So Josh does care where he is at NFL QB pay scale - from Beane

[Ya Digg?]

3 hours ago, sirebors said:

 

I don't know if I believe or agree with that. The NFLPA represents all the players. The Bills spend to the cap. The money will be going to players regardless. I believe Josh and his agent could agree to anything they wanted to. 

So a couple of things-the NFLPA does represent every player, so they aren’t going to let someone take far less than what that players value is. If Josh takes $50-$100 million less to “help the team” what’s going to stop the teams from asking all players to take less? A team certainly isn’t going g to pay more for a WR, DE, LT than they are a top flight QB.

 

Also, this is a business and Josh understands that part too. He feels loyalty to the Bills but he also feels loyalty to every other player in the league. These guys all want to see each other get paid. Josh is going to keep the price somewhat high because that means the next guy and the guy after that will get paid. These GMs and front office people are paid a ton of money as well, it’s not the players job or responsibility to make everything fit under the cap, it’s the front office-so they have to do their job as well 

[eball]

56 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think so. He’s the league MVP. As an example, and an obviously unrealistic one, if Allen agreed to a 5 year, $100M extension, the NFLPA would take issue. It throws off the whole market. Now players are entitled to roughly 1/2 of the league’s revenue so it’ll be redeployed elsewhere, but that messes up the entire market. That would create complete chaos in the marketplace. 

 

I think that’s exactly right.  Players have to be aware of the market and not take deals that are significantly undervalued.  It’s a union, after all.

 

Josh did just about all he could to keep the market stabilized and still give the Bills flexibility.  We all know he wants to win more than anything else, and I love to hear a guy who has common sense and emotional intelligence also (the “what does 5M more do for me?” comment).

 

[BillsFan130]

57 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What do you think Benford is worth in this marketplace? Cook? They just understand the marketplace. In a world where, Carlton Davis, Paulson Adebo and Charvarius Ward are getting $18M AAV and Derek Stingley is getting $30M AAV where does that leave Benford? $24M AAV? Is he “overvaluing his worth” if that’s what he’s asking for? No, he’s looking to the marketplace to see what’s he’s worth. Will the Bills pay that? I think so. If he was a free agent today, would someone else pay that? Absolutely. The same goes for Cook. I think it settles at $12.5M AAV. Maybe a little more after the Barkley deal but that feels fair. If Cook was a free agent today, would he get that? 100% he would. We can’t look at Bills players in a vacuum when determining their worth. The market dictates their worth. 

Stingleys deal was announced as 3 years 90 mil- But those are agent numbers- it's actually 5 years , 113 mil. (22.6 a year) As it's spread through his 4th year and 5th year option.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/derek-stingley-jr-s-new-contract-will-be-five-years-113-million

He won't make more than Stingley IMO

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:37 PM by BillsFan130

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Stingleys deal was announced as 3 years 90 mil- But those are agent numbers- it's actually 5 years , 113 mil. (22.6 a year) As it's spread through his 4th year and 5th year option.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/derek-stingley-jr-s-new-contract-will-be-five-years-113-million

He won't make more than Stingley IMO

 

 

So that’s new money. If they gave Benford a 3 year extension at $75M, that would amount to 4 years at an average of $19.6M. That’s a bargain IMO. If he hits the market next year, and is healthy all year, he will get that. 

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So that’s new money. If they gave Benford a 3 year extension at $75M, that would amount to 4 years at an average of $19.6M. That’s a bargain IMO. If he hits the market next year, and is healthy all year, he will get that. 

Ya most likely as the cap is going up. I do hope they sign him to that extension you said- As it's only gonna get more expensive 

[PoundingDog]

As a Bills fan, I don't have a problem because we all know we want to Josh to be the Bills QB until he can't play any more and that is probably more than 10 years from now.

 

As an organization, I feel this is more like a raise to Josh than a true extension because it is only 2 additional years on top of the 4 years remaining. Note this is not adding 2 years to the original deal as everyone noted. This is replacing the old one averaging something like $43 million/year to $55 million/year now. I don't know how many true franchise QBs (Brady, Manning, Rogers, Roethlisberger etc.) of the past had this kind of re-work of the contracts in their prime with 4 years remaining. 

