So Josh does care where he is at NFL QB pay scale - from Beane

[Einstein]

6 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

So a couple of things-the NFLPA does represent every player, so they aren’t going to let someone take far less than what that players value is. If Josh takes $50-$100 million less to “help the team”

 

This is not a thing. The NFLPA has no power to stop a player from taking less.

 

Brady routinely took significantly less than his worth. Absurdly less, actually.

 

I am 100% fine with the Allen contract. He is worth every penny. But this whole “he gave the team a discount” thing is nonsense. Florio broke it down and dispelled this myth over a week ago.

 

The Prescott comparison others made don’t hold water either. Allen has a $55m/year from signing average. Prescotts is less than that. The misunderstanding where people think Prescott makes more comes from “new money” falsity.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/josh-allen-contract-highlights-the-flaws-of-the-new-money-fiction

 

Allen’s contract is fair and totally fine. But he didn’t take a discount.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This is not a thing. The NFLPA has no power to stop a player from taking less.

 

Brady routinely took significantly less than his worth. Absurdly less, actually.

 

I am 100% fine with the Allen contract. He is worth every penny. But this whole “he gave the team a discount” thing is nonsense. Florio broke it down and dispelled this myth over a week ago.

 

The Prescott comparison others made don’t hold water either. Allen has a $55m/year from signing average. Prescotts is less than that. The misunderstanding where people think Prescott makes more comes from “new money” falsity.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/josh-allen-contract-highlights-the-flaws-of-the-new-money-fiction

 

Allen’s contract is fair and totally fine. But he didn’t take a discount.

It becomes what is “significantly less?” Allen taking $5M less than Dak isn’t a problem. If Josh took $20M less AAV than Tua, they’d have an issue. While the NFLPA isn’t as powerful as the MLB or NBA players unions, they can’t let that happen. It breaks the whole market. Brady didn’t take way less than the market. He took less than he could have gotten but he wasn’t the 22nd highest paid QB.

Edited Wednesday at 06:09 PM by Kirby Jackson

[Einstein]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

It becomes what is “significantly less?” Allen taking $5M less than Dak isn’t a problem. If Josh took $20M less AAV than Tua, they’d have an issue. While the NFLPA isn’t as powerful as the MLB or NBA players unions, they can’t let that happen. 

 

The NFLPA has no choice.

 

The National Labor Relations Act prevents unions from unduly restricting its members from accepting the contract of their desire.

 

The union has no legal authority to block a player from accepting any deal.

 

If Allen wanted to accept a $1 million dollar contract, there is absolutely nothing the NFLPA could do about it.

[SoonerBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Whether or not they should pay them market value is a different question. Teams “being dumb” is how value is set. That’s how it works in sports. The players receive a % of the league revenue. It’s up to the teams to decide how to spend to that %. If Benford can get north of $20M AAV and Cook can get north of $12M AAV, why should they take less? Do you take less than your market value at your job? I moved to this company because my last company didn’t meet my market value. The market spoke and I moved. That’s the way that the world works.

I don't give a damn, do you not get that yet?  Screw em'both.  Trade both and move on.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The NFLPA has no choice.

 

The National Labor Relations Act prevents unions from unduly restricting its members from accepting the contract of their desire.

 

The union has no legal authority to block a player from accepting any deal.

 

If Allen wanted to accept a $1 million dollar contract, there is absolutely nothing the NFLPA could do about it.

The players and agents wouldn’t let that happen. That’s the point. That’s the real world. If Allen took $40M AAV they would cringe but accept it. If he tried to take $20M, it couldn’t happen. It would ruin everything, for everyone moving forward. How could Trevor Lawrence or Kyler Murray negotiate their next deal with Allen making less than 1/2 of the market? The cap is like 51% of revenues so the money would have to be redeployed. That’s just not how it works. There’s an “unofficial range” that all players/agents act within. That’s true in all sports. No one player will be allowed, by his peers or union, to break the system.

2 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't give a damn, do you not get that yet?  Screw em'both.  Trade both and move on.

Lol, that’s what I expected when I heard the “negotiating in the media” comment. It became clear that you aren’t looking for a rational solution, you’re looking for an emotional one. That’s not how it works but feel how you feel. I don’t get emotional as to what someone else wants for a salary. It doesn’t impact me. I want the Bills to win and every single thought on here is through that lens. I don’t care if they negotiate publicly or insult Josh’s mom.  That’s not important to me. What’s best for wins and losses is what I want. To each their own…

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The players wouldn’t let that happen. 

 

Well of course. That is definitely the point (and the one I was making that you originally responded to). It has nothing to do with the union - they have no choice. The players get what the players want (if you’re a top player).

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Well of course. That is definitely the point (and the one I was making that you originally responded to). It has nothing to do with the union - they have no choice. The players get what the players want (if you’re a top player).

