. It doesn’t always work out but the core of this team is made up of draft picks or UDFAs by McDermott and Beane. 
 

Rapp, Douglas, Jones were the 3 starters on Defense who were not drafted by the Bills. 
 

Edwards, McGovern, Cooper, and Hollins were the 4 on offense. Certainly other FA signings play but the core are all Bills UDFAs or draft picks.

 

Even Bass was a draft pick and Ferguson was a Bills UDFA.

Edited March 19 by The Cincinnati Kid

[Puckman5]

16 hours ago, DeepPass said:

Is Free Agency just and NFL adventure to move very average or below players around the League?  So many leave their current teams after failing to live up to expectations for 3 or 4 years with "it just didn't work out" as an excuse. It's like picking from a list of bad movies just to say you went to a show.  

 

As an example, our 2023 Free Agents included Edwards and McGovern who currently start on our very good OL.  The rest of that years class of Free Agents who stayed with the Bills for just ONE SEASON  included:

 

-Latavius Murray, RB,now out of the NFL

-Poona Ford, DT, now with Seattle and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Trent Sherfield, WR, now with Denver and has been with 5 other teams

-Deonte Harty, WT/ST, now with Ravens and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Kyle Allen, QB, now with Detroit and has been with 6 NFL teams

-Damien Harris, RB, now out of the NFL

 

Late in the season players must know their Agents haven't been contacted by the Bills about a new contract to stay around.  It must be depressing!  

crapshoot at times like the draft.  Gimme Ted Washington via FA any day.  Some work out. 

[djp14150]

16 hours ago, DeepPass said:

Is Free Agency just and NFL adventure to move very average or below players around the League?  So many leave their current teams after failing to live up to expectations for 3 or 4 years with "it just didn't work out" as an excuse. It's like picking from a list of bad movies just to say you went to a show.  

 

As an example, our 2023 Free Agents included Edwards and McGovern who currently start on our very good OL.  The rest of that years class of Free Agents who stayed with the Bills for just ONE SEASON  included:

 

-Latavius Murray, RB,now out of the NFL

-Poona Ford, DT, now with Seattle and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Trent Sherfield, WR, now with Denver and has been with 5 other teams

-Deonte Harty, WT/ST, now with Ravens and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Kyle Allen, QB, now with Detroit and has been with 6 NFL teams

-Damien Harris, RB, now out of the NFL

 

Late in the season players must know their Agents haven't been contacted by the Bills about a new contract to stay around.  It must be depressing!  

True stars don’t usually hit free agency unless the player does not want to re-sign

[BuffaloBill]

16 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're aware he just signed a 3 year, thirty million dollar deal, right?

 

It's a complete joke he couldn't see the field for us. But he was an absolute stud last year and just got a massive contract. He doesn't deserve to be on the failure list.

 

This example points to the possibility that scheme and coaching have not worked in Buffalo. One data point but ……

[Matt_In_NH]

An extremely high number of guys singed in FA for more than 2 years are not with the new team 2 years later.  But it is a mixed bag....lots of reasons guys are available.  In general they get over paid.

[SoTier]

43 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

This example points to the possibility that scheme and coaching have not worked in Buffalo. One data point but ……

 

Some fans just don't get this.  Some players are simply best suited to play in only one kind of scheme and don't look particularly good in other systems.  Sometimes it can also be coaching -- not necessarily how good or bad a particular coach may be but how that coach and player interact.   The best example of this is the Eagles LB Zach Baun who was a JAG LB in New Orleans for 4 years.  Philly took a chance on him, and something clicked -- maybe scheme, maybe coaching, maybe Philly cheese steaks rather than jambalaya.  Whatever it was, Baun became an All Pro and was a finalist for DPOY in 2024.

[JohnNord]

22 hours ago, DeepPass said:

Is Free Agency just and NFL adventure to move very average or below players around the League?  So many leave their current teams after failing to live up to expectations for 3 or 4 years with "it just didn't work out" as an excuse. It's like picking from a list of bad movies just to say you went to a show.  

 

As an example, our 2023 Free Agents included Edwards and McGovern who currently start on our very good OL.  The rest of that years class of Free Agents who stayed with the Bills for just ONE SEASON  included:

 

-Latavius Murray, RB,now out of the NFL

-Poona Ford, DT, now with Seattle and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Trent Sherfield, WR, now with Denver and has been with 5 other teams

-Deonte Harty, WT/ST, now with Ravens and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Kyle Allen, QB, now with Detroit and has been with 6 NFL teams

-Damien Harris, RB, now out of the NFL

 

Late in the season players must know their Agents haven't been contacted by the Bills about a new contract to stay around.  It must be depressing!  

There are way worse examples of “free agent folly” during the Brandon Beane regime….cough…cough…Star Lotulelei
 

In 2023 Bills had limited cap space and tried to fill their roster free agents signed to a mid-level or low level contract.  I think everyone on that list besides Harty were signed to a one-year deal.   So while these FA’s sucked it’s not really that surprising.  