 

Nothing wrong in terms of Josh's play or importance to the Bills in NFL landscape. But would you rather wait for 2 more years and give him a normal kind of extension with market setting deal, which is more of the norm? I guess the questions are first and foremost, would Josh be unhappy and then would it be saving money overall expecting the QB market continue to move up? The downside is that precedence is set. Two years from now, when the market is reset, especially when Mahomes re-do his deal (which should be a new record), would we have to adjust Allen's again?

 

The golden standard to me is still Mahomes and he's averaging $45 million a year as of now even though there are a lot of restructure and something like couple of $60 million void years added at the end. Maybe the Chiefs will re-do Mahomes contract soon, but as of right now, the hard fact is Mahomes helps out the Chiefs more than Josh for the Bills. Maybe State Farm pays Mahomes so much money that he does not really care. Looking beyond Mahomes, Brady probably helps out the Patriots more than anyone we know. 

 

[Utah John]

By leaving money on the table, Allen could have a ripple effect around the league.  Other GMs can look at their starting QBs and point out that Allen is the MVP and is willing to help the team win by forgoing some of the money he could have gotten, just to help his team win.  (I think Brady did the same thing in NE, and he's doing just fine.)  As other QBs look around, some of them might feel a little sheepish about demanding Watson-like dollars, and those teams' fan bases will look at that greedy QB as their team flames out, and ask whether a less-well-paid QB with a better roster around him might have been a better choice.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What do you think Benford is worth in this marketplace? Cook? They just understand the marketplace. In a world where, Carlton Davis, Paulson Adebo and Charvarius Ward are getting $18M AAV and Derek Stingley is getting $30M AAV where does that leave Benford? $24M AAV? Is he “overvaluing his worth” if that’s what he’s asking for? No, he’s looking to the marketplace to see what’s he’s worth. Will the Bills pay that? I think so. If he was a free agent today, would someone else pay that? Absolutely. The same goes for Cook. I think it settles at $12.5M AAV. Maybe a little more after the Barkley deal but that feels fair. If Cook was a free agent today, would he get that? 100% he would. We can’t look at Bills players in a vacuum when determining their worth. The market dictates their worth. 

Cook was tossing out 15mill per before FA, which is well above his worth.  He isn't a 3 down back, can block well etc.  Sorry, not worth what he feels he is worth.  

 

Benford is underpaid, but again not worth what most of the others are paid.  Bills fans have always over valued players because they are Bills.

[Kirby Jackson]

54 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Cook was tossing out 15mill per before FA, which is well above his worth.  He isn't a 3 down back, can block well etc.  Sorry, not worth what he feels he is worth.  

 

Benford is underpaid, but again not worth what most of the others are paid.  Bills fans have always over valued players because they are Bills.

How much AAV would each get, if they were FAs today? I gave you the numbers that I think are realistic. It’s fine if you disagree with the $12.5 AAV and $24M AAV that I tossed out. Go on record with what you think each would get as FAs.

[SoonerBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

How much AAV would each get, if they were FAs today? I gave you the numbers that I think are realistic. It’s fine if you disagree with the $12.5 AAV and $24M AAV that I tossed out. Go on record with what you think each would get as FAs.

I don't care what they would get as FAs; I care what they think they are getting and how it would hit our cap. I would put Benford at 20mil max.  I would offer Cook 9 mil per. He isn't an every down back, can't block, and I don't care what HE, his brother or another team think he is worth. 

 

Right now we have a Guy in Davis who Feel can Start. The Draft is full of starters, I trade Cook Draft day if he still thinks he is worth 15 mill per. And right now I would be he would tell you to take the 12 mill AAV and stick it.  Benford... who knows. He isn't a clown trying to negotiate in the Media.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't care what they would get as FAs; I care what they think they are getting and how it would hit our cap. I would put Benford at 20mil max.  I would offer Cook 9 mil per. He isn't an every down back, can't block, and I don't care what HE, his brother or another team think he is worth. 

 

Right now we have a Guy in Davis who Feel can Start. The Draft is full of starters, I trade Cook Draft day if he still thinks he is worth 15 mill per. And right now I would be he would tell you to take the 12 mill AAV and stick it.  Benford... who knows. He isn't a clown trying to negotiate in the Media.

