Scouting the DTs in the 2025 Draft

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

Their not going to take two 1Techs back to back. They will take a DT and then they will trade up for a CB or vice versa.

Ah, if you keep both seconds and Collins is there, could happen. If they trade up, I don't think they're using both seconds to do it.

[mathja]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

Their not going to take two 1Techs back to back. They will take a DT and then they will trade up for a CB or vice versa.

Grant can move. He’s fine @1t or 3t. I would love getting both these guys. Harmon’s tape is amazing too. Totally fine with 2 big DL out of the first 3 picks. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Target Zeek Biggers just because the name is elite for a DT

[EmotionallyUnstable]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So the Bills have to wait on WR because they are locked into a top 30 (MAYBE 25) WR room? That doesn’t make sense. Maybe they wait because of holes elsewhere (specifically CB2) but not because of the guys that they have. I’d say WR goes right with those 3 defensive positions and DT is the deepest position in the draft. They could move into the 3rd and find a starter there. 

Maybe. 
 

But not immediately. I would not expect a 3rd round WR to come in and immediately contribute given the current state of our roster. 
 

I feel the impact of a rookie class needs to be immediate given where we are. You can frame it based off need AND based off of who is currently in the WR room (this year and next). 
 

All this considered, I think it’s best to punt on any early selections and try and continue to evolve what we currently have while adding a back-end WR who can contribute down the road or immediately on ST. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ah so we now need to adjust our draft strategy yet further away from weapons for Josh to shore up the botched defensive FA acquisitions? 

It’s not adjusting a strategy. It’s doubling down on it. Ever since the Elam draft Beane has allowed need to drive his early round selections. I don’t expect that to change. 
 

The difference now is that it feels the draft pool of rookies plays much better into the more substantial and immediate needs we have on D. 
 

That being said, in a draft flush with receivers, we ended up taking the 8th one off the board with our first pick. Nothing would surprise me. 
 

Honest question because idk the offensive guys. Do you foresee a weapon available in RD1 or 2 that would come in and raise the floor of the offense? More so than a rotational DE/DT or CB2 would add to the defense? 
 

I don’t see how that piece works into our team based off of contracts and draft capital that are sunk costs. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Maybe. 
 

But not immediately. I would not expect a 3rd round WR to come in and immediately contribute given the current state of our roster. 
 

I feel the impact of a rookie class needs to be immediate given where we are. You can frame it based off need AND based off of who is currently in the WR room (this year and next). 
 

All this considered, I think it’s best to punt on any early selections and try and continue to evolve what we currently have while adding a back-end WR who can contribute down the road or immediately on ST. 

Sorry for the confusion. I was saying MAYBE they could wait until the 3rd for a DT that could start because of the depth of the class. I don’t suspect that they will but it’s possible. They could have their eyes on a handful of guys that are available in the late 2nd and hold off. As those guys come off the board, they jump up using some day 3 picks to get a 3rd (maybe like a Collins or Walker or West or Phillips).

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

It’s not adjusting a strategy. It’s doubling down on it. Ever since the Elam draft Beane has allowed need to drive his early round selections. I don’t expect that to change. 
 

The difference now is that it feels the draft pool of rookies plays much better into the more substantial and immediate needs we have on D. 
 

That being said, in a draft flush with receivers, we ended up taking the 8th one off the board with our first pick. Nothing would surprise me. 
 

Honest question because idk the offensive guys. Do you foresee a weapon available in RD1 or 2 that would come in and raise the floor of the offense? More so than a rotational DE/DT or CB2 would add to the defense? 
 

I don’t see how that piece works into our team based off of contracts and draft capital that are sunk costs. 

 

Are there possible weapons in this class? Yes. But the stock is thinner than in recent years and whether one reaches the Bills at a spot that is workable I don't know. I don't get the sunk cost idea though. What sunk cost? One second round pick (Keon) and two mid vet FA deals on career WR3s? That is about the lowest sunk cost in football on outside receivers. The Bills still have a very significant need for upgrades at boundary receiver. Whether the team admits that or not.

 

That said, the strenght of this class is the defensive line and if the Bills came away with two DL from their first three picks I'd understand it. I just would then question why they targeted the spot for two of their 3 reasonably big FA moves this offseaon - even more so given that they botched it and ended up with two guys who can't play until week 7. My view since January has been the strength of this class is DL so look at secondary and receiver in FA/trade market UNLESS you could swing a trade for an elite level pass rusher because elite talent is more of a hole on this team than any single position.

