Bengals extend Chase (4 yrs $161mill) AND Higgins (4 yrs $115mill)

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

It was like asking Dale Earnhardt to win a race in a Prius.  How do you think the Bengals made the Super Bowl in the 2021 season?

 

with the 7th ranked Offense...plus the good fortune of having to get past the Titans and the Raiders before the Chiefs.

 

The Defense improved to 6th in scoring in 2022, then cratered. Compare this to the Bills: #1 and #2 Defense 2021/2022.  After that McD pushed Frazier into the easy chair and took over. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Hard to believe we have a better QB, a better coaching staff, a better owner and a better FO than the Bengals and they’ve beaten KC in the playoffs and went a Super Bowl before us. 
 

I know it sucks having players that deserve 30 or 40M AAV deals. I’d much rather have 20 AJ Epenesas. 

 

Good grief.  Your hatred of all thing Buffalo Bills has worn me out to reading any more.

All you do is dis this team.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

19 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I live in Cincinnati and have to live with their smug fans. Ever since they got Burrow, they have this "us against the world" attitude. I was hoping that Mike Brown's finances would finally break that up, but instead I have to listen to Duke Tobin's "get your own" crap for years to come. Remember that "get your refunds" BS? I hate Burrow's smug baby face on every billboard in town. Did you know that he's "not just your average Joe?" Because Kroger tells you that from every highway in town. I hate that every person in town walks around in ugly orange shirts with tiger stripes. 

IDK man … sounds similar to Buffalo, albeit with different colors 

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Good grief.  Your hatred of all thing Buffalo Bills has worn me out to reading any more.

All you do is dis this team.

I legitimately think that nobody on the planet loves the Buffalo Bills more than me

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You could probably replace those names with all our own players we extended.

 

I know that doesnt follow the exact path of your conversation, but it is relevant to the overall discussion of the Bengals FO/Mike Brown and how they build a team (od dont).

 

To rewind the tape all the way back to the beginning, I think if the Bengals were an organization that, like the Bills, extends players early it changes everything.

 

Assuming they did it the "right" way, they would already have Chase and Hendrickson re-signed. By having them re-signed early, they would have 1. likely saved some money, and 2. at least give the illusion of being proactive and having a plan. So that when they don't re-sign Higgins, instead of looking inept and like they are always playing catch up from a position of weakness, they could say "we have a lot of guys to pay, we paid all the guys in our plan, can't pay everyone".

 

Then, with the money they're saving with early extensions and the money they are saving by being able to choose to not pay Higgins, they could take that and sign other FAs.

 

It's just another perspective on why teams like the Bills and Eagles are doing it right, and teams like the Cowboys and Bengals are doing it wrong.

I think I’m more “meh” than most on the early extensions. 
 

I think more often than not over the course of a career they tend to even out quite a bit in overall value.

 

sure some risk/reward with injuries vs jumps forward but the classic 4 for 50 (12.5m) for cook isn’t a tremendous value vs 5m followed by 15 per (using bar napkins)

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

22 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I live in Cincinnati and have to live with their smug fans. Ever since they got Burrow, they have this "us against the world" attitude. I was hoping that Mike Brown's finances would finally break that up, but instead I have to listen to Duke Tobin's "get your own" crap for years to come. Remember that "get your refunds" BS? I hate Burrow's smug baby face on every billboard in town. Did you know that he's "not just your average Joe?" Because Kroger tells you that from every highway in town. I hate that every person in town walks around in ugly orange shirts with tiger stripes. 

One of the best posts ever!

yep

[Billl]

On 3/16/2025 at 8:07 PM, Warcodered said:

Feels like this team has to be extremely top heavy. Like how do you pay that many skill players on Offense top money and not have massive holes all over the team.

Buffalo just paid $31 million to not have Diggs play for them, and they made the AFCCG.  If they can survive that, Cincinnati can survive paying $80 million for Chase and Higgins.  Every roster problem in this league can be solved by drafting well.  The Bengals have 3 superstars, 4 if you count Higgins.  They are one great draft away from being serious contenders for the foreseeable future.

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Good for the players to get paid. The offense will be fun to watch as always. 

 

That said, is there any QB in history that's been propped up by the talent around him more than Burrow? Going back to his historical season coming out of college when he has Chase and Jefferson to the NFL where he has Chase and Higgins? I'm not saying he's not talented...he is. 