You don’t care what they would get as FAs but they’re not worth what they think? That’s what I’m challenging. That’s not how it works. What the market will pay IS what their value is. That’s what they, and their representation, will be using to determine the contract. Otherwise, the players won’t sign here. Maybe Benford and/or Cook gets tagged next year but they aren’t going to take less than their value. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:25 PM by Kirby Jackson

[MJS]

9 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

The NFLPA wouldn’t let that happen 

Tom Brady had contracts pretty far below his market value for a long time in NE.

 

It is the agents who would throw a fit, because it directly impacts their money.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What do you think Benford is worth in this marketplace? Cook? They just understand the marketplace. In a world where, Carlton Davis, Paulson Adebo and Charvarius Ward are getting $18M AAV and Derek Stingley is getting $30M AAV where does that leave Benford? $24M AAV? Is he “overvaluing his worth” if that’s what he’s asking for? No, he’s looking to the marketplace to see what’s he’s worth. Will the Bills pay that? I think so. If he was a free agent today, would someone else pay that? Absolutely. The same goes for Cook. I think it settles at $12.5M AAV. Maybe a little more after the Barkley deal but that feels fair. If Cook was a free agent today, would he get that? 100% he would. We can’t look at Bills players in a vacuum when determining their worth. The market dictates their worth. 

 

Yep. I think Benford is a Ward type level player right now and is younger with still the potential to get better. He is already better than Davis and Adebo. He clearly isn't Stingley. So that gives you a sense of where his real market is. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You don’t care what they would get as FAs but they’re not worth what they think? That’s what I’m challenging. That’s not how it works. What the market will pay IS what their value is. That’s what they, and their representation, will be using to determine the contract. Otherwise, the players won’t sign them. Maybe Benford and/or Cook gets tagged next year but they aren’t going to take less than their value. 

That's incorrect.  Just because some teams are dumb as hell and greatly overpay,does not set this individuals value.

 

Look neither are worth wrecking our cap over. So let them think what they want, trade Cook and let some team pat him what he thinks he is worth, just not us.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, MJS said:

Tom Brady had contracts pretty far below his market value for a long time in NE.

 

It is the agents who would throw a fit, because it directly impacts their money.

 

Far below is an exaggeration. But I think he only re-set the market once. He normally slotted in as 2nd or 3rd highest AAV when he got paid. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

Two years from now, when the market is reset, especially when Mahomes re-do his deal (which should be a new record), would we have to adjust Allen's again?

 

The golden standard to me is still Mahomes and he's averaging $45 million a year as of now even though there are a lot of restructure and something like couple of $60 million void years added at the end. Maybe the Chiefs will re-do Mahomes contract soon, but as of right now, the hard fact is Mahomes helps out the Chiefs more than Josh for the Bills. Maybe State Farm pays Mahomes so much money that he does not really care. Looking beyond Mahomes, Brady probably helps out the Patriots more than anyone we know. 

 

 

The Chiefs have paid Mahomes $218M in cash so far.  AAV is not a good way of reflecting how much a player is paid in cash and when the

cap hits will be assessed.  Mahomes is scheduled to get $50M in cash this year and only has a $28M cap hit.

 

As to when Mahomes' contract gets redone.  He gets $56M in cash next year and $53M in 2027.  After that the cash drops to $27M.

That's when I think his contract gets redone.

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

That's incorrect.  Just because some teams are dumb as hell and greatly overpay,does not set this individuals value.

 

Look neither are worth wrecking our cap over. So let them think what they want, trade Cook and let some team pat him what he thinks he is worth, just not us.

Whether or not they should pay them market value is a different question. Teams “being dumb” is how value is set. That’s how it works in sports. The players receive a % of the league revenue. It’s up to the teams to decide how to spend to that %. If Benford can get north of $20M AAV and Cook can get north of $12M AAV, why should they take less? Do you take less than your market value at your job? I moved to this company because my last company didn’t meet my market value. The market spoke and I moved. That’s the way that the world works.

Edited Wednesday at 05:32 PM by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I moved to this company because my last company didn’t meet my market value.

Your last company just saw TBD as your #1 most visited website on your work computer and paid you accordingly.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Your last company just saw TBD as your #1 most visited website on your work computer and paid you accordingly.

You don’t think that they liked paying for 30k+ posts? 🤣🤣

[ngbills]

Look at Brady's contracts. That is what you call not caring.