21 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're aware he just signed a 3 year, thirty million dollar deal, right?

 

It's a complete joke he couldn't see the field for us. But he was an absolute stud last year and just got a massive contract. He doesn't deserve to be on the failure list.

The strange thing is that when Poona was activated it’s not like he was a dominant force.  He didn’t seem to do a whole lot.   While he didn’t get a ton of reps never really maximized his minutes in Buffalo.   
 

Poona Ford’s 2023 season is an absolute mystery

[TBBills Fan]

Title made me think of football follys back in the day

 

Edit-real football follys are well before the butt fumble for this old guy, but still, let's enjoy the butt fumble as the jets are still the jets

Edited Thursday at 01:43 AM by TBBills Fan

[DeepPass]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I honestly am not sure what the OP's main point is.

 

In any event, except for Murray who retired due to age and Harris due to injury, all of the players on that list are still in the league and most are signed for above the vet minimum.  So those aren't players who can't play - but they are players who the Bills could not for whatever reason integrate into their system.  There is some kind of disconnect between the pro personnel department and the coaching staff that has persisted throughout McBeane's tenure.  Offensive line (as the OP points out) is a notable exception - I am guessing because Kramer is clear at explaining what he wants and Beane and his lieutenants understand what to look for.  But they struggle identifying free agent fits at nearly every other position group for reasons that frankly are confounding.  It is a clear weakness of Beane and McDermott that does not seem to exist with respect to drafted rookies, whom they tend to have good plans for and a decent idea of fit/role.  Not so much for free agents for whatever reason but it's a material weakness of the organization to this day.  Something about their process does not work.

From the OP - thank you for putting my thoughts in perspective!  We pick up Free Agents that just don't seem to "fit".  Why even go through the process?

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Some fans just don't get this.  Some players are simply best suited to play in only one kind of scheme and don't look particularly good in other systems.  Sometimes it can also be coaching -- not necessarily how good or bad a particular coach may be but how that coach and player interact.   The best example of this is the Eagles LB Zach Baun who was a JAG LB in New Orleans for 4 years.  Philly took a chance on him, and something clicked -- maybe scheme, maybe coaching, maybe Philly cheese steaks rather than jambalaya.  Whatever it was, Baun became an All Pro and was a finalist for DPOY in 2024.

 

Exactly -- no other sport even comes close to the volume and complexities of variables that factor into every player's journey, every roster's development, and every team's performance. Jordan Poyer was a good Zach Baun comp back in his early tenure with the Bills (and he continued to grow and sustain his newfound production for a handful of seasons). Those two players probably, statistically, would NOT have experienced similar breakouts if they'd signed with different teams. But the fit and the luck and the work aligned for them and their new teams. 

 

SO MANY talented, hard-working players never see their stars align with such clean fits, such good fortune, and such results. So many never really get the opportunity through no direct faults of their own. Big part of why many of us LOVE the offseason: such a complicated, convoluted puzzle. 

[Thurman#1]

On 3/19/2025 at 11:34 AM, DeepPass said:

Is Free Agency just and NFL adventure to move very average or below players around the League?  So many leave their current teams after failing to live up to expectations for 3 or 4 years with "it just didn't work out" as an excuse. It's like picking from a list of bad movies just to say you went to a show.  

 

As an example, our 2023 Free Agents included Edwards and McGovern who currently start on our very good OL.  The rest of that years class of Free Agents who stayed with the Bills for just ONE SEASON  included:

 

-Latavius Murray, RB,now out of the NFL

-Poona Ford, DT, now with Seattle and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Trent Sherfield, WR, now with Denver and has been with 5 other teams

-Deonte Harty, WT/ST, now with Ravens and has been with 3 NFL teams

-Kyle Allen, QB, now with Detroit and has been with 6 NFL teams

-Damien Harris, RB, now out of the NFL

 

Late in the season players must know their Agents haven't been contacted by the Bills about a new contract to stay around.  It must be depressing!  

 

 

Poona had an excellent year in Seattle.

 

Leonard Floyd. Mitch Morse. There are others.

 

Most of any roster is composed of backups, depth and JAGs and practice squad guys. Why should free agency be different? In fact, it shouldn't.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, DeepPass said:

From the OP - thank you for putting my thoughts in perspective!  We pick up Free Agents that just don't seem to "fit".  Why even go through the process?

 

 

Because Rasul Douglas. Because Connor McGovern. Because Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde. Again, there's more. Because Mack Hollins who was a big part of our success this year even though he's gone. Because Curtis Samuel scored a playoff TD against the Chiefs. Jordan Phillips had a huge play late in the Chiefs game that kept them out of the end zone. 

 

Even though they're not thrilling, every team needs depth and backups and if they're weak at one position they can use a journeyman as a starter if he's better than the best guy they have.