 

But switch him and Allen out. Drop Burrow on the Bills offense and this is a 9-10 win team. Drop Allen in that offense with those weapons and it would more than mask the defense and OL issues and Cincinnati may be a 14-15 win team. IMO

 

Sorry when you have to pay this much to elite WRs you do not have an elite QB. You have Justin Herbert with more talent around him.

 

 

Greatly disagree with what you say would happen if we switched QBs.

 

IMO you put Burrow in here and we maybe lose 1 or 2 more games than we did. I don't think Burrow has been the problem in Cincy, except of course the year he was injured. He's on a relatively poor roster. He's damn good. Not as good as Josh, but damn good.

 

And if you put Josh in that Cincy lineup they win  1 or 2 more games. Their offense is not their problem, 6th in the league in scoring and 9th in yards last year, while we were 2nd in scoring and 10th in yards.

 

I do agree, though, that signing both these two WRs is not a good move. IMO they should have re-signed Chase and let Higgins go, and take the comp pick. And worked on the OL and the defense.

 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

with the 7th ranked Offense...plus the good fortune of having to get past the Titans and the Raiders before the Chiefs.

 

The Defense improved to 6th in scoring in 2022, then cratered. Compare this to the Bills: #1 and #2 Defense 2021/2022.  After that McD pushed Frazier into the easy chair and took over. 

 

 

Frazier quit.

 

Those who disagree have nothing but their own perceptions to back that up. There's never been a single fact from inside that supports it.

 

But yes, the Bengals had a playoff schedule that was an absolute gift for the first two games. And Mahomes had a terrible game in the AFC Championship. Was the Bengals D part of that? Yeah, but Mahomes was missing passes he usually makes, a bunch of them.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Buffalo just paid $31 million to not have Diggs play for them, and they made the AFCCG.  If they can survive that, Cincinnati can survive paying $80 million for Chase and Higgins.  Every roster problem in this league can be solved by drafting well.  The Bengals have 3 superstars, 4 if you count Higgins.  They are one great draft away from being serious contenders for the foreseeable future.

 

Buffalo did pay that dead money for Diggs. Know how much the cap hits for the other WRs was last year? $9,595,137.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/position/_/year/2024/position/wr/status/active-reserve

 

Bills WR cap money $40.6M

 

Chase and Higgins AAV total $80M

 

The Bills are not a good argument for saying that Cincy will be OK spending $80M on two receivers. 

 

And yeah, I get that the cap situation in Cincy is more complex than just those adding the AAVs of Chase and Higgins. Still the Bills don't support the idea that what Cincy did can work. It certainly is possible it might work, though I doubt it, but the Bills situation last year was greatly different.

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

with the 7th ranked Offense...plus the good fortune of having to get past the Titans and the Raiders before the Chiefs.

 

The Defense improved to 6th in scoring in 2022, then cratered. Compare this to the Bills: #1 and #2 Defense 2021/2022.  After that McD pushed Frazier into the easy chair and took over. 

Yes.  Our defense was great against below average in average offenses.  The 2021 season was a weird year where the defense only allowed 12.6 points in our wins (9 of the 11 wins with offenses that ranked 19th or worse in Scoring).  The meltdown in Jacksonville and the opening game loss to the Steelers were the only exceptions. However, in their seven losses they allowed 28 ppg  and five were against teams that finished 14th or better on offense.  Kind of reinforced that this team's defense is built to smother below average to average offenses but struggles against top tier one's.  It hasn't changed much even with Frazier's departure.

 

As for the Bengals Super Bowl run.  The 13 seconds game the Bills didn't make any meaningful defensive adjustments in the 2nd half/overtime and they had 28 points scored on them because of it.  The Bengals gave up three points with lesser personnel were able to make the necessary 2nd half adjustments the next week in KC and I give Anarumo credit for that.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Doc Brown

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 3/16/2025 at 11:15 PM, Another Fan said:

With all due respect why?

 

They helped break the playoff drought.

 

I thought they were pretty classy about the Hamlin situation and if they didn’t beat the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game a few years ago….    The Chiefs would have tied the Bills Super Bowl consecutive appearance record 

They were classy because it would’ve been a PR nightmare for them. Let’s keep it real.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Yes.  Our defense was great against below average in average offenses.  The 2021 season was a weird year where the defense only allowed 12.6 points in our wins (9 of the 11 wins with offenses that ranked 19th or worse in Scoring).  The meltdown in Jacksonville and the opening game loss to the Steelers were the only exceptions. However, in their seven losses they allowed 28 ppg  and five were against teams that finished 14th or better on offense.  Kind of reinforced that this team's defense is built to smother below average to average offenses but struggles against top tier one's.  It hasn't changed much even with Frazier's departure.