Edited March 19 by GunnerBill

[EmotionallyUnstable]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Are there possible weapons in this class? Yes. But the stock is thinner than in recent years and whether one reaches the Bills at a spot that is workable I don't know. I don't get the sunk cost idea though. What sunk cost? One second round pick (Keon) and two mid vet FA deals on career WR3s? That is about the lowest sunk cost in football on outside receivers. The Bills still have a very significant need for upgrades at boundary receiver. Whether the team admits that or not.

 

That said, the strenght of this class is the defensive line and if the Bills came away with two DL from their first three picks I'd understand it. I just would then question why they targeted the spot for two of their 3 reasonably big FA moves this offseaon - even more so given that they botched it and ended up with two guys who can't play until week 7. My view since January has been the strength of this class is DL so look at secondary and receiver in FA/trade market UNLESS you could swing a trade for an elite level pass rusher because elite talent is more of a hole on this team than any single position.

this all makes sense so I can get on board with that perspective. I also think it’s important to look past this season in regards to positional depth. When they brought in Bosa, many people dismissed DE as an idea at 30…to me, no 1 year investment should factor into how they approach the draft. After this season, we’ve really only locked up Groot, Hoecht and Solomon on the edge. Of those three, Groot is your only true hand in the dirt true 3 down player. At DT, it’s Ed and Carter past this season. Not only would adding a player on the DL be provided with the runway to immediately impact this team, they’ll also be a much more central piece in year two. The class being deep only helps this. 
 

In regards to my sunk cost, I understand it is not a heavy investment so maybe I worded that poorly. What my point boils down to is that Beane tends to like “his guys” and I don’t see him pivoting from any of them and bringing in a WR early especially in a thinner class.
 

Beane is heavily relying on those guys to continue to ascend. I think they’re counting on Keon and Kincaid to take another step. Is this the right strategy? At this point after free agency, it might have to be barring some significant moves IMO

[TheBeaneBandit]

12 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Ah, if you keep both seconds and Collins is there, could happen. If they trade up, I don't think they're using both seconds to do it.

Imo Collins is gone by the first 10 or 15 picks of the 2nd round.

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Are there possible weapons in this class? Yes. But the stock is thinner than in recent years and whether one reaches the Bills at a spot that is workable I don't know. I don't get the sunk cost idea though. What sunk cost? One second round pick (Keon) and two mid vet FA deals on career WR3s? That is about the lowest sunk cost in football on outside receivers. The Bills still have a very significant need for upgrades at boundary receiver. Whether the team admits that or not.

 

That said, the strenght of this class is the defensive line and if the Bills came away with two DL from their first three picks I'd understand it. I just would then question why they targeted the spot for two of their 3 reasonably big FA moves this offseaon - even more so given that they botched it and ended up with two guys who can't play until week 7. My view since January has been the strength of this class is DL so look at secondary and receiver in FA/trade market UNLESS you could swing a trade for an elite level pass rusher because elite talent is more of a hole on this team than any single position.

Exactly. Although I agree with most that the defense needs a huge overhaul, it would be nice to sneak a wide receiver in there somewhere. The thing is though to make that happen we would have overreach considerably most likely.

[LEBills]

Beane was on hand for the South Carolina Pro Day that was chalked full of DLine prospects:

 

TJ Sanders, Kyle Kennard, Tonka Hemingway, Deandre Jules and LB Demetrius Knight

 

Sanders clocked his forty as low as 4.94 after weighing 297 at the combine.

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/news-insider-notes-south-carolina-pro-day-patriots-eye-dt-deandre-jules-cowboys-high-lb-demetrius-knight-jr-191f4a30

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Beane was on hand for the South Carolina Pro Day that was chalked full of DLine prospects:

 

TJ Sanders, Kyle Kennard, Tonka Hemingway, Deandre Jules and LB Demetrius Knight

 

Sanders clocked his forty as low as 4.94 after weighing 297 at the combine.

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/news-insider-notes-south-carolina-pro-day-patriots-eye-dt-deandre-jules-cowboys-high-lb-demetrius-knight-jr-191f4a30

 

 

I like TJ a lot. I'm higher than the consensus I think. But for the Bills he is so reminiscent of Ed Oliver I struggle how you get them both on the field.

[LEBills]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I like TJ a lot. I'm higher than the consensus I think. But for the Bills he is so reminiscent of Ed Oliver I struggle how you get them both on the field.

