Is McD compensating for Beane Part #2?

[PrimeTime101]

On 3/15/2025 at 6:55 PM, DJB said:

Tyler Huntley was a Pro Bowler.

 

Let’s not get worked up over this. 

Tyrod Taylor was a Pro Bowler...

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

You do you, and deny things you say. 

 

"So I do, and long have, fallen more on the side of we lack elite difference makers rather than "our coaches are the problem." Ultimately players are more important than coaches, always have been, always will be."

 

You didn't come close to saying, it's more than just as simple as blaming the GM.  

 

I totally disagree with your belief, that it's more on the GM and lack of players than McD.  

 

Yea if you selectively quote me out of context, sure. 

 

The secknd para of my post starts with this line:

 

"However, it is fair to say that there are always two parts to pro bowl, all pro, top 100 type recognition and that is usage as well as talent."

 

I am not and have never denied that I think it is more lack of elite talent than coaching. The whole point of the post here, however, was that AP, PB and  T100 recognition are not, in themselves complete proof of that in the way the OP was trying to argue because there is an element of usage that goes into players getting that recognition.

 

So yes, I did say it is not as simple as just blame the GM for the relative lack of AP, PB, T100.

 

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea if you selectively quote me out of context, sure. 

 

The secknd para of my post starts with this line:

 

"However, it is fair to say that there are always two parts to pro bowl, all pro, top 100 type recognition and that is usage as well as talent."

 

I am not and have never denied that I think it is more lack of elite talent than coaching. The whole point of the post here, however, was that AP, PB and  T100 recognition are not, in themselves complete proof of that in the way the OP was trying to argue because there is an element of usage that goes into players getting that recognition.

 

So yes, I did say it is not as simple as just blame the GM for the relative lack of AP, PB, T100.

 

 

Yet you took it as an opportunity to agree that you think it's Beane and not McD stopping the Superbowl.  What's wrong with you?  Own it.  

 

I know you said that, that's why I said you did.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Yet you took it as an opportunity to agree that you think it's Beane and not McD stopping the Superbowl.  What's wrong with you?  Own it.  

 

I know you said that, that's why I said you did.

 

I think it is more down to talent than coaching, yes. The opinion is very clear and very owned. To say I think it is entirely one or the other is a major over simplification of my position. 

[mjt328]

In my opinion, Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott play into each other's strengths, and amplify each other's weaknesses.

 

Through his coaching career, McDermott has proven to be excellent at developing and getting the most out of his secondary and linebackers.  He and Beane are 100% on the same page with those positions, constantly turning late-round picks and mid-level free agents into solid (or even better) starters.  Jordan Poyer, Micah Hyde, Matt Milano and Tre White turned into All-Pros.  Christian Benford and Terrell Bernard are the latest stand-out starters.  Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Taylor Rapp were turned into solid contributors.  Beane knows exactly what kind of talent our coaching staff needs, and can find it literally anywhere.

 

McDermott has been MUCH less effective with getting the most out of the D-Line.  Every year we seem to invest big resources into the pass rush (Von Miller, AJ Epenesa, Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Star Lotulelei, Ed Oliver, Daquon Jones, etc.)  But we struggle to get to the QB when it counts, especially in the playoffs.  Our run defense goes through very rough patches every single season.  Most people believe the D-Line is the piece consistently holding us back from taking the next step.  And despite all the draft picks and free agents we have rolled through the halls, nothing seems to work.

 

When you see a talent like Poona Ford sit the bench here, and be very effective everywhere else... 

When you see Epenesa get drafted and then require an entire physical makeover to get on the field...

When you see young talent develop slowly (or not at all), and then become incredibly inconsistent...

You just wonder if Beane/McDermott are on the same page with this part of the team.

 

Maybe what our defense really needs is an Aaron Kromer for the D-Line.

Our O-Line was in a similar position early in the Beane/McDermott era, always underachieving.  Wasted picks like Cody Ford.  A revolving door at Right Tackle.  Now suddenly everybody we bring into the building seems to be developing great, playing strong on the field, and fitting perfectly into the system.  Our running game has taken off, and Josh Allen hardly ever gets sacked.  

 

[Rigotz]

22 hours ago, Einstein said:

Not to mention, that bust QB was pretty good before he tore his ACL twice. He was literally an MVP finalist in 2017.

Anyone arguing against Howie Roseman isn't even worth debating. I'm not sure why I even responded.