 

As for the Bengals Super Bowl run.  The 13 seconds game the Bills didn't make any meaningful defensive adjustments in the 2nd half/overtime and they had 28 points scored on them because of it.  The Bengals gave up three points with lesser personnel were able to make the necessary 2nd half adjustments the next week in KC and I give Anarumo credit for that.

 

 

 

I would too.  But after that he went down with that ship.

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, FireChans said:

I legitimately think that nobody on the planet loves the Buffalo Bills more than me

 

I don't doubt that you're a Bills fan because I remember you posting on TSW for years.  In the past, I think I've probably agreed with you more times than not.  That said, your posts repeatedly dissing McDermott and Beane seem to have become a campaign to discredit the Bills organization.  To read your comments without knowing the Bills record since 2017, one would think that the Bills were a perpetual bottom feeder team with little hope of making the playoffs.  I understand the frustration that not making the SB creates.  It's tough to deal with the disappointment.  I can't watch or talk football for awhile after the last loss of every recent season.

 

However, if your frustration has blocked out your memory of the seventeen miserable seasons of the Drought Era or you weren't a Bills fan back then, let me remind you that rooting for a bottom feeder team is much more painful than rooting for a winner.   The best part of attending Bills games during the Drought was the tail-gating because the Bills discovered new ways to lose.   Fans started thinking about the draft in October.   It was a continual parade of crappy coaches, good players leaving for better teams, trading for/signing big name veterans who either didn't fit or had no talent around them.

 

When McDermott and later Beane were hired, I was skeptical about both.  They have both grown into their positions.  Are there better HCs and GMs in the NFL?  Probably, but not too many.   Neither is going anywhere any time soon.   Make your peace with that.  Realize that this is probably the best time EVER to be a Bills fan.  Get out from under the cloud of anger and frustration that seems to have colored your recent posts.

 

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Buffalo did pay that dead money for Diggs. Know how much the cap hits for the other WRs was last year? $9,595,137.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/position/_/year/2024/position/wr/status/active-reserve

 

Bills WR cap money $40.6M

 

Chase and Higgins AAV total $80M

 

The Bills are not a good argument for saying that Cincy will be OK spending $80M on two receivers. 

 

And yeah, I get that the cap situation in Cincy is more complex than just those adding the AAVs of Chase and Higgins. Still the Bills don't support the idea that what Cincy did can work. It certainly is possible it might work, though I doubt it, but the Bills situation last year was greatly different.

 

I think that Miami shows what happens when a team loads up on a QB and 2 WRs.  When those big cap hits come due, there's little room to improve the rest of the team, even with the cap increasing annually.

 

Remember, too, that KC chose to trade away Tyreek Hill rather than pay him big bucks ... and they won two Super Bowls without him.

[YoloinOhio]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't disagree but the question is does paying Chase and Higgins stop them from adding OL talent? Starting caliber OTs don't just hit the FA market. So if the question was pay Higgins or pay a similarly talented LT, the LT makes more sense. But the question is pay Higgins or save the money for some hypothetical OT in the future... I think you have to just pay the talented player that is right there in front of you. To improve their OL they need to draft better.

They will need to draft and pray at several positions where they need immediate starters who are difference makers. They didn’t improve at all this offseason yet. The hope is Al golden improves the defense but that will be tough without talent and depending on rookies. Otherwise, it’s the same team as last year and they can pin their hopes on a wild card bc they are clearly having to chase a much better Baltimore. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Greatly disagree with what you say would happen if we switched QBs.

 

IMO you put Burrow in here and we maybe lose 1 or 2 more games than we did. I don't think Burrow has been the problem in Cincy, except of course the year he was injured. He's on a relatively poor roster. He's damn good. Not as good as Josh, but damn good.

 

And if you put Josh in that Cincy lineup they win  1 or 2 more games. Their offense is not their problem, 6th in the league in scoring and 9th in yards last year, while we were 2nd in scoring and 10th in yards.

 

I do agree, though, that signing both these two WRs is not a good move. IMO they should have re-signed Chase and let Higgins go, and take the comp pick. And worked on the OL and the defense.

 

Burrow is a mirage of his surroundings IMO. That's not to say he doesn't have skills. He does. But he's greatly propped up by the WRs around him and the fact the defense is so bad they are in almost constant come back mode and have to pass 40+ times a game. 