Again, yes and no. If Allen was adamant he wanted $20M and no more, the NFLPA wouldn’t let it happen. It would crush the entire ecosystem. Every contract for every player, would be crushed. They’d have to redo everything to get to the 51%. They would step in to prevent chaos.

[PoundingDog]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

As to when Mahomes' contract gets redone.  He gets $56M in cash next year and $53M in 2027.  After that the cash drops to $27M.

That's when I think his contract gets redone.

So should Allen's be re-evaluated 2027? I feel Mahomes will reset the market.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

So should Allen's be re-evaluated 2027? I feel Mahomes will reset the market.

 

He no doubt will.  Allen is getting $50M+ in new cash every year going forward.

I actually think he will be OK until he needs an extension in the spring of 2029.

I expect Beane to start pushing out chunks of Josh's cap starting next year and keep pushing it out through his next extension.

 

I should say the Mahomes thing is the outside date.  He could reset next year.

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, yes and no. If Allen was adamant he wanted $20M and no more, the NFLPA wouldn’t let it happen.

 

I don’t know why you keep saying this false idea. They have no choice. There is nothing they can do about it.

 

If Allen wanted $1 million, the NFLPA could be pissed about it - but they have ZERO authority to stop it.

 

Maybe in some fantasy land, the union would have that authority. But here, in the United States, unions are bound by law.

 

.

Edited Wednesday at 06:47 PM by Einstein

[Doc Brown]

48 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I am 100% fine with the Allen contract. He is worth every penny. But this whole “he gave the team a discount” thing is nonsense. Florio broke it down and dispelled this myth over a week ago.

It's absolutely not nonsense.  He could've said $70m per year fully guaranteed or I'm asking for a trade.  The Bills wouldn't have flinched in giving it to him.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I don’t know why you keep saying this false idea. They have no choice. There is nothing they can do about it.

 

If Allen wanted $1 million, the NFLPA could be pissed about it - but they have ZERO authority to stop it.

 

Maybe in some fantasy land, the union would have that authority. But here, in the United States, unions are bound by law.

 

.

It’s semantics at this point. The NFLPA would pull every single lever needed to stop it. Now can they, as the NFLPA, technically, say no, as themselves, no. Could they make sure that it doesn’t happen to stop the entire financial system from collapsing? Of course. That’s the point. It isn’t that literal. If you think that the league would allow Josh Allen to sign a new contract, making him the 22nd highest paid QB in football, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 Could they make sure that it doesn’t happen to stop the entire financial system from collapsing? Of course. That’s the point. 

No, they could not. 

There is nothing they could do. Literally NOTHING (other than begging/pleading with the player).

They have zero recourse to stop a player from accepting any contract they want. Zero, zip, nada, none.
 

Quote

If you think that the league would allow Josh Allen to sign a new contract, making him the 22nd highest paid QB in football

The league would LOVE that. The league is the owners - they WANT to reset the market lower.

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:59 PM by Einstein

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

No, they could not. 

There is nothing they could do. Literally NOTHING (other than begging/pleading with the player).

They have zero recourse to stop a player from accepting any contract they want. Zero, zip, nada, none.
 

Uh, the league would LOVE that. The league is the owners - they WANT to reset the market lower.

That’s just not how it works in the real world. The players have collectively bargained 51% of the revenues (or whatever the number is). If the league MVP, wants to take 1/3 of his market value, the league/players/agents/NFLPA/owners wouldn’t allow it to happen. It blows up the whole system. Every contract and position would need changing. Those entities, including the owners, would NEVER allow for that level of chaos. That’s the real world. 
 

I am purposely using an extreme example to make the case but that’s from experience. It’s the unwritten rules that would come into play if something as extreme as Josh taking $20M AAV was on the table. 

[Ya Digg?]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s just not how it works in the real world. The players have collectively bargained 51% of the revenues (or whatever the number is). If the league MVP, wants to take 1/3 of his market value, the league/players/agents/NFLPA/owners wouldn’t allow it to happen. It blows up the whole system. Every contract and position would need changing. Those entities, including the owners, would NEVER allow for that level of chaos. That’s the real world. 
 

I am purposely using an extreme example to make the case but that’s from experience. It’s the unwritten rules that would come into play if something as extreme as Josh taking $20M AAV was on the table. 

I’m not sure why this is such a hard concept for him to understand 

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 If the league MVP, wants to take 1/3 of his market value, the league/players/agents/NFLPA/owners wouldn’t allow it to happen\

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be my last post on the topic. 

This is a fact: The NFLPA has zero power to stop a player from taking any contract he wants (above the minimum floor). It would be illegal for the NFLPA to even attempt to force the stoppage of a contract that the two parties agree to.