Guy is an all-time GM.

 

For a guy named "Einstein" you sure miss the point a lot!

 

Nobody is saying he's not a good GM. I specifically said he's a good GM multiple times.

 

The problem is using him as an example of an infallible GM who doesn't miss. That's not true. Also, yes, he's probably the best GM and he isn't that far off from Brandon Beane. That's the point.

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

For a guy named "Einstein" you sure miss the point a lot!

 

Nobody is saying he's not a good GM. I specifically said he's a good GM multiple times.

 

The problem is using him as an example of an infallible GM who doesn't miss. That's not true. Also, yes, he's probably the best GM and he isn't that far off from Brandon Beane. That's the point.

iMO Beane's biggest downfall is his unwillingness to take big chances. You look at Roseman and how he went out and traded for his number 1 WR and spent big bucks to sign a star RB.   

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

30 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

iMO Beane's biggest downfall is his unwillingness to take big chances. You look at Roseman and how he went out and traded for his number 1 WR and spent big bucks to sign a star RB.   

 

I agree.   He does take risks, like with Von, but he's less apt to try for the risky moves.

[Mr. WEO]

measuring a roster by contests where others vote on the players has obvious limitations.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I agree.   He does take risks, like with Von, but he's less apt to try for the risky moves.

 

See I think Von is a good example of Beane NOT taking risks.

Beane could have traded for Von 5 months prior when the Rams got him. But Beane didnt want to give up the 2nd round pick. THAT would have been a risk.

What happened? Rams trade for him and they win the Super Bowl. We needed ONE stop against Mahomes that year and I think Von probably provides that (he was still elite at the time).

Instead, Beane didnt take the risk of the 2nd round pick and instead took the safer route of signing him in the offseason.

[FireChans]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

See I think Von is a good example of Beane NOT taking risks.

Beane could have traded for Von 5 months prior when the Rams got him. But Beane didnt want to give up the 2nd round pick. THAT would have been a risk.

What happened? Rams trade for him and they win the Super Bowl. We needed ONE stop against Mahomes that year and I think Von probably provides that (he was still elite at the time).

Instead, Beane didnt take the risk of the 2nd round pick and instead took the safer route of signing him in the offseason.

They were both risks.

 

Different kind of risks sure but both risks.

 

I don’t know what to call it, but it’s very funny to me that Beane tried to acquire Sanders, Diggs and Von mid season, was unable to close the deal and ended up getting them all a season or two later.

 

day late and dollar short Beane.

Edited March 17 by FireChans

[L Ron Burgundy]

51 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

See I think Von is a good example of Beane NOT taking risks.

Beane could have traded for Von 5 months prior when the Rams got him. But Beane didnt want to give up the 2nd round pick. THAT would have been a risk.

What happened? Rams trade for him and they win the Super Bowl. We needed ONE stop against Mahomes that year and I think Von probably provides that (he was still elite at the time).

Instead, Beane didnt take the risk of the 2nd round pick and instead took the safer route of signing him in the offseason.

Ok, very fair take.  Probably correct in hindsight. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 3/15/2025 at 9:07 PM, Einstein said:

Question for all: If Howie Roseman was our GM, would McDermott have a Super Bowl by now?
My answer: Absolutely.

Question for all: If Andy Reid was our HC, would Buffalo have a Super Bowl by now?
My answer: Probably 2, if not 3.

Edited March 17 by GerstAusGosheim

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

iMO Beane's biggest downfall is his unwillingness to take big chances. You look at Roseman and how he went out and traded for his number 1 WR and spent big bucks to sign a star RB.   

 

After 7-8 years into his time here, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that "Big Baller" Brandon Beane is actually a pretty conservative GM.  In all his time with the Bills, he has exactly one big draft move (Josh Allen), one big trade (Stefon Diggs) and one big free agent signing (Von Miller).

 

Sadly, I'm also starting to question his eye for top-level NFL talent.  

 

The only positions he consistently scouts well (both in the draft and free agency) are Linebackers, Cornerbacks and Safeties.  Which just happens to the be the development strength of the head coach.  Everyone he brings in on the D-Line seems to underwhelm.  He's had some good moments at WR, but this will be the fourth straight offseason where it's a major team need.  Don't forget Beane also struggled to find good players at RB and on the O-Line before Aaron Kromer/Joe Brady, then suddenly both are a strength.