 

Even Jake Browning looked really good throwing to Chase and Higgins 2 seasons ago. I see people putting him top 3. I don't see him even in the top 5 QBs. 

[SoCal Deek]

23 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Burrow is a mirage of his surroundings IMO. That's not to say he doesn't have skills. He does. But he's greatly propped up by the WRs around him and the fact the defense is so bad they are in almost constant come back mode and have to pass 40+ times a game. 

 

Even Jake Browning looked really good throwing to Chase and Higgins 2 seasons ago. I see people putting him top 3. I don't see him even in the top 5 QBs. 

And don’t forget about his frosted hair style. What’s up with that? 

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Burrow is a mirage of his surroundings IMO. That's not to say he doesn't have skills. He does. But he's greatly propped up by the WRs around him and the fact the defense is so bad they are in almost constant come back mode and have to pass 40+ times a game. 

 

Even Jake Browning looked really good throwing to Chase and Higgins 2 seasons ago. I see people putting him top 3. I don't see him even in the top 5 QBs. 

Give us your top 5

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And don’t forget about his frosted hair style. What’s up with that? 

Ice Ice baby

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't doubt that you're a Bills fan because I remember you posting on TSW for years.  In the past, I think I've probably agreed with you more times than not.  That said, your posts repeatedly dissing McDermott and Beane seem to have become a campaign to discredit the Bills organization.  To read your comments without knowing the Bills record since 2017, one would think that the Bills were a perpetual bottom feeder team with little hope of making the playoffs.  I understand the frustration that not making the SB creates.  It's tough to deal with the disappointment.  I can't watch or talk football for awhile after the last loss of every recent season.

 

However, if your frustration has blocked out your memory of the seventeen miserable seasons of the Drought Era or you weren't a Bills fan back then, let me remind you that rooting for a bottom feeder team is much more painful than rooting for a winner.   The best part of attending Bills games during the Drought was the tail-gating because the Bills discovered new ways to lose.   Fans started thinking about the draft in October.   It was a continual parade of crappy coaches, good players leaving for better teams, trading for/signing big name veterans who either didn't fit or had no talent around them.

 

When McDermott and later Beane were hired, I was skeptical about both.  They have both grown into their positions.  Are there better HCs and GMs in the NFL?  Probably, but not too many.   Neither is going anywhere any time soon.   Make your peace with that.  Realize that this is probably the best time EVER to be a Bills fan.  Get out from under the cloud of anger and frustration that seems to have colored your recent posts.

 

 

I think that Miami shows what happens when a team loads up on a QB and 2 WRs.  When those big cap hits come due, there's little room to improve the rest of the team, even with the cap increasing annually.

 

Remember, too, that KC chose to trade away Tyreek Hill rather than pay him big bucks ... and they won two Super Bowls without him.

See here’s the thing. You’re looking at this far more emotionally than I am.

 

i really enjoy analyzing the Bills. I did during the drought. I do now. 

 

During the drought it was more of “how can the Bills sneak into the playoffs” exercise, now it’s “how can the Bills get a SB”. 
 

I readily admit that Beane and McD are average at least at the NFL level. I’m on record that McD is a top 10 coach and it’s not debatable imo.

 

The problem is, the standard is the standard. We currently have a 1 of 38 QB. We didn’t in the drought. I would have killed for Beane and McD in 2014. I wouldn’t anymore. 
 

I have long believed and argued on here for probably a decade that almost all of your teams’ success derives from the QB. If you have a future HoF QB, you are likely going to be really good, every year. That’s borne fruit for about 25 in the NFL with a few exceptions. 

So when we talk about how Beane is great because of the team record, I roll my eyes. That’s a Josh Allen stat. When we talk about the multiple AFCE titles, I roll my eyes. That’s a Josh Allen (and the other QBs in the East) stat.

 

But that’s fine. Not everyone agrees. Who cares. 
 

What’s even more maddening is the folks who watch this dude “pay” significant contracts to 3 players and two of them get popped for PEDs. Or who watch this dude start the offseason last year with massive holes at WR, S and DT and start the offseason this year with massive holes at WR, S and DT. Or watch him draft disappointments like Oliver or Ford or AJE or Kincaid or Elam or Coleman. And somehow call him a wizard? Whereas I look at all of those moves, “hey, if only one or two of those aren’t terrible decisions, we probably have a ring today.”

 

He’s fine. Imo of the big 3 (Allen, McD and Beane) he’s the furthest from the tops of the league and that’s why I’m hard on him. Because I think he’s the biggest thing holding us back. Period.