Yea I’m not sure if it’s TJ or Kennard or Jules that would be the person they were most interested in there. If they think TJ is one of the top DTs in the class - which I would agree with - I think you just take him and figure it out. Ed played 54% of snaps last year so their is playing time for TJ I think

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Yea I’m not sure if it’s TJ or Kennard or Jules that would be the person they were most interested in there. If they think TJ is one of the top DTs in the class - which I would agree with - I think you just take him and figure it out. Ed played 54% of snaps last year so their is playing time for TJ I think

 

Ed played 66% in 2024. Despite missing one entire game.

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ed played 66% in 2024. Despite missing one entire game.

I’m going off this site, which could be wrong or not weighed for the missed game
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2024-snap-counts.htm

 

I think even at 66% for Ed their is still probably space for TJ if that’s what Beane desired

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, LEBills said:

I’m going off this site, which could be wrong or not weighed for the missed game
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2024-snap-counts.htm

 

I think even at 66% for Ed their is still probably space for TJ if that’s what Beane desired

 

Ha, I was also going by PFR on their Ed specific page.... it says 66%! Just checked PFF and while they don't give you a percentage they agree the regular season total snaps was 603 - which is the number that PFR use to get their 66%.

[OldTimer1960]

Just watched Deone Walker vs. Georgia and he is big.  I don't think that he is the power player that you would guess based on his height and weight.  The Georgia OGs pushed him around some.  He has mass, but not much of it is in his lower-half which is where most power comes from and he is so tall that blockers often can get leverage on him.  I saw some plays where he had success using his long-arms to keep blockers away from his body, but I don't think that was very often.  He also did block a pass at the LOS - his height and arm length can be useful for clogging passing lanes.  

 

To be clear, I consider myself a fan, not a draft expert though I have followed the draft obsessively since the mid-80s.  

 

Thoughts/opinions on Walker?  To me, he isn't what the Bills' need, but certainly I could be wrong.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Just watched Deone Walker vs. Georgia and he is big.  I don't think that he is the power player that you would guess based on his height and weight.  The Georgia OGs pushed him around some.  He has mass, but not much of it is in his lower-half which is where most power comes from and he is so tall that blockers often can get leverage on him.  I saw some plays where he had success using his long-arms to keep blockers away from his body, but I don't think that was very often.  He also did block a pass at the LOS - his height and arm length can be useful for clogging passing lanes.  

 

To be clear, I consider myself a fan, not a draft expert though I have followed the draft obsessively since the mid-80s.  

 

Thoughts/opinions on Walker?  To me, he isn't what the Bills' need, but certainly I could be wrong.

 

Yea. Fat guy. Don't love the skill set that comes with it.

[gonzo1105]

4 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Just watched Deone Walker vs. Georgia and he is big.  I don't think that he is the power player that you would guess based on his height and weight.  The Georgia OGs pushed him around some.  He has mass, but not much of it is in his lower-half which is where most power comes from and he is so tall that blockers often can get leverage on him.  I saw some plays where he had success using his long-arms to keep blockers away from his body, but I don't think that was very often.  He also did block a pass at the LOS - his height and arm length can be useful for clogging passing lanes.  

 

To be clear, I consider myself a fan, not a draft expert though I have followed the draft obsessively since the mid-80s.  

 

Thoughts/opinions on Walker?  To me, he isn't what the Bills' need, but certainly I could be wrong.

Not a fan in stay away territory tbh

[TheBeaneBandit]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Just watched Deone Walker vs. Georgia and he is big.  I don't think that he is the power player that you would guess based on his height and weight.  The Georgia OGs pushed him around some.  He has mass, but not much of it is in his lower-half which is where most power comes from and he is so tall that blockers often can get leverage on him.  I saw some plays where he had success using his long-arms to keep blockers away from his body, but I don't think that was very often.  He also did block a pass at the LOS - his height and arm length can be useful for clogging passing lanes.  

 

To be clear, I consider myself a fan, not a draft expert though I have followed the draft obsessively since the mid-80s.  

 

Thoughts/opinions on Walker?  To me, he isn't what the Bills' need, but certainly I could be wrong.

Not what we need. Hed be a liability vs the run and I don't know if he offers much pass rush at all.

[Logic]

I just stopped in to say that I miss the day of having enormous fat guys at DT.

Guys that couldn't rush the passer to save their life, but who were so enormous that you simply couldn't run on them, and they occupied two blockers and thus allowed the edge rushers 1-on-1 opportunities.

I know that the changing style of NFL play and trends in both offensive and defensive scheme and personnel have largely rendered them extinct, and that they probably don't make as much sense in today's game, and blah blah blah...

...but still. I miss them. Gimme a big ol' 335 lb NT all day long. I'm here for it.