What I think you are attempting to say is: In your mind, the league, NFLPA, players and agents all collude to prevent that from happening. That is also highly illegal and would immediately trigger antitrust litigation. 

Summary: If a player chose to, he could take a below market deal, and there is absolutely NOTHING the NFLPA could do about it. If they even attempted to stop it, the player could sue the NFLPA in federal cart and win BIG. You can continue to shout that the NFLPA would stop it until the cows come home, but it is simply not true.

Or if you don't want to believe me, perhaps listen to the artificial intelligence that has a database far larger than you or I to pull from:

Edited Wednesday at 07:32 PM by Einstein

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be my last post on the topic. 

This is a fact: The NFLPA has zero power to stop a player from taking any contract he wants (above the minimum floor). It would be illegal for the NFLPA to even attempt to force the stoppage of a contract that the two parties agree to.

What I think you are attempting to say is: In your mind, the league, NFLPA, players and agents all collude to prevent that from happening. That is also highly illegal and would immediately trigger antitrust litigation. 

Summary: If a player chose to, he could take a below market deal, and there is absolutely NOTHING the NFLPA could do about it. If they even attempted to stop it, the player could sue the NFLPA in federal cart and win BIG. You can continue to shout that the NFLPA would stop it until the cows come home, but it is simply not true.

Or if you don't want to believe me, perhaps listen to the artificial intelligence that has a database far larger than you or I to pull from:

Lol, my goodness 🤦🏻‍♂️. If you believe the league, and other owners, would allow a player to blow up the entire, collectively bargained, financial structure, you’re wrong. Normally, I’d say, “we disagree” but we are past that point. There are certain unspoken rules that govern the league. The league MVP, playing the most expensive position, can’t take 33% of his market value, because it blows up the entire system. It makes the entire model crumble. Opposing owners, other players, agents, can’t let that happen. You’re hung up on the literal words and are not willing to look at the practical application. If he took $40M they would hate it but let it fly. At $20M they all have to raise their collective hands because it destroys the model that is working so successfully. 
 

This clearly isn’t going to resonate, so in the interest of the conversation getting back on track, I’ll let it die.

[SF Bills Fan]

He deserves every penny- without Josh Allen we would be on Miami level. Solid but just not there. 

[sirebors]

18 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

So a couple of things-the NFLPA does represent every player, so they aren’t going to let someone take far less than what that players value is. If Josh takes $50-$100 million less to “help the team” what’s going to stop the teams from asking all players to take less? A team certainly isn’t going g to pay more for a WR, DE, LT than they are a top flight QB.

 

Also, this is a business and Josh understands that part too. He feels loyalty to the Bills but he also feels loyalty to every other player in the league. These guys all want to see each other get paid. Josh is going to keep the price somewhat high because that means the next guy and the guy after that will get paid. These GMs and front office people are paid a ton of money as well, it’s not the players job or responsibility to make everything fit under the cap, it’s the front office-so they have to do their job as well 

This literally makes zero sense. Brady took less than he was entitled to for years. A player can accept whatever contract they want that doesn't violate the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The more he takes, the more he's taking from his teammates. 

 

 

NFLPA Contract Negotiation:

 

The NFLPA (National Football League Players Association) does not require players to accept specific contracts, but they do represent players in contract negotiations and ensure the terms of the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) are met. 

 

While the NFLPA represents players in contract negotiations, it doesn't dictate which contracts players must accept. Players have the right to negotiate their own contracts with teams, and the NFLPA helps them in this process. 

 

The NFLPA cannot block a contract thats been approved by the NFL and agreed upon by the player. 

[sirebors]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be my last post on the topic. 

This is a fact: The NFLPA has zero power to stop a player from taking any contract he wants (above the minimum floor). It would be illegal for the NFLPA to even attempt to force the stoppage of a contract that the two parties agree to.

What I think you are attempting to say is: In your mind, the league, NFLPA, players and agents all collude to prevent that from happening. That is also highly illegal and would immediately trigger antitrust litigation. 

Summary: If a player chose to, he could take a below market deal, and there is absolutely NOTHING the NFLPA could do about it. If they even attempted to stop it, the player could sue the NFLPA in federal cart and win BIG. You can continue to shout that the NFLPA would stop it until the cows come home, but it is simply not true.

Or if you don't want to believe me, perhaps listen to the artificial intelligence that has a database far larger than you or I to pull from:

 

Please quit trying to muddle this conversation with pesky facts and common sense.

 

You might as well quit trying to explain it. He could literally be told by Josh Allen, the NFL, the NFLPA, and the Supreme Court that he's wrong and he would still argue that he's right.

 

Personal opinion and the law are 2 separate entities. 

 

Legalities are not a strong suit. 

Edited yesterday at 07:14 AM by sirebors