 

And because of that annoying "nobody is perfect" thing, while you get guys like Mack Hollins and Rasul Douglas and Connor McGovern and David Edwards, you will also get some who don't work out.

 

There isn't a roster in the league that has more than about 20% - 30% excellent players. And yet the other players can and do make plays at crucial moments that can put win a game or put you in the playoffs.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Exactly -- no other sport even comes close to the volume and complexities of variables that factor into every player's journey, every roster's development, and every team's performance. Jordan Poyer was a good Zach Baun comp back in his early tenure with the Bills (and he continued to grow and sustain his newfound production for a handful of seasons). Those two players probably, statistically, would NOT have experienced similar breakouts if they'd signed with different teams. But the fit and the luck and the work aligned for them and their new teams. 

 

SO MANY talented, hard-working players never see their stars align with such clean fits, such good fortune, and such results. So many never really get the opportunity through no direct faults of their own. Big part of why many of us LOVE the offseason: such a complicated, convoluted puzzle. 

 

 

Yes.

 

And what SoTier said as well.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:17 AM by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I honestly am not sure what the OP's main point is.

 

In any event, except for Murray who retired due to age and Harris due to injury, all of the players on that list are still in the league and most are signed for above the vet minimum.  So those aren't players who can't play - but they are players who the Bills could not for whatever reason integrate into their system.  There is some kind of disconnect between the pro personnel department and the coaching staff that has persisted throughout McBeane's tenure.  Offensive line (as the OP points out) is a notable exception - I am guessing because Kramer is clear at explaining what he wants and Beane and his lieutenants understand what to look for.  But they struggle identifying free agent fits at nearly every other position group for reasons that frankly are confounding.  It is a clear weakness of Beane and McDermott that does not seem to exist with respect to drafted rookies, whom they tend to have good plans for and a decent idea of fit/role.  Not so much for free agents for whatever reason but it's a material weakness of the organization to this day.  Something about their process does not work.

 

In fairness it happened at OL as well a fair bit. It is only the last couple of years it hasn't. I remember them signing Quintin Spain and Jon Feliciano to be their two guards and thinking "great they are both upgrades but they play totally different styles, what blocking scheme are we using?"

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness it happened at OL as well a fair bit. It is only the last couple of years it hasn't. I remember them signing Quintin Spain and Jon Feliciano to be their two guards and thinking "great they are both upgrades but they play totally different styles, what blocking scheme are we using?"

Kromer has largely righted that ship though, is my point.  But yes - pro personnel evaluation and fit has always been an issue under this regime.

[GunnerBill]

I think in more general, less Bills specific, answer to the OP's point - the fast acceleration of the salary cap and the increasing wealth of owners in the league has increasingly turned free agency into the way that the middle class of the NFL player cohort moves around. As a way to acquire a difference maker? It has limited use. You can get starters, you can rarely get stars and certainly not at the premium positions. If you want vet difference makers now you acquire them via trade. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think in more general, less Bills specific, answer to the OP's point - the fast acceleration of the salary cap and the increasing wealth of owners in the league has increasingly turned free agency into the way that the middle class of the NFL player cohort moves around. As a way to acquire a difference maker? It has limited use. You can get starters, you can rarely get stars and certainly not at the premium positions. If you want vet difference makers now you acquire them via trade. 

Agree. Who are the 3 best players that changed teams this year in FA?

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agree. Who are the 3 best players that changed teams this year in FA?

 

By money it is Darnold (a reclamation project QB starter), Dan Moore Jnr (a slightly below average starting left tackle) and Milton Williams (a backup / rotational DT on the best defense in football). 

 

I'd personally say in terms of guys still within their peak and able to contribute the actual answer might be Charvarius Ward, Paulson Adebo and possibly Talanoa Hufanga. Ward is a CB1 who is leaving the bay area not just for football reasons, Adebo is a CB2 and Hufanga is a good not great safety.  Could throw Josh Sweat in there too but he is again a rotational edge used to coming in after the starters have wreaked havoc. Remains to be seen what he does when he is supposed to be "the guy".

 

It isn't spectacular is it?

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:12 PM by GunnerBill

[MJS]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Poona had an excellent year in Seattle.

He didn't play for Seattle last year. It was LA.

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

By money it is Darnold (a reclamation project QB starter), Dan Moore Jnr (a slightly below average starting left tackle) and Milton Williams (a backup / rotational DT on the best defense in football). 

 

I'd personally say in terms of guys still within their peak and able to contribute the actual answer might be Charvarius Ward, Paulson Adebo and possibly Talanoa Hufanga. Ward is a CB1 who is leaving the bay area not just for football reasons, Adebo is a CB2 and Hufanga is a good not great safety.  Could throw Josh Sweat in there too but he is again a rotational edge used to coming in after the starters have wreaked havoc. Remains to be seen what he does when he is supposed to be "the guy".

 

It isn't spectacular is it?

 

 

Not at all. To your point, you can get starters but rarely stars. It’s the middle class that gets paid by other teams.