 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

People seem pretty split I think on who is more to blame for not having a title.   Seems like it's close to consensus that we have top 3rd of the league coach and gm.

 

I still lean mcd as more at fault,  though it's close.  I just don't think he has the creativity at the end of the day to take out top coaches and overall his DEF has been putrid in the playoffs.  But I see the other side.  We lack elite playmakers.   That's on Beane.

[White Linen]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is more down to talent than coaching, yes. The opinion is very clear and very owned. To say I think it is entirely one or the other is a major over simplification of my position. 

 

Stop adding words to draw attention away from your position.  

 

We know why you think it's Beane.

[Mikie2times]

47 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Stop adding words to draw attention away from your position.  

 

We know why you think it's Beane.

 

These are the players we have added via Free Agency and the Draft the last two years. Is thinking it's Beane really that big of a stretch?  Look at this offseason and who we have added.

 

If we draft the same the list of garbage will extend 3 seasons. At that point he is no longer a top 15 GM. You can't go 3 years with barely adding multiple starters and no difference makers. 

 

 

 

[jaybills]

On 3/15/2025 at 5:26 PM, Mikie2times said:

Largely, McD tends to be a much bigger target around here than Beane. Which is what prompted me to create the thread below. 

 

Again, I feel the Beane hype train is off the tracks a bit. The main points of contention seem to be how much high end talent do we have and how much is Josh influencing our talent? While not perfect I tried to answer some of that below as a follow up to the original thread.

 

Pro Football reference tracks the NFL top 100, All Pro, and Pro Bowl teams on its site. The nice thing being its capturing far more players than the usual single team lists. That is a result of pro bowl alternates being included, first team All Pros, second team All Pro's, and multiple all pro teams from different news outlets. As an example how I'm looking at this, the Bills had two Pro Bowl nods from Cook, one from McGovern last year, Benford as an All Pro etc...

 

So while most of you think none of these things happened, some of them did depending on how Pro Football Reference is capturing it. Which also leads to a much bigger pool of players/ more accuracy in the results 

 

All in all in the two years it lead to the following accolades (which could be received by a single player as many as two times)

 

Pro Bowl: 215 

All Pro: 152 

Top 100: 200

 

The Bills are in a 3 way tie with the Jets and Vikings at 19 total. The vast majority of these contributions have come on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

 

The Bills are tied for 26th with 3 other teams in the same category for defense. 

 

 

This is about where I expected this to fall. Which sort of leaves us in the exact same place where we started. Our overall rankings are better than average but well below the top 5. The last two years of AFC and NFC championship games are made up of only teams with a total score of 25+ with the exception being Buffalo and the Redskins.  Nearly all of that contribution is coming on the side of the ball Allen plays on. How much influence does Allen have on Cook and some of our offensive lineman? A decent amount from my view. While Allen covers for everybody to some extent, I would argue McD has done more with less when you look at the best performing teams in the NFL. Those teams just have better players, yet we still keep matching the wins. So again, is that McD or Allen or both? Not sure. But I'm more confident in saying it can't be Beane. 

 

 

 

 

Interesting take. Hard to argue your logic on this. I agree. 

 

I still think Beane is an outstanding GM, as well as exceptionally respected across the league. He's no dummy and he does everything he can to get the best team pieced together every year. The draft is a crapshoot but you still have to hit on your top rounds, which Beane obviously needs to strike more on. That being said, he's aggressive in free agency, and usually doesn't disappoint. Sometimes you get a little unlucky with certain signings and/or prospects. It's not from a lack of trying. We are blessed to have him, in my opinion. 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, jaybills said:

Interesting take. Hard to argue your logic on this. I agree. 

 

I still think Beane is an outstanding GM, as well as exceptionally respected across the league. He's no dummy and he does everything he can to get the best team pieced together every year. The draft is a crapshoot but you still have to hit on your top rounds, which Beane obviously needs to strike more on. That being said, he's aggressive in free agency, and usually doesn't disappoint. Sometimes you get a little unlucky with certain signings and/or prospects. It's not from a lack of trying. We are blessed to have him, in my opinion. 

I agree Beane needs to be better in the draft and finding elite playmakers. I disagree completely with him being aggressive in Free Agency. He is good at finding vets to fill holes but for the most part none move the needle much. If he truly was aggressive he would have made a deal for DK Metcalfe. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Stop adding words to draw attention away from your position.  

 

We know why you think it's Beane.

 

If only the world was as binary as you'd like it to